VVEL control unlocked

Mike · 11-01-2012, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Whoops -- I actually meant to link your thread -- D'OH

Looks like I gained 25 with headers, 12 with tune, and I was already tuned before it.

Sh0velMan · 11-01-2012, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

Looks like I gained 25 with headers, 12 with tune, and I was already tuned before it.

Any details on the exhaust you're running? I'm fairly sure that's what's keeping me out of the 340+ club.

Mike · 11-01-2012, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh0velMan

Any details on the exhaust you're running? I'm fairly sure that's what's keeping me out of the 340+ club.

It started out as Invidia Gemini. When I put the diff cooler in, the muffler section no longer fit, so we removed it and put two glass packs in place. Its pretty much straight through, from headers to exit.

Nissanboy · 11-01-2012, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Yeah... in theory that is true (although with a few more mm of valve lift, that means a greater volume of air is sucked in!), but the reality is you can rarely obtain all three in practice without the risk of jeopardizing two other factors: Driveability and longevity.

For example, many OEM tunes run much richer than necessary under high load, and high engine (air, water, and or oil) temps and or dial back ignition advance, resulting in a less efficient burn and wasted power -- but it substantially reduces the likelihood of ping under extreme conditions.

Also, in general, peak torque tends to be made with a richer than stoichiometric mixture anyway... that might not be true with a good DI system on the same motor (or, I dunno, with water injection), but it's pretty tough to gain power AND use less fuel or produce fewer hydrocarbons in practice on a typical port injection engine.

As to valve lift and overlap on this particular motor -- it's all an empirical question. We simply need more data.

I agree with you, just stating that if fuel efficiency went up because of something, doesnt mean hp will go down. But that's factory OEM talk. Once more serious things get in the equation (like high boost or increasing displacement) there really isn't a way to save gas mileage.

Anyways back onto topic about VVEL unlocked. I want to see some more results!

Jordo! · 11-01-2012, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

Looks like I gained 25 with headers, 12 with tune, and I was already tuned before it.

Although VVEL tuning has to match fuel and ignition tuning, I can pretty much guarantee you that's all due to being able to tweak VVEL.

I'm definitely going to PM John -- I want more details. Headers are going on my car this month

Sh0velMan · 11-02-2012, 07:05 AM

I gotta tell you, unless they've made huge strides with VVEL since May, it's pretty unlikely they got double digit gains from VVEL tuning alone.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2

edub370 · 11-02-2012, 09:23 AM

so i'm wondering, if i were to get some headers, and get vvel tuning unlocked, if i could reach 340whp+....

this is some exciting stuff we go goin on

add some jun cams and we are looking at 350whp NA

370Z Purist · 11-02-2012, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edub370

so i'm wondering, if i were to get some headers, and get vvel tuning unlocked, if i could reach 340whp+....

this is some exciting stuff we go goin on

add some jun cams and we are looking at 350whp NA

Add E85 and high compression. 400 wheel. Add better valvetrain once that is possible and proven. 8500-9500 redline, with power all the way to that point.

Super light wheels. Stiffer bushings and mounts. Eliminate drivetrain loss. 425 wheel.

Well... for the cost of going high compression, forced induction would probably be cheaper and more reliable.

Sh0velMan · 11-02-2012, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Z Purist

Add E85 and high compression. 400 wheel. Add better valvetrain once that is possible and proven. 8500-9500 redline, with power all the way to that point.

Super light wheels. Stiffer bushings and mounts. Eliminate drivetrain loss. 425 wheel.

Well... for the cost of going high compression, forced induction would probably be cheaper and more reliable.

For the cost of the "good" forced induction solutions you could swap in an entirely different drive train. That's kinda my plan, ultimately.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2

edub370 · 11-02-2012, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Z Purist

Add E85 and high compression. 400 wheel. Add better valvetrain once that is possible and proven. 8500-9500 redline, with power all the way to that point.

Super light wheels. Stiffer bushings and mounts. Eliminate drivetrain loss. 425 wheel.

Well... for the cost of going high compression, forced induction would probably be cheaper and more reliable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh0velMan

For the cost of the "good" forced induction solutions you could swap in an entirely different drive train. That's kinda my plan, ultimately.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2

well... that escelated quickly lol. i am just thinking for bolt on purposes. heck i hope we can bolt on/tune ourselves to 350whp soon

Jordo! · 11-03-2012, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh0velMan

I gotta tell you, unless they've made huge strides with VVEL since May, it's pretty unlikely they got double digit gains from VVEL tuning alone.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2

No -- of course not. That's not what I'm saying.

To be clear, you can't tune valve timing and lift without also tuning fuel and spark -- it all works together. But my point is that optimized tuning without being able to adjust VVEL would have resulted in lower numbers than with the ability to also tune VVEL.

My guess is, being able to tune all three netted another 10-15 whp above tuning fuel and spark alone.

If Mike had fuel and spark only tuned with the headers previously and went from about 330 to 342 with a re-tune that included VVEL changes, that is right on the money with my predictions.

O&G · 11-10-2012, 03:03 PM

Here is a clip Johnny sent me of him messing w/ the VVEL @ idle/ low rpm,'s...... cracks me up. We are learning more and more, hopefully we will get some good results after the build. My car is down right now getting a turbo upgrade and building the bottom end w/ my spare block, which is the reason there is no exhaust at the moment. Updates when they come in!

Navyboy916 · 11-10-2012, 04:12 PM

Video doesn't load

gomer_110 · 11-10-2012, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O&G

Here is a clip Johnny sent me of him messing w/ the VVEL @ idle/ low rpm,'s...... cracks me up. We are learning more and more, hopefully we will get some good results after the build. My car is down right now getting a turbo upgrade and building the bottom end w/ my spare block, which is the reason there is no exhaust at the moment. Updates when they come in!

I think I just got chub.

Gaston370Z · 11-10-2012, 04:45 PM

Sounds cool! Im interested in that 350rwhp mark like many others.

11-02-2012, 07:05 AM	#261 (permalink)
Sh0velMan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth Posts: 3,349 Drives: Noisily. Rep Power: 20	I gotta tell you, unless they've made huge strides with VVEL since May, it's pretty unlikely they got double digit gains from VVEL tuning alone. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2 __________________ Buy My Car! \| Build Thread

11-02-2012, 09:23 AM	#262 (permalink)
edub370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2011 Location: KCMO Posts: 3,458 Drives: 09 370z S/T 6MT Rep Power: 20	so i'm wondering, if i were to get some headers, and get vvel tuning unlocked, if i could reach 340whp+.... this is some exciting stuff we go goin on add some jun cams and we are looking at 350whp NA __________________ 09 370Z ST 6MT//Injen CAI//Greddy CBE//TP//TSW's//Swifts//Stillen lip//Whiteline sways 326whp/268tq

11-10-2012, 03:03 PM	#267 (permalink)
O&G A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Lone Star State Age: 41 Posts: 1,212 Drives: 40th Anv. Rep Power: 22	Here is a clip Johnny sent me of him messing w/ the VVEL @ idle/ low rpm,'s...... cracks me up. We are learning more and more, hopefully we will get some good results after the build. My car is down right now getting a turbo upgrade and building the bottom end w/ my spare block, which is the reason there is no exhaust at the moment. Updates when they come in! __________________ O&G's Build/Journal <---(1st lowmount single turbo treeseventy) Built Engine Thread 2011 F-250 Build/Journal

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