VK Swap Discussion...

SS_Firehawk · 05-05-2013, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullitt@UAMotorsports

I have already been in talks with Sam

I just don't want to be a first adopter again!!!! Lol. I love the Z as a car and I think we would be looking at the following items.

Engine mounts
Engine harness
Sensors
And miscellaneous items

You can be the next guy haha, Who knows, when you do actually go through with it, they might have everything ironed out. What I would do for a M56 engine in my Z... Slap some bolt ons, tune it and call it a day.

Rusty · 05-05-2013, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSA0890

I would want to use the VK50VE if Nissan V8s were the only option. Otherwise LS3 for a budget build or a built LS7 for all out power

Bad choice in my opinion. VVEL for one thing. Plus it's too tall.

The VK50VE is a 5.0 L V8 engine with 390 hp @6500 rpm and 500 N·m (370 lb·ft) @4400 rpm and redline is at 6800 rpm. Bore x stroke (mm) are 95.5 x 87.7 and compression ratio is 10.9:1. It has Nissans VVEL technology.[4]

Applications:

2009–present Infiniti FX50

That's a tall motor!

SS_Firehawk · 05-05-2013, 09:24 PM

Our motors are pretty tall too. I still prefer the VK56VD, but I'm sure the external dimensions are similar to the VK50VE

bullitt5897 · 05-05-2013, 09:33 PM

The idea for using the VD version was to keep things as simple and direct swappable as possible. The DE has been proven to workin the 350 and drift 370z but you have to gut everything to make it happy.

Now, short stroking the motor while limiting the volume and travel wouldn't it also leave the motor more liable for a bent of torqued rod? My thoughts were to limit the amount of mass being propelled... Most of the time when a motor drops a rod it's usually from the sudden deacceleration of the piston head... Make that smaller and lighter and your rods and pins are less likely to fatigue and break. However, increasing rpm will create more friction and heat which could lead to burnt piston rings and oil consumption...

Also by deboring the motor you can run a flat plane crank without balancing shafts... You are effectively under the 2.5L per bank magic number where you are not getting too much vibration or harmonics from the opposing block.

BGTV8 · 05-05-2013, 09:49 PM

Talk to Kelly Racing in Braeside, Melbourne (aka Nissan Motorpsorts Australia) about a 640hp VK56 V8Supercar engine .... won;t cost much (....... you might get change from 70-grand ..).

RB

1slow370 · 05-05-2013, 10:28 PM

the flatplane cranks, destroking, all that fun kind of stuff isn't as simple as rod ratios, or keeping under a certain displacement, up in those revs now your changing cylinder wall oiling, required weights, bearing loads, heavily increasin second order harmonics, it's crazy talk if your not looking to spend more than double the price of the car just to develop a block. not to mention now you need to change all the cam profiles spring rates, the timing chain tensioner force, as well as guide placement, it takes race companies years to test and develope something like that, thats why you;ll never see it for us, not enough volume nor money in our market for that. you're best bet would be trying to buy one of the australian v8 supercar motors from a team and rebuild it. even then it's going to cost you buttloads. If this where an ls or an old 350 then the parts are out there but there are over 10million chevy 350's made so the market is HUGE. an old race motor is going to be the best bet for the one or two guys who want and can afford to get a 9000rpm nissan v8 making over 600hp na. look at the falconer engines its only remotely affordable way to get something like that and look at what those cost (epic god awesome bitchin level 11 tho lol)Welcome to Ryan Falconer Racing Engines! - IRL Street V8 FAQ

I'm sure something is coming for the rest of us who don't have THAT kind of change lying around

Rusty · 05-05-2013, 11:11 PM

If you got cubic dollars, you can do anything you want. There is something out there for everybody. It's just a matter of finding it. LOL Changing the bore and stroke. Different strokes for different folks. LOL

1slow370 · 05-06-2013, 12:33 AM

true i said a couple people could do this so heres an idea they should start a group buy thread i'm sure if 15 people got together in the "I want to spend 80,000 for just the motor" thread a race company would take you up on it. If we want it to happen we need at least that.

Edit: Not trying to be pessimistic or anything, that is really the least it would take if you want a new supermotor. otherwise only option like i said is to buy a class racing engine, either the menard racing corr motor or the Australian motor. They could always try the mp4-12c m838t that is basically an new old nissan irl vrh35

IDZRVIT · 05-06-2013, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGTV8

Talk to Kelly Racing in Braeside, Melbourne (aka Nissan Motorpsorts Australia) about a 640hp VK56 V8Supercar engine .... won;t cost much (....... you might get change from 70-grand ..).

RB

Or take the cheap route and buy a 427 sbc, mechanical roller cam, all forged and get +600 HP and rev to +7000 for $10K. Either way, for this kind of power you'll need to beef up everything aft of the crank.

Oh, and you can tune the sbc yourself which is a helluva lot easier than a VK.

1slow370 · 05-06-2013, 02:25 PM

everything aft of the crank? why? or drivetrain is stout as it comes so far as power capacity goes. 700+ is not an issue for the trans and certainly not the diff.

IDZRVIT · 05-06-2013, 05:25 PM

You can verify this? The autos don't appear to be all that stout.

CSA0890 · 05-06-2013, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IDZRVIT

You can verify this? The autos don't appear to be all that stout.

There are now several people with upwards of 450-500hp with no issues. A lot of trouble can be avoided increasing line pressures and not going WOT in 5-7 since the clutches in those gears are small.
Of course for all out power GTMs Stage 4 would be a necessity I think its like 8k

1slow370 · 05-06-2013, 06:23 PM

the manual is i could care less about all automatics. Nissan has been building beefy manuals every since the z32

bullitt5897 · 05-06-2013, 06:51 PM

Guys remember it is not HP that kills a transmission it is TQ...

1slow370 · 05-10-2013, 10:20 PM

yeah and how much torque did your car make last time it was dyno'd?

Edit: a quick look at the MAF thread says 710ftlbs.

05-05-2013, 09:24 PM	#18 (permalink)
SS_Firehawk Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Tampa Posts: 4,142 Drives: 13' Magma Red Nismo Rep Power: 7334	Our motors are pretty tall too. I still prefer the VK56VD, but I'm sure the external dimensions are similar to the VK50VE __________________ Old Car:GTM TSC'd 550whp / 410lbft tq @ 11.88PSI New Car: Under Construction

05-05-2013, 09:33 PM	#19 (permalink)
bullitt5897 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North GA Posts: 6,831 Drives: Twin Turbo Z34 Rep Power: 3682	The idea for using the VD version was to keep things as simple and direct swappable as possible. The DE has been proven to workin the 350 and drift 370z but you have to gut everything to make it happy. Now, short stroking the motor while limiting the volume and travel wouldn't it also leave the motor more liable for a bent of torqued rod? My thoughts were to limit the amount of mass being propelled... Most of the time when a motor drops a rod it's usually from the sudden deacceleration of the piston head... Make that smaller and lighter and your rods and pins are less likely to fatigue and break. However, increasing rpm will create more friction and heat which could lead to burnt piston rings and oil consumption... Also by deboring the motor you can run a flat plane crank without balancing shafts... You are effectively under the 2.5L per bank magic number where you are not getting too much vibration or harmonics from the opposing block. __________________ *Shop Cars: 2013 318whp Nismo VspecII 370z SOLD, 2009 1000hp+ 93oct 4.0L TT 370z Fast Intentions STAGE 4 #054*

05-05-2013, 10:28 PM	#21 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7250	the flatplane cranks, destroking, all that fun kind of stuff isn't as simple as rod ratios, or keeping under a certain displacement, up in those revs now your changing cylinder wall oiling, required weights, bearing loads, heavily increasin second order harmonics, it's crazy talk if your not looking to spend more than double the price of the car just to develop a block. not to mention now you need to change all the cam profiles spring rates, the timing chain tensioner force, as well as guide placement, it takes race companies years to test and develope something like that, thats why you;ll never see it for us, not enough volume nor money in our market for that. you're best bet would be trying to buy one of the australian v8 supercar motors from a team and rebuild it. even then it's going to cost you buttloads. If this where an ls or an old 350 then the parts are out there but there are over 10million chevy 350's made so the market is HUGE. an old race motor is going to be the best bet for the one or two guys who want and can afford to get a 9000rpm nissan v8 making over 600hp na. look at the falconer engines its only remotely affordable way to get something like that and look at what those cost (epic god awesome bitchin level 11 tho lol)Welcome to Ryan Falconer Racing Engines! - IRL Street V8 FAQ I'm sure something is coming for the rest of us who don't have THAT kind of change lying around __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

05-05-2013, 11:11 PM	#22 (permalink)
Rusty Ronin Samurai - Assassin Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 68 Posts: 34,887 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684436	If you got cubic dollars, you can do anything you want. There is something out there for everybody. It's just a matter of finding it. LOL Changing the bore and stroke. Different strokes for different folks. LOL SS_Firehawk likes this. __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

05-06-2013, 12:33 AM	#23 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7250	true i said a couple people could do this so heres an idea they should start a group buy thread i'm sure if 15 people got together in the "I want to spend 80,000 for just the motor" thread a race company would take you up on it. If we want it to happen we need at least that. Edit: Not trying to be pessimistic or anything, that is really the least it would take if you want a new supermotor. otherwise only option like i said is to buy a class racing engine, either the menard racing corr motor or the Australian motor. They could always try the mp4-12c m838t that is basically an new old nissan irl vrh35 __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50 Last edited by 1slow370; 05-06-2013 at 12:36 AM.

05-05-2013, 09:49 PM	#20 (permalink)
BGTV8 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: 03350 Australia Posts: 1,503 Drives: 09 Nissan 370Z M6 Rep Power: 29907	Talk to Kelly Racing in Braeside, Melbourne (aka Nissan Motorpsorts Australia) about a 640hp VK56 V8Supercar engine .... won;t cost much (....... you might get change from 70-grand ..). RB

05-06-2013, 02:25 PM	#25 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7250	everything aft of the crank? why? or drivetrain is stout as it comes so far as power capacity goes. 700+ is not an issue for the trans and certainly not the diff. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

05-06-2013, 05:25 PM	#26 (permalink)
IDZRVIT A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: Halifax Posts: 1,659 Drives: '13 CTS-V, '76 Vette Rep Power: 26	You can verify this? The autos don't appear to be all that stout. __________________ "America.... still builds rockets!" Vette: 355 cid, 400 rwhp '13 CTS-V Coupe: 6.2L LSA, 556HP

05-06-2013, 06:23 PM	#28 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7250	the manual is i could care less about all automatics. Nissan has been building beefy manuals every since the z32 __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

05-06-2013, 06:51 PM	#29 (permalink)
bullitt5897 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North GA Posts: 6,831 Drives: Twin Turbo Z34 Rep Power: 3682	Guys remember it is not HP that kills a transmission it is TQ... Nut_N_Much likes this. __________________ *Shop Cars: 2013 318whp Nismo VspecII 370z SOLD, 2009 1000hp+ 93oct 4.0L TT 370z Fast Intentions STAGE 4 #054*

05-10-2013, 10:20 PM	#30 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7250	yeah and how much torque did your car make last time it was dyno'd? Edit: a quick look at the MAF thread says 710ftlbs. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50 Last edited by 1slow370; 05-10-2013 at 10:37 PM.

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