Optimal ride height for track setup

Hotrodz · 05-11-2020, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corsairprime

I have a 2014 Nismo. For my FA510s I run 27 1/4 in the front and 27 1/2 in the back. Rides just fine on street and track lowered to these measurements. I set the damping to 14 front and 10 in the back for the track and 4/4 for the street. I like the ride softer on the street anything more than 14F/10R the car seems unsettled at speed when at the track.

Just my experience.

You have to set the car up the way you like it and for the tracks you run on. A smooth track with few bumps you want to increase stiffness and bumpy tracks you decrease stiffness as a general rule. I am running with a big wing in the rear and a five inch splitter up front which changes the dynamics for suspension setup. It is a game of trade offs as all cars have limitations. It is just about how much money you want spend on getting them as perfect as you can for your driving style and ability. Many of the best pro drivers will tell you for handling performance you pretty much can't beat a Miata that is well setup and from my experience that is a true statement.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

vq37818 · 05-11-2020, 02:14 AM

If you have a proper thread-into-body coilover, don’t worry about travel within your suspension components. The biggest problem is that lowering our double wishbone fronts causes unwanted alignment changes and limits suspension travel from the front upper control arm to the strut tower.

At stock height, the upper control arm will sit nearly perpendicular to the front knuckle; therefore, the camber/toe doesn’t not change a lot through compression/extension. Lower the car 1-2 inches, now that upper control arm sits at a 30-45 degree angle upwards. With the same amount of compression/extension, the camber/toe will change drastically more. Over bumps, the car will be easy to unsettle because your tire contact patch is diminishing.

Ideally, you would shorten knuckles and get full SPL arms to eliminate this unpredictability (similar idea for the rear to prevent unpredictable oversteer from camber/toe changes when lowered), but that’s a lot of $$$ and work to support a simple mod.

Basically the closer the ride height to stock, the better your car will handle. The alignment benefits really outweigh the slim benefits from low COG. Driver confidence is key. A low bucket seat will also help.

loufitness · 05-11-2020, 07:17 PM

The Bilstein B16's are a thread-into-body coilover...as such, I assume I will not have to worry about compression travel distance and any pre-mature bumpstop strikes. Is my understanding correct?

I already have installed the SPL Upper Control arm. Will that help with any of the geometry concerns of lowering that you guys have brought up?

I will defer to my Suspension Track Shop (Miata Race Shop)...but I would not look to drop any more than 30mm. Given than I am already at 27 3/8" stock....I would drop to ~ 26 1/4" worse case.

Still looking for everyone's input...as I take it to the shop on Wed morning.

vq37818 · 05-12-2020, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loufitness

The Bilstein B16's are a thread-into-body coilover...as such, I assume I will not have to worry about compression travel distance and any pre-mature bumpstop strikes. Is my understanding correct?

I already have installed the SPL Upper Control arm. Will that help with any of the geometry concerns of lowering that you guys have brought up?

I will defer to my Suspension Track Shop (Miata Race Shop)...but I would not look to drop any more than 30mm. Given than I am already at 27 3/8" stock....I would drop to ~ 26 1/4" worse case.

Still looking for everyone's input...as I take it to the shop on Wed morning.

You can lessen the effect of that exponential camber change by adjusting the arms close to 0 degrees, but you will lose the contact patch (positive camber) on extension. I would just lower to the 26 1/4” and get a feel for the car. It’s all subjective, you may not be bothered by it at your limits.

Hotrodz · 05-11-2020, 07:35 PM

So I have found a solution for lowering the front as has been suggested by Rusty, Spooler and vq37818. They are $500 for the set.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

JARblue · 05-11-2020, 08:26 PM

Are those nightlrkr's?

Hotrodz · 05-11-2020, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue

Are those nightlrkr's?

Who???

cv129 · 05-11-2020, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue

Are those nightlrkr's?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz

Who???

Here it is

Saisei Knuckles

In short, he took the stock ones, chopped and shortened them, then welded the two ends back together. Looks like good quality, but the thought of it snapping is scary.

An old timer here did snap an OEM one during a tight curve, car was totaled as a result. Hard for me to shake that thought every time I think about nightlrkr’s knuckle, no matter how much I wanted it.

Rusty · 05-11-2020, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cv129

Here it is

Saisei Knuckles

In short, he took the stock ones, chopped and shortened them, then welded the two ends back together. Looks like good quality, but the thought of it snapping is scary.

An old timer here did snap an OEM one during a tight curve, car was totaled as a result. Hard for me to shake that thought every time I think about nightlrkr’s knuckle, no matter how much I wanted it.

Hotrodz · 05-11-2020, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cv129

Here it is

Saisei Knuckles

In short, he took the stock ones, chopped and shortened them, then welded the two ends back together. Looks like good quality, but the thought of it snapping is scary.

An old timer here did snap an OEM one during a tight curve, car was totaled as a result. Hard for me to shake that thought every time I think about nightlrkr’s knuckle, no matter how much I wanted it.

LOL...I don't know how I missed that thread and to Jar's question that is him. He has sold a number of sets and I have yet to hear any issues granted track session is just getting geared up. I read the whole thread and I follow him on Instagram and from what I see he is legit. He responded to all my questions quickly and in real time.

Lastly, everything we do once we start modifying the car adds a level of risk. Leaving it stock is risky when you are tracking it. Hell ask a manufacture what does off road use mean for a 4x4 truck and they will tell you it is for maintained dirt roads, rain and mud and snow on paved or those maintained dirt roads. Everything we do at the track is about comfort level of the risk we are willing to take.

vq37818 · 05-12-2020, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cv129

Here it is

Saisei Knuckles

In short, he took the stock ones, chopped and shortened them, then welded the two ends back together. Looks like good quality, but the thought of it snapping is scary.

An old timer here did snap an OEM one during a tight curve, car was totaled as a result. Hard for me to shake that thought every time I think about nightlrkr’s knuckle, no matter how much I wanted it.

This was my greatest worry. Putting a cast suspension component through another heat-cycle will make it extremely brittle. He really pushes his car on the track on I’ve yet to hear any bad stories. He’s been testing them for a while before he began to openly sell, so I would assume that he trusts the product enough...

cv129 · 05-11-2020, 09:17 PM

At some point I hope to dig up my balls again and buy a set.

Hotrodz · 05-11-2020, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cv129

At some point I hope to dig up my balls again and buy a set.

I think I am going to do it to optimize my aero setup. May the force be with me!!!

Rusty · 05-11-2020, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz

I think I am going to do it to optimize my aero setup. May the force be with me!!!

Down force.

Hotrodz · 05-11-2020, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

Down force.

Go big or go home!!!

05-11-2020, 02:14 AM	#2 (permalink)
vq37818 Base Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Glendale Posts: 97 Drives: 19' 370z 6MT Rep Power: 9	If you have a proper thread-into-body coilover, don’t worry about travel within your suspension components. The biggest problem is that lowering our double wishbone fronts causes unwanted alignment changes and limits suspension travel from the front upper control arm to the strut tower. At stock height, the upper control arm will sit nearly perpendicular to the front knuckle; therefore, the camber/toe doesn’t not change a lot through compression/extension. Lower the car 1-2 inches, now that upper control arm sits at a 30-45 degree angle upwards. With the same amount of compression/extension, the camber/toe will change drastically more. Over bumps, the car will be easy to unsettle because your tire contact patch is diminishing. Ideally, you would shorten knuckles and get full SPL arms to eliminate this unpredictability (similar idea for the rear to prevent unpredictable oversteer from camber/toe changes when lowered), but that’s a lot of $$$ and work to support a simple mod. Basically the closer the ride height to stock, the better your car will handle. The alignment benefits really outweigh the slim benefits from low COG. Driver confidence is key. A low bucket seat will also help. JARblue, cv129, Rusty and 3 others like this. __________________ 2019 370z Sport 6MT \| Magnetic Black

05-11-2020, 07:17 PM	#3 (permalink)
loufitness Base Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Louisville, Ky Posts: 74 Drives: 14 370Z Pearl White Rep Power: 3367	The Bilstein B16's are a thread-into-body coilover...as such, I assume I will not have to worry about compression travel distance and any pre-mature bumpstop strikes. Is my understanding correct? I already have installed the SPL Upper Control arm. Will that help with any of the geometry concerns of lowering that you guys have brought up? I will defer to my Suspension Track Shop (Miata Race Shop)...but I would not look to drop any more than 30mm. Given than I am already at 27 3/8" stock....I would drop to ~ 26 1/4" worse case. Still looking for everyone's input...as I take it to the shop on Wed morning. __________________ 2014 Pearl White Sport Pkg / Motordyne Shockwave / 25 Row Setrab / SS Brake lines / Motul RBF 600 / Hawk DTC-60 / SPL Upper Control Arms / Enkei RP07 / Hankook RS4 275/40/18 Square / Schroth Harness / EVO-R Carbon Fiber Accents / Bilstein B16 PSS 10

05-11-2020, 07:35 PM	#5 (permalink)
Hotrodz A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: NW, AZ Posts: 9,330 Drives: 10 Nissan 370z Nismo Rep Power: 2684385	So I have found a solution for lowering the front as has been suggested by Rusty, Spooler and vq37818. They are $500 for the set. Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk cv129 and vq37818 like this. __________________ *Fast Intentions TT Installed and Tuned by Seb at SpecialtyZ 610whp 560tq:\|Fast Intentions 3" TT-TDX*\|SpecialtyZ/Fast Intentions 72 Row Oil Cooler\|SZ 6 Puck Clutch & Flywheel\|3GsCustoms\|Z1\|Wavetrac\|Hotchkis\|Whiteline \|Blitz\|Fortune Auto 500\|Fujimura\|SPL\|H&R\|TK\|TWM\|RPM Rollbar\|Sparco\|Next Level Performance\|TrackSpec\|AeroFlow Dynamics\|Pioneer\|

05-11-2020, 08:26 PM	#6 (permalink)
JARblue A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Austin, TX Age: 44 Posts: 36,450 Drives: 11 Z34, 98 E36 M3 Rep Power: 2684441	Are those nightlrkr's? cv129 likes this. __________________ 2011 370Z 6MT Sport Gun Metallic \| ARC \| CJM \| Ecutek \| FI \| Fujimura \| R2C \| SPL \| Stillen \| TWM \| Z1 \| ZSpeed \|

05-11-2020, 09:17 PM	#12 (permalink)
cv129 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,270 Drives: 09 Nismo, 16 Nismo Rep Power: 163996	At some point I hope to dig up my balls again and buy a set. JARblue, Hotrodz and Spooler like this. __________________ Setrab \| RE-71 \| SPL \| JRZ \| Nismo \| ARK \| Whiteline \| RacingBrake \| CJM Oil Pan \| Ti shield

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