Sway Bars, Track and AutoX?

Sh0velMan · 10-25-2013, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martin82

LOL only lap times count bro!

Nope, too many factors. You must have a laboratory-tested roll-over study with at least 20 units and provide your results for a peer review before I will concede that you may not be a total idiot. That's the only way.

Chuck33079 · 10-25-2013, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martin82

LOL only lap times count bro!

Oh please. Like you learn anything at the track. On ramps and hills are where you really learn what you and your car are made of.

clintfocus · 10-25-2013, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZMan8

So I was considering getting Eibach F & R and putting front on full stiff and rear on soft. My car is a street car, that will probably see some autoX. Would you say I should get Hotchkis Front instead then?

I looked at Whitelines but got mixed reviews from other members.

what do your tire sizes look like?

matcop · 10-26-2013, 04:56 PM

Running super stiff front sway bar. No sway bar in the rear. I M O your front sway will carry through to the rear. You want the rear to be a lil soft for full contact in the corners.

Running Kw3's with Custom valving and modified SPL A arms (before they came out with the official 370 z ones)

also running 18x10.5 square setup with 1" spacer in rear. tire size 285/35/18

All work was set up by Robispec. He does very good work !

clintfocus · 10-26-2013, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matcop

Running super stiff front sway bar. No sway bar in the rear. I M O your front sway will carry through to the rear. You want the rear to be a lil soft for full contact in the corners.

Running Kw3's with Custom valving and modified SPL A arms (before they came out with the official 370 z ones)

also running 18x10.5 square setup with 1" spacer in rear. tire size 285/35/18

All work was set up by Robispec. He does very good work !

that's robi's style, square and big front bar, no rear bar LOL
what front bar are you running?

synolimit · 10-26-2013, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clintfocus

soooo doesnt the chart homor posted show the hotchkis as significantly stiffer then the whiteline? on top of this you run a pretty heavy stagger with a narrow front tire, which is what i use to run too and the front whiteline on full stiff was enough, then i went square sizes and it really exposed the front Whiteline as too soft partnered with the KW V3 off the shelf rates. Speaking to Doran, they ran the Hotchkis before they made there own bars because it was the stiffest, they said it themselves.

in regards to GSS138 backing me up, for one he knows me from being in the same socal track scene, he backed up up cause he knows that im not some forum know it all who just talks outta his ***, im actually out there tracking and testing, using my knowledge base of suspension tuning from years of being on track...UNLIKE yourself who drives in the mountains...

And who made that? How does a bar with a surface area 21.5% larger have a weakness of 166% less? I said I like stuff "like" homer posted because its simple data you can see. But the back half I don't like because it makes no sense to see those types of numbers. Hell even the stillen is 37% stiffer yet has an even greater gap with surface area. Unless WL is made from silly string I don't see it.

I'm not taking out my ***, I'm not looking for help or crying, I could care less how well respected you are, I don't give a rats *** about you. All I said to start this was I don't care for an opinion and don't see one bar being better than another when the data isn't there. Simple, to the point, bitch on.

synolimit · 10-26-2013, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh0velMan

Par for the course with Synolimit. He knows all.

Also, Doran actually did a shootout with a torsion test on most of the common retail bars before making their own. BJ has posted some of that information here somewhere, I remember reading the numbers in lbs/inch for various bars.

(Like Hotchkis front was ~990lbs and their bar they made is like 1600 or something outrageous.)

Coming from a guy that doesn't know what a helmholtz is and thinks rasp is good. Haha keep learning, maybe one day you'll be smarter than me.

Super Werty · 10-26-2013, 06:06 PM

batman's are bigger - YouTube

clintfocus · 10-26-2013, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by synolimit

And who made that? How does a bar with a surface area 21.5% larger have a weakness of 166% less? I said I like stuff "like" homer posted because its simple data you can see. But the back half I don't like because it makes no sense to see those types of numbers. Hell even the stillen is 37% stiffer yet has an even greater gap with surface area. Unless WL is made from silly string I don't see it.

I'm not taking out my ***, I'm not looking for help or crying, I could care less how well respected you are, I don't give a rats *** about you. All I said to start this was I don't care for an opinion and don't see one bar being better than another when the data isn't there. Simple, to the point, bitch on.

well then you can just be slower

gomer_110 · 10-26-2013, 06:26 PM

Syno, I'm guessing you don't have an engineering background since you seem very confused on how deflection calculations are made. The "I" column in the chart is "Moment of Inertia". It plays a huge role in how much something will deflect (how stiff it is).

fwiw I have a degree in mechanical engineering so I do know a thing or two about these kind of things.

synolimit · 10-26-2013, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clintfocus

well then you can just be slower

Brother look, I'll live and learn, but I won't be taking opinion to convince me and ill state what I want to state if I see data over opinion that doesn't make sense and question it every time and then some if I'm not satisfied or convinced.

synolimit · 10-26-2013, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomer_110

Syno, I'm guessing you don't have an engineering background since you seem very confused on how deflection calculation are made. The "I" column in the chart is "Moment of Inertia". It plays a huge role in how much something will deflect (how stiff it is).

fwiw I have a degree in mechanical engineering so I do know a thing or two about these kind of things.

I understand that. Even plugged the numbers in myself so yes I see long bar vs long bar there is a difference. But if metals are not the exact same and mounting points are not in the same location (WL is adjustable, hotchkis is not) then we don't have a winner. we still need to see torsion testing on the actually bar and not just a round piece of tube numbers. That's why I like the chart, just not 100% and why I still like data vs opinion.

Eagle · 10-26-2013, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by synolimit

I understand that. Even plugged the numbers in myself so yes I see long bar vs long bar there is a difference. But if metals are not the exact same and mounting points are not in the same location (WL is adjustable, hotchkis is not) then we don't have a winner. we still need to see torsion testing on the actually bar and not just a round piece of tube numbers. That's why I like the chart, just not 100% and why I still like data vs opinion.

I don't think isolated testing like torsion tests are going to be as valuable as telemetry and lap times. Simplest question to ask yourself is...did it make me go faster? Can't really do that safely and consistently anywhere else other than at the track.

When you test it on the track you test the entire solution, driver, car and the part that has been changed.

GSS138 · 10-26-2013, 11:12 PM

Syno, there is a place called Mid Ohio, go. It will answer all your questions.

synolimit · 10-27-2013, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle

I don't think isolated testing like torsion tests are going to be as valuable as telemetry and lap times. Simplest question to ask yourself is...did it make me go faster? Can't really do that safely and consistently anywhere else other than at the track.

When you test it on the track you test the entire solution, driver, car and the part that has been changed.

True, I agree. But if a part was truly better/bigger/stronger/stiffer than a driver should be able to get into a car without knowing what was changed and go faster. If not then what was the point of spending the money? If these cars love big front bars then a torsion test would be valuable data for people to plainly see "I need that one."

Seems everyone likes the hotchkins here while a thread in 12 everyone was hating on it. Stating WL and stillen did testing while Hotchkins just slapped it on a car and flicked the wheel back and forth to show youtubers its stiffer. Chrisslicks even stated its poor R&D and a lot of tuning had to go into his settings to make up for it. To each their own.

10-26-2013, 06:06 PM	#38 (permalink)
Super Werty Track Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: AZ Posts: 668 Drives: '13 Sport Rep Power: 13	batman's are bigger - YouTube __________________ The Build

10-26-2013, 06:26 PM	#40 (permalink)
gomer_110 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Perrysburg, OH Posts: 17,992 Drives: '11 Nismo #528 GM Rep Power: 36941	Syno, I'm guessing you don't have an engineering background since you seem very confused on how deflection calculations are made. The "I" column in the chart is "Moment of Inertia". It plays a huge role in how much something will deflect (how stiff it is). fwiw I have a degree in mechanical engineering so I do know a thing or two about these kind of things. clintfocus, Bondfire, yoyoPR and 2 others like this. __________________ '11 370Z Nismo #528 Fast Intentions \| Stillen \| Motordyne \| Uprev \| CSF \| Zspeed \| Z1 Motorsports \| AST \| Swift \| SPC \| SPL \| Whiteline \| Hotchkis \| Bride \| Schroth \| Robispec \| Cusco \| Nismo \| Volk \| Forgestar \| Hoosier \| RJM '17 Titan Bone Stock Last edited by gomer_110; 10-26-2013 at 11:28 PM.

10-26-2013, 11:12 PM	#44 (permalink)
GSS138 Track Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Mission Viejo, CA Posts: 769 Drives: '12 370Z 6M Sport Rep Power: 14	Syno, there is a place called Mid Ohio, go. It will answer all your questions. gomer_110 likes this. __________________ Current Mods: Vorpal Weapon +5.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
What do you have to say about sway bars?	cycy89	Brakes & Suspension	60	11-29-2023 11:27 AM
Preferred Sway Bars for AutoX	gomer_110	Track / Autocross / Drifting / Dragstrip	10	05-01-2012 07:35 PM
Front Sway Bar Comparison for AutoX	handyman	Track / Autocross / Drifting / Dragstrip	14	05-15-2011 05:15 PM
WTB F/R sway bars	Kastley85891	Parts for sale (Private Classifieds)	0	07-16-2010 10:42 PM
what do sway bars do	black09Z	Brakes & Suspension	7	07-10-2009 08:01 PM

10-26-2013, 04:56 PM	#34 (permalink)
matcop Base Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Montclair Posts: 68 Drives: 2009 370 Z Silver Rep Power: 14	Running super stiff front sway bar. No sway bar in the rear. I M O your front sway will carry through to the rear. You want the rear to be a lil soft for full contact in the corners. Running Kw3's with Custom valving and modified SPL A arms (before they came out with the official 370 z ones) also running 18x10.5 square setup with 1" spacer in rear. tire size 285/35/18 All work was set up by Robispec. He does very good work !