Camaro gets a refresh after 1year.

ZCanadian · 06-30-2019, 10:59 AM

If they don’t push it (companies and governments), it’s not going to happen.
Demand isn’t going to shift to EV’s on its own.

For companies, it seems to be a way to differentiate oneself, and a reason for charging exorbitantly more for a car.

For government it makes it look like they are doing something to the Millennials who are more interested in a cause than a job (and, Lord help us all, are now becoming political), while pushing the time-bomb of generation and transmission capacity down the road for future governments to address.

The only losers are the consumer, who has to pay more for a lesser vehicle (“lesser” at the moment, because range and recharging capability is limited unless you live in certain regions), and the taxpayer who is no doubt going to have to foot the bill for much of this folly (incentives, road tax changes, subsidy for generation/transmission expansion, and payments to subsidize for increased overall electricity costs). But as long as producers and regulators can rely on a general lack of critical thinking, industry will move in this direction. As with most mandated changes, the move to EV will be bungled six ways to Sunday as compatibilities, timing, infrastructure and costs will not be sorted out by market forces and will therefore be inefficient.

These changes are being brought to you by the same people who draft a manifesto against single use straws while sipping their Kuerig/Tassimo coffees. Or the kids who skip school to get driven to a climate change strike/rally in their parents’ Suburbans and Land Rovers.

UNKNOWN_370 · 07-01-2019, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZCanadian

If they don’t push it (companies and governments), it’s not going to happen.
Demand isn’t going to shift to EV’s on its own.

For companies, it seems to be a way to differentiate oneself, and a reason for charging exorbitantly more for a car.

For government it makes it look like they are doing something to the Millennials who are more interested in a cause than a job (and, Lord help us all, are now becoming political), while pushing the time-bomb of generation and transmission capacity down the road for future governments to address.

The only losers are the consumer, who has to pay more for a lesser vehicle (“lesser” at the moment, because range and recharging capability is limited unless you live in certain regions), and the taxpayer who is no doubt going to have to foot the bill for much of this folly (incentives, road tax changes, subsidy for generation/transmission expansion, and payments to subsidize for increased overall electricity costs). But as long as producers and regulators can rely on a general lack of critical thinking, industry will move in this direction. As with most mandated changes, the move to EV will be bungled six ways to Sunday as compatibilities, timing, infrastructure and costs will not be sorted out by market forces and will therefore be inefficient.

These changes are being brought to you by the same people who draft a manifesto against single use straws while sipping their Kuerig/Tassimo coffees. Or the kids who skip school to get driven to a climate change strike/rally in their parents’ Suburbans and Land Rovers.

Funny though. We have intentional rolling blackouts just to keep the grid from exploding.... but ummm... We're pushing more EV cars. The populace is generally stupid. They support ideas before thinking of the situation in front of them. It's like a magic unicorn is supposed to suddenly wave a wand and fix the grid cuz the idea of having electric cars sounds great.

If the government wants electric vehicles? They have millions of fed cars police cars 18 wheelers mail trucks ambulances and so forth they can convert to electric power before they push this agenda on us. Let the police stations and truck companies make deals with Tesla etc... Our tax dollars spend more time in politicians pockets than in funding something like that. Then to push electric car propaganda. They force it on us Guinea pigs first than government officials riding around in a giant lithium battery. They talk about cell phones and cancer with a 3000mah battery. Imagine a 100,000 man lithium battery. Eff* them and their electrification propaganda. Give us roaring engines and track days!!!

UNKNOWN_370 · 07-01-2019, 12:08 PM

Going back to a happy place. I found this video of a 1LE vs GS... who would win. I knew the answer to that already. And yes as a DD... the camaro is the hooligan of the 2. More fun on the street. Vette... better on track.

But price to price... a camaro ZL1 1LE and a grand sport costs the same. I'd love to see that comparo.

https://youtu.be/RWYd3Jw2zn0

Desert Rat · 07-02-2019, 04:14 PM

Camaro is ceasing production after 2023. They just can't keep up with Ford and Dodge on sales.

UNKNOWN_370 · 07-02-2019, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert Rat

Camaro is ceasing production after 2023. They just can't keep up with Ford and Dodge on sales.

1. They just increased 2% in June with the 2020 refresh

2. They shelved the project for an estimated 2 years. It's not cancelled.

3. The big 3 always fluctuate their sales numbers.

You might wanna research your info before commenting.

https://gmauthority-com.cdn.ampproje...olet-camaro%2F

https://gmauthority-com.cdn.ampproje...n-june-2019%2F

Here's sales over the last 5 years. With the exception of a few months. Camaro has dominated most sales...

http://motrolix.com/automotive-sales...ge-challenger/

UNKNOWN_370 · 07-03-2019, 10:30 AM

https://www-motor1-com.cdn.ampprojec...28-canceled%2F

So I'm posting this article mainly for the last paragraph. They state Chevy and many car companies are cancelling low selling vehicles to focus more on electric and autonomous driving.

The IRONY is... Electrics and hybrids are the lowest selling cars right now!!!! The lunacy of reporting about to low selling cars and promoting the lowest selling, lowest public interest cars of all automotive generations.

The camaro z/28 seems to be cancelled. I dont see anyone pining over a chevy bolt. Fvckin morons!! They suddenly started sounding like Nissan outta left.

ZCanadian · 07-03-2019, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

1. They just increased 2% in June with the 2020 refresh

...
Here's sales over the last 5 years. With the exception of a few months. Camaro has dominated most sales...

Sales Comparison: Camaro vs Mustang vs Challenger

Looking year over year, the Mustang has outsold the Camaro by 20% to 60% in the last 3 years.

And although it has basically kept pace with the Challenger, if you add in the Charger (which is basically the same car with 2 more doors and a modicum more rear seat room), those have outsold Mustang. From a platform profitability standpoint, it's FCA for the win with Ford and GM pulling up as spectators.

Year..............2019......2018.......2017
Camaro......24,517....50,963....67,940
Mustang.....38,542....75,842....81,866
Challenger..28,668....66,716....64,537
Charger......45,046....80,226....88,351

USA sales from goodcarbadcar.net

Interestingly, Mustang outsells Charger in Canada! Camaro still 4th in this list. I wonder if it is US police force purchases that jacks up Charger sales down there?

UNKNOWN_370 · 07-05-2019, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZCanadian

Looking year over year, the Mustang has outsold the Camaro by 20% to 60% in the last 3 years.

And although it has basically kept pace with the Challenger, if you add in the Charger (which is basically the same car with 2 more doors and a modicum more rear seat room), those have outsold Mustang. From a platform profitability standpoint, it's FCA for the win with Ford and GM pulling up as spectators.

Year..............2019......2018.......2017
Camaro......24,517....50,963....67,940
Mustang.....38,542....75,842....81,866
Challenger..28,668....66,716....64,537
Charger......45,046....80,226....88,351

USA sales from goodcarbadcar.net

Interestingly, Mustang outsells Charger in Canada! Camaro still 4th in this list. I wonder if it is US police force purchases that jacks up Charger sales down there?

At this point... it doesn't even matter...

https://youtu.be/aB197fU5vs8

Rumor became fact... Camaro as a nameplate is dead in 2023. It's been shelved to possibly come back but... things are looking bad...

For mustang fanboys... this is bad. It kills competitiveness in the muscle arena. When camaro disappeared... So did the 5.0 and the world's shittiest v6 came to ford. The Z destroyed the mustang first. But then... came the camaro. It was revolutionary as a muscle car. And now. The Camaro drives unlike any other muscle car. It rivals porsches instead of M bimmers. Who woulda thought. Without the camaro the mustang will turn into an EV SUV with a coupe back. This was the last true enthusiast market. JDM let us down 5 yes ago. We had muscle to keep us going. Now they're gucking that up too.

FCA outsells cuz they are boats with loads of room. They're not sports cars. I dont know what's the h as te on sports cars over the last decade. But these pansies need to all find a skyscraper n jump off it. The enthusiast market is dead. Only the rich will play. I just might get a ZL1 or ZR1 as an investment?

So the mustang supra and corvette will be your only options for an affordable sports car??? Oh and the Z34 in 2023? Lol. Geez...

UNKNOWN_370 · 07-06-2019, 06:31 AM

Al OPPENHEISER the head of Camaro development. .. Reassigned to developing EV cars... Fvck THE INDUSTRY

https://www-roadandtrack-com.cdn.amp...elop-gm-evs%2F

I guess this shoulda been the first hint.

UNKNOWN_370 · 07-07-2019, 09:55 AM

Chevy is colluding with Russia.

https://gmauthority-com.cdn.ampproje...ack-edition%2F

UNKNOWN_370 · 07-15-2019, 06:38 PM

Ok... so ummm. A strange test mule is running around in 3rd gen chassis... wtf? Is the csmaro dead or not?

Will the 7th gen be a copy of the 3rd gen?

https://gmauthority-com.cdn.ampproje...ture-camaro%2F

I think s 73 Camaro would've made the best retro camaro. But the 3rd gen had corvette like proportions. Hmmm?

UNKNOWN_370 · 07-17-2019, 12:50 AM

https://youtu.be/eVuwfCFsBrw

The 2020 refresh is hot!

UNKNOWN_370 · 07-25-2019, 10:06 AM

I realize what the dilemma of making a 7th gen camaro is now that the C8 is here.

Camaros for the most part have been 90% vettes with backseats. The C7 and camaro 6 got even closer in performance in this past generation.

NOW... the corvette is soooooo good. There's no way in HELL. That a camaro will be 90% of a corvette. And I'm sure they will NOT try to make a 4seat mid engine like a Lotus evora. I'm sure the vette is a subsidized car to have put it out like this. Theres no profit in the vette. They're probably taking a loss hoping that bread n butter
Sales make up for corvette losses that was created for bragging rights.

Also they know that building a Camaro they'd have to make an LT3 for FR use and offer a DCT for FR use as well. They probably dont have the budget.

Then they would have to make a Camaro 7 with at least corvette grand sport performance to make up for the lack of that 90% vette reputation. That would be the minimum performance requirement to make the camaro be what its rep has been.

Sales of the camaro is not going in the direction needed to make that good of a car. Especially now the camaro interior quality would have to bump up etc... just to sell. Making a ZL1 that costs more than a base vette but is still slower than a base vette is a huge dilemma. The camaro name has to drop till they can figure out a new identity for the camaro. The vette is just too much car for the camaro to exist.

UNKNOWN_370 · 08-08-2019, 02:45 PM

I gotta get a ZL1 ASAP. Muscle is going to be teslas with star wars land speeder noises.

Falconquey · 08-08-2019, 04:20 PM

Mo Camaro...

06-30-2019, 10:59 AM	#16 (permalink)
ZCanadian A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Canada Posts: 1,033 Drives: 2013 370Z Rep Power: 58796	If they don’t push it (companies and governments), it’s not going to happen. Demand isn’t going to shift to EV’s on its own. For companies, it seems to be a way to differentiate oneself, and a reason for charging exorbitantly more for a car. For government it makes it look like they are doing something to the Millennials who are more interested in a cause than a job (and, Lord help us all, are now becoming political), while pushing the time-bomb of generation and transmission capacity down the road for future governments to address. The only losers are the consumer, who has to pay more for a lesser vehicle (“lesser” at the moment, because range and recharging capability is limited unless you live in certain regions), and the taxpayer who is no doubt going to have to foot the bill for much of this folly (incentives, road tax changes, subsidy for generation/transmission expansion, and payments to subsidize for increased overall electricity costs). But as long as producers and regulators can rely on a general lack of critical thinking, industry will move in this direction. As with most mandated changes, the move to EV will be bungled six ways to Sunday as compatibilities, timing, infrastructure and costs will not be sorted out by market forces and will therefore be inefficient. These changes are being brought to you by the same people who draft a manifesto against single use straws while sipping their Kuerig/Tassimo coffees. Or the kids who skip school to get driven to a climate change strike/rally in their parents’ Suburbans and Land Rovers. Last edited by ZCanadian; 06-30-2019 at 11:02 AM.

07-01-2019, 12:08 PM	#18 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14857	Going back to a happy place. I found this video of a 1LE vs GS... who would win. I knew the answer to that already. And yes as a DD... the camaro is the hooligan of the 2. More fun on the street. Vette... better on track. But price to price... a camaro ZL1 1LE and a grand sport costs the same. I'd love to see that comparo. https://youtu.be/RWYd3Jw2zn0 __________________ Favorite Quote. "I'm not gonna kill you... I'm just gonna Bash Your Face In" Jack Nicholson-"The Shining". 1980

07-03-2019, 10:30 AM	#21 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14857	https://www-motor1-com.cdn.ampprojec...28-canceled%2F So I'm posting this article mainly for the last paragraph. They state Chevy and many car companies are cancelling low selling vehicles to focus more on electric and autonomous driving. The IRONY is... Electrics and hybrids are the lowest selling cars right now!!!! The lunacy of reporting about to low selling cars and promoting the lowest selling, lowest public interest cars of all automotive generations. The camaro z/28 seems to be cancelled. I dont see anyone pining over a chevy bolt. Fvckin morons!! They suddenly started sounding like Nissan outta left. Zingston likes this. __________________ Favorite Quote. "I'm not gonna kill you... I'm just gonna Bash Your Face In" Jack Nicholson-"The Shining". 1980

07-06-2019, 06:31 AM	#24 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14857	Al OPPENHEISER the head of Camaro development. .. Reassigned to developing EV cars... Fvck THE INDUSTRY https://www-roadandtrack-com.cdn.amp...elop-gm-evs%2F I guess this shoulda been the first hint. __________________ Favorite Quote. "I'm not gonna kill you... I'm just gonna Bash Your Face In" Jack Nicholson-"The Shining". 1980 Last edited by UNKNOWN_370; 07-06-2019 at 06:36 AM.

07-07-2019, 09:55 AM	#25 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14857	Chevy is colluding with Russia. https://gmauthority-com.cdn.ampproje...ack-edition%2F __________________ Favorite Quote. "I'm not gonna kill you... I'm just gonna Bash Your Face In" Jack Nicholson-"The Shining". 1980

07-02-2019, 04:14 PM	#19 (permalink)
Desert Rat Base Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 189 Drives: 2014 370Z M6 Base Rep Power: 3364	Camaro is ceasing production after 2023. They just can't keep up with Ford and Dodge on sales.

07-15-2019, 06:38 PM	#26 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14857	Ok... so ummm. A strange test mule is running around in 3rd gen chassis... wtf? Is the csmaro dead or not? Will the 7th gen be a copy of the 3rd gen? https://gmauthority-com.cdn.ampproje...ture-camaro%2F I think s 73 Camaro would've made the best retro camaro. But the 3rd gen had corvette like proportions. Hmmm? __________________ Favorite Quote. "I'm not gonna kill you... I'm just gonna Bash Your Face In" Jack Nicholson-"The Shining". 1980

07-17-2019, 12:50 AM	#27 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14857	https://youtu.be/eVuwfCFsBrw The 2020 refresh is hot! __________________ Favorite Quote. "I'm not gonna kill you... I'm just gonna Bash Your Face In" Jack Nicholson-"The Shining". 1980

07-25-2019, 10:06 AM	#28 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14857	I realize what the dilemma of making a 7th gen camaro is now that the C8 is here. Camaros for the most part have been 90% vettes with backseats. The C7 and camaro 6 got even closer in performance in this past generation. NOW... the corvette is soooooo good. There's no way in HELL. That a camaro will be 90% of a corvette. And I'm sure they will NOT try to make a 4seat mid engine like a Lotus evora. I'm sure the vette is a subsidized car to have put it out like this. Theres no profit in the vette. They're probably taking a loss hoping that bread n butter Sales make up for corvette losses that was created for bragging rights. Also they know that building a Camaro they'd have to make an LT3 for FR use and offer a DCT for FR use as well. They probably dont have the budget. Then they would have to make a Camaro 7 with at least corvette grand sport performance to make up for the lack of that 90% vette reputation. That would be the minimum performance requirement to make the camaro be what its rep has been. Sales of the camaro is not going in the direction needed to make that good of a car. Especially now the camaro interior quality would have to bump up etc... just to sell. Making a ZL1 that costs more than a base vette but is still slower than a base vette is a huge dilemma. The camaro name has to drop till they can figure out a new identity for the camaro. The vette is just too much car for the camaro to exist. __________________ Favorite Quote. "I'm not gonna kill you... I'm just gonna Bash Your Face In" Jack Nicholson-"The Shining". 1980

08-08-2019, 02:45 PM	#29 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14857	DAMN... this makes sense! I gotta get a ZL1 ASAP. Muscle is going to be teslas with star wars land speeder noises. __________________ Favorite Quote. "I'm not gonna kill you... I'm just gonna Bash Your Face In" Jack Nicholson-"The Shining". 1980

08-08-2019, 04:20 PM	#30 (permalink)
Falconquey Track Member Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: PacNW Posts: 563 Drives: Bitchin' 15 Z Rep Power: 2246924	Mo Camaro...

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