VVEL control unlocked

Z eliminator · 04-08-2013, 05:07 PM

so what would happen if we tune with the June Cam's ?

JC671 · 04-08-2013, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

I wish there was more public info on the topic though.

Exactly... Don't know why this phase ain't available to users to try to mess with. I mean if companies don't have time at least unlock that portion of it for end users to do their testing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z eliminator

so what would happen if we tune with the June Cam's ?

No one knows yet..... Only three known places to have it installed is the JUN team in Japan which has a complete high compression build, Germany's car which is built but no other updates than what is posted here and finally Navyboy916 here on Guam with a GTM head build but there is no access to Dyno here on Guam and he only gets Etunes from Uprev.

From what I just posted Uprev says they are not offering any VVEL tuning ATM so I don't see him getting any (VVEL adjustments) and even if he did get any. There would be no dyno to compare numbers before VVEL tuning and after VVEL tune.

370zrider · 04-23-2013, 11:38 PM

so... we are at the same point where this thread started.

Jordo! · 04-24-2013, 01:13 AM

Well, lets see what Ecutek has to share on this. Allegedly they can access the VVEL target tables whereas Osiris makes their changes in a more indirect way.

gomer_110 · 04-24-2013, 08:28 AM

IMO VVEL control will be what makes or breaks ECUTEK's chances with the 370Z crowd. I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that if they can prove noticeable gains from the VVEL tuning even on NA motors that a number of us with Uprev will at the very least consider going to ecutek.

XwChriswX · 04-24-2013, 04:48 PM

Well even if they produce gains, I want to see cars that have their tune after a few months, maybe even a year or so to see how they hold up. That's great if you can "re-invent the wheel" as they claim, but that doesn't mean the wheel rolls straight.

I'm not hating by any means, I hope they have figured it out. I just want to see a few rolling around for some time safely before I put mine under the knife again.

criminalntent · 04-24-2013, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XwChriswX

Well even if they produce gains, I want to see cars that have their tune after a few months, maybe even a year or so to see how they hold up. That's great if you can "re-invent the wheel" as they claim, but that doesn't mean the wheel rolls straight.

I'm not hating by any means, I hope they have figured it out. I just want to see a few rolling around for some time safely before I put mine under the knife again.

If they'd work with someone who builds cams there would be no guess work involved. Creating a FI profile wouldn't put anymore stress on valvetrain parts than what is already present.

Jordo! · 04-24-2013, 10:49 PM

So long as there's no knock, no one is revving so high as to cause valve float, and there are clear safe max values to avoid piston to valve contact, at worst they'll see no gains and at best they'll see all the gains I've been hoping for.

I'm hoping they can also confirm or refute whether the Nismo ECU's have same or different VVEL target maps as compared to non-Nismo. I've been clinging to the hypothesis that they are different for ages now with no clear answers...

EDIT: nope, apparently same VVEL -- I stand corrected ECU ; stock ECU Vs Nismo ECU difference

370zrider · 04-26-2013, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordo!

I'm hoping they can also confirm or refute whether the Nismo ECU's have same or different VVEL target maps as compared to non-Nismo. I've been clinging to the hypothesis that they are different for ages now with no clear answers...

That is a good question.

Baer383 · 04-26-2013, 11:33 AM

I would say they are differant b/c I had my SC kit on my sport/touring and now my Nismo and my Nismo make more power across the whole RPM range and over 35 rwhp more.

370zrider · 04-26-2013, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baer383

I would say they are differant b/c I had my SC kit on my sport/touring and now my Nismo and my Nismo make more power across the whole RPM range and over 35 rwhp more.

With the same dyno, gas, ambient temp. ?

Baer383 · 04-26-2013, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370zrider

With the same dyno, gas, ambient temp. ?

Same dyno,same gas,same time of year but I noticed as soon as I started driving my Nismo I could tell it was fast right from the beginning.

Jordo! · 04-29-2013, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baer383

Same dyno,same gas,same time of year but I noticed as soon as I started driving my Nismo I could tell it was fast right from the beginning.

I've typically found in comparing stock nismo dynos to similarly modded AND tuned non-nismo Z's, the non-nismo Z's need TP's to make even gains (all readings from dynojets, using SAE correction, so easier to compare given the stability in dynojet readings across units).

Also, modded Nismos tend to fare better than similarly modded non-nismos, which is consistent with your own results.

That suggests there's more going on than just fuel, spark, and exhaust, but again, what we really need to see are the tables (or at least get a report from a tuner who can access them).

To me, that points to the one variable no one has been able to touch --VVEL.

But, that said, there's less data on Nismos because there are fewer Nismo owners...

So, it remains an open question...

Baer383 · 04-29-2013, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordo!

I've typically found in comparing stock nismo dynos to similarly modded AND tuned non-nismo Z's, the non-nismo Z's need TP's to make even gains (all readings from dynojets, using SAE correction, so easier to compare given the stability in dynojet readings across units).

Also, modded Nismos tend to fare better than similarly modded non-nismos, which is consistent with your own results.

That suggests there's more going on than just fuel, spark, and exhaust, but again, what we really need to see are the tables (or at least get a report from a tuner who can access them).

To me, that points to the one variable no one has been able to touch --VVEL.

But, that said, there's less data on Nismos because there are fewer Nismo owners...

So, it remains an open question...

I definitely believe it is the VVEL ,knowing that non Nismo and Nismo engines are the same.

O&G · 04-29-2013, 08:46 PM

I also believe the VVEL tune is the reason NISMO's have a bit more power. From what I understand the only thing you can control at the moment with VVEL tuning via UpRev is the cam timing. I've had the chance to study the VVEL with my engine builder and tuner, as my motor is being built at the moment. If we could figure out how to adjust the actual cam lobe (as the OEM ecu already does) we could really get some power out of VVEL tuning. It's very cool how the solenoid controls the cam lobe. I want to say it's somewhere around 120 degree adjustment range, less lobe to more lobe. Problem is I can only control it with my hand on the work bench at them moment :/ hopefully haltech or one of these other tuning companies can crack it soon!

04-08-2013, 05:07 PM	#331 (permalink)
Z eliminator A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 1,659 Drives: 370 Z 7AT Sports Rep Power: 18	so what would happen if we tune with the June Cam's ? __________________ 12.343 @114.14 . 4.5 stroker motor is now being built. Dec 1 2015.

04-23-2013, 11:38 PM	#333 (permalink)
370zrider Base Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Mexico Posts: 106 Drives: 370zM6tour12nosport Rep Power: 12	so... we are at the same point where this thread started. __________________ Stillen [gen3 CAI + headers + HFC + Exhaust + UD Pulley + lightweight flywheel] + Uprev e-tune+ PC680 Odyssey battery + oil cooler + MishimotoThermostat = 312whp + 252wtq @1,500mts or 5,000ft elevation Last edited by 370zrider; 04-24-2013 at 09:11 AM.

04-24-2013, 01:13 AM	#334 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 417	Well, lets see what Ecutek has to share on this. Allegedly they can access the VVEL target tables whereas Osiris makes their changes in a more indirect way. __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it.

04-24-2013, 08:28 AM	#335 (permalink)
gomer_110 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Perrysburg, OH Posts: 17,992 Drives: '11 Nismo #528 GM Rep Power: 36940	IMO VVEL control will be what makes or breaks ECUTEK's chances with the 370Z crowd. I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that if they can prove noticeable gains from the VVEL tuning even on NA motors that a number of us with Uprev will at the very least consider going to ecutek. Jordo!, O&G and Z_Enthusiast like this. __________________ '11 370Z Nismo #528 Fast Intentions \| Stillen \| Motordyne \| Uprev \| CSF \| Zspeed \| Z1 Motorsports \| AST \| Swift \| SPC \| SPL \| Whiteline \| Hotchkis \| Bride \| Schroth \| Robispec \| Cusco \| Nismo \| Volk \| Forgestar \| Hoosier \| RJM '17 Titan Bone Stock

04-24-2013, 04:48 PM	#336 (permalink)
XwChriswX WFLYIDNNE Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: In The Fastlane Posts: 50,648 Drives: 02 GDB WRX Rep Power: 451	Well even if they produce gains, I want to see cars that have their tune after a few months, maybe even a year or so to see how they hold up. That's great if you can "re-invent the wheel" as they claim, but that doesn't mean the wheel rolls straight. I'm not hating by any means, I hope they have figured it out. I just want to see a few rolling around for some time safely before I put mine under the knife again. seymore4 and 370zrider like this. __________________ Bonnie - Stage 2, Audio build coming this fall! R.I.P. Abby 3/29/10 - 3/30/14

04-24-2013, 10:49 PM	#338 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 417	So long as there's no knock, no one is revving so high as to cause valve float, and there are clear safe max values to avoid piston to valve contact, at worst they'll see no gains and at best they'll see all the gains I've been hoping for. I'm hoping they can also confirm or refute whether the Nismo ECU's have same or different VVEL target maps as compared to non-Nismo. I've been clinging to the hypothesis that they are different for ages now with no clear answers... EDIT: nope, apparently same VVEL -- I stand corrected ECU ; stock ECU Vs Nismo ECU difference luigi90210 and Z_Enthusiast like this. __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it. Last edited by Jordo!; 04-10-2014 at 01:18 AM.

04-26-2013, 11:33 AM	#340 (permalink)
Baer383 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Lawrenceville,Ga Posts: 4,293 Drives: My foot up your azz Rep Power: 29	I would say they are differant b/c I had my SC kit on my sport/touring and now my Nismo and my Nismo make more power across the whole RPM range and over 35 rwhp more. __________________ 2013 ZL1 754 rwhp 747 rwtq

04-29-2013, 08:46 PM	#345 (permalink)
O&G A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Lone Star State Age: 41 Posts: 1,212 Drives: 40th Anv. Rep Power: 22	I also believe the VVEL tune is the reason NISMO's have a bit more power. From what I understand the only thing you can control at the moment with VVEL tuning via UpRev is the cam timing. I've had the chance to study the VVEL with my engine builder and tuner, as my motor is being built at the moment. If we could figure out how to adjust the actual cam lobe (as the OEM ecu already does) we could really get some power out of VVEL tuning. It's very cool how the solenoid controls the cam lobe. I want to say it's somewhere around 120 degree adjustment range, less lobe to more lobe. Problem is I can only control it with my hand on the work bench at them moment :/ hopefully haltech or one of these other tuning companies can crack it soon! __________________ O&G's Build/Journal <---(1st lowmount single turbo treeseventy) Built Engine Thread 2011 F-250 Build/Journal

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