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Lapping a 3.7L vs 6.2L

Had my 2nd track day withe the Camaro ('18 SS 1LE). - Comparing 2 different cars on the same track with the same driver gives the following results: 370z lap

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Old 05-08-2019, 02:14 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Smile Lapping a 3.7L vs 6.2L

Had my 2nd track day withe the Camaro ('18 SS 1LE).
- Comparing 2 different cars on the same track with the same driver gives the following results:

370z lap time: 2:52.65
Camaro lap time: 2:50.62
Z06 vette lap time: 2:42.xx (friend's time for comparison)

So let's see here, i have:
+120 hp
+180 ft/lbs
+best rear diff ever

And i only shaved 2 seconds off the 370z time over a 3.56 mile road course. Perhaps there are some gains to be had with additional #drivermod.

The camaro could be tracked from the factory.
I spent $8,000 making the Z trackable.

Draw thine own conclusions.

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Old 05-08-2019, 02:30 PM   #2 (permalink)
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There still remains a lot of driver factors not brought into this equation. The equipment is 50% of the race.
I got in a Z and mastered it in a month. The camaro being so wide... You have to be Carmack the great to see some corners. So it took me about 6 months to understand my front end. And on track you're fighting against torque in the camaro if you're not good at modulating power. It will be easy to over accelerate in corners if you don't get practice. The Z was easy from day one. Torque isn't challenging at all in a Z. There's no real skill needed on the pedal... But the Z is more front heavy than the camaro which can make it sloppy coming out a turn. But say... If you have a seasoned camaro driver? These handicaps can be easily overcome. It just takes more time to master a camaro powerband characteristics.
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Old 05-08-2019, 03:19 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Very true... there's a lot of learnin' to be done with the Extra torque.

The Nissan kinda just accepted whatever throttle inputs.
The Camaro can blow the tires off whenever i want, lol.
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Old 05-08-2019, 03:35 PM   #4 (permalink)
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It's going to depend a lot on the nature of the track. Curvy, technical circuit vs lots of straights. No doubt that horsepower can make even a mediocre driver look good whereas it takes a lot of finesse to extract the best times from a lower HP (and low torque) car (not saying bad of you, just that I've seen Miatas lap 911's on track before - you know what I mean).

I guess a cost comparison between the two (including the purchase prices, and mods on the Z) might be in order.

Also, the running costs. Not really going to be able to tell without a year or more's worth of data on each car. But IMHO, I'd leave 2 seconds on the table when it is only open lapping / HPDE if it meant I could do it at a considerably lower cost. 2 seconds is nothing that better driving cannot pick up (unless you are already Lewis Hamilton, in which case, glad to make your acquaintance). And the satisfaction is greater from a well-driven lap vs a well purchased car. Obviously, both would be even better.

Curious how this comparison would play out, though.

I track the 4C and will get 1,000 Km of track time out of a set of semi-slicks (that's good) and probably 2-1/2 to 3x that in front brakes. The rear brakes are just for decoration on that car and I don't expect to ever have to change the pads LOL. I can run 120Km on the track for less than $60 in fuel (and our gas is about US$4.20 per gallon for premium here) whereas my 911 and C7 buddies run nearly 2x that much. Haven't needed to rebuild callipers or replace rotors yet in 4 years. So far, no indication as to the cost of more extensive replacements (the dual clutch won't be cheap).

I know some people who have tracked a Giulia Q, and they report that it's easy to drive off a brand new set of tires and brakes in one day!!! HP + weight - can be both friend and foe. Would be very informative to know how the Camaro (and Corvette) fare.

There are C7's which blow my doors off, but they also end the session early or shorten their day because they don't want to overheat the car, overuse the brakes, or replace those wide-*** tires (his fronts are bigger than my rears!) too soon. To each their own, but I cannot help but think that I'm having more fun than they are!
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:15 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I'd be curious to know if you spent the difference on the Z as to how much the camaro cost would it lap around the same? Assuming your Z was around 32k + 8k to make it "trackable" (what the hell does that even mean?) and the camaro was 50k, would 10k in mods give you the two additional seconds?
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Old 05-09-2019, 08:32 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBacon View Post
I'd be curious to know if you spent the difference on the Z as to how much the camaro cost would it lap around the same? Assuming your Z was around 32k + 8k to make it "trackable" (what the hell does that even mean?) and the camaro was 50k, would 10k in mods give you the two additional seconds?
Make the Z trackable means, add:
  • Track wheels
  • Track Tires
  • Track Brakes
  • Racing Brake fluid
  • Upgraded shocks
  • Upgraded sway bar
  • Brake Ducting
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Old 05-09-2019, 08:38 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Lapping a 3.7L vs 6.2L

A factory stock Nismo would do pretty good.


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Old 05-09-2019, 10:07 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Ask Car and Driver how the OEM brakes are.

Article Link
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Old 05-09-2019, 11:34 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osbornsm View Post
Make the Z trackable means, add:
  • Track wheels
  • Track Tires
  • Track Brakes
  • Racing Brake fluid
  • Upgraded shocks
  • Upgraded sway bar
  • Brake Ducting
Quote:
Originally Posted by osbornsm View Post
Ask Car and Driver how the OEM brakes are.

Article Link
I wouldn't seriously track any car with stock (street) brake pads. They are spec'ed with dust and noise in mind, not fade resistance. They are meant for city traffic, and need to work at -20 degrees. In traffic, these seldom get up to the kind of temperatures that track pads need in order to start working. These are life safety devices - even moreso on the racetrack.

Even performance pads come in many, many different flavours - for auto-cross and light lapping days, sprint, full on race, and even endurance. These are not one-size-fits-all, and very few overlap well with regular street use. Especially if you don't like squeal, or cleaning your front wheels every day. And if you like to consistently make that stop sign at the end of your street on cool mornings!

Cannot fathom how Car and Driver wouldn't figure this out. As the manufacturer, I'd just shrug my shoulders as well, and hand them the bill!
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Old 05-09-2019, 01:45 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Anyway, you gonna treat us to some video / pix of your latest tracking experience, or what???
:-)
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Old 05-09-2019, 03:45 PM   #11 (permalink)
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It quits being about the car at some point and all about the driver. I see 220whp S2ks blow the doors off Camaros, Mustangs and Corvettes. The track has a lot of influence over outcomes as well. Momentum tracks are equalizers for lower horsepower cars. I have seen Eagle blow the doors off said Camaros and run with 1le ZL1s. Driver mod rules. I have a video of me at Buttonwillow Raceway which is a fairly high speed track in my Miata continually running down a guy in an SS Camaro. He would blow my doors off down the straight aways and in no less than two corners I would catch him. Driver mod rules!!!

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Old 05-09-2019, 04:33 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Old 05-09-2019, 04:34 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Old 05-09-2019, 07:49 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZCanadian View Post
I wouldn't seriously track any car with stock (street) brake pads. They are spec'ed with dust and noise in mind, not fade resistance. They are meant for city traffic, and need to work at -20 degrees. In traffic, these seldom get up to the kind of temperatures that track pads need in order to start working. These are life safety devices - even moreso on the racetrack.

Even performance pads come in many, many different flavours - for auto-cross and light lapping days, sprint, full on race, and even endurance. These are not one-size-fits-all, and very few overlap well with regular street use. Especially if you don't like squeal, or cleaning your front wheels every day. And if you like to consistently make that stop sign at the end of your street on cool mornings!

Cannot fathom how Car and Driver wouldn't figure this out. As the manufacturer, I'd just shrug my shoulders as well, and hand them the bill!

I run on Carbotech XP8's year around. No issues. Don't think you know much about running race pads on the streets. The end of your street is not an issue. The problem comes when doing interstate driving in a cold rain. That is when you need to tap the brakes every now and then to keep heat in the pads/rotors. I have done it for years. Who cares about brake dust. I prefer to stop. Loose your brakes in the triple digits once and you will make adjustments to your opinion.
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Old 05-09-2019, 08:02 PM   #15 (permalink)
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