Burned up my brakes at the track, now what?

SS_Firehawk · 07-14-2020, 04:03 PM

The main benefit of the two piece is it allows for the rotor to expand and contract separate to the hub. It also allows the rotor maintain better contact with the pad as it wears over time. Temps generally reach higher peak because of less rotor mass, but they cool back down faster. If your rotor gets too hot, you can crack the ring, so taking too much material runs a greater risk of that happening.

Shotta · 07-14-2020, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekinn

The issue with that is the other pad material left on the rotor when you switch. I've had issues where my pads and rotors kind of looked like the OPs (not quite that bad) when switching from street to race without a clean rotor.

One way to clean the street pad off is to just run the race pads on the street.. it basically acts like a lathe when cold and will do a pretty good job after a 100 or so miles of street driving. Then you are ready to bed in the race pads for optimal performance.

I've also heard of Carbotech's Bobcats. Supposed to be a street pad used along with XP series race pads and I guess due to some similarity in material avoids the steps listed above.

Ive never ever had this type of issue but Im sure it can depend on what pads you are switching between. On the front I have Mintex Extremes for the track and DS2500 for the street. On the rear Bobcats and XP8's. The Mintex Extremes have almost no stopping power until they are heated up so no good for daily driving.

cv129 · 07-14-2020, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OptionZero

I will defer to those with more track experience than I, and i see your point generally that a blank 1 pc has more mass and therefore more thermal capacity than a 2 pc . .

but don't all our current 2 pc options also have superior internal venting (for lack of a better term) to funnel air through the inside and therefore cool better on track?

is it your experience that the venting doesn't matter as much as just having more mass?

Some 1 pc also have similar designed directional internal vanes for drawing and dissipating air. Take DBA for example, both 5000 (2pc) and 4000 (1pc) series use the same “kangaroo paw” internal vanes.

I think for #91 specifically, he’s saying the marginal performance benefits don’t outweigh the cost saving from using cryo treated blanks. One can buy 1 pc with the internal vanes, then send to get cryo treated....or some sites actually sell cryo treated stoptechs.

2011 Nismo#91 · 07-15-2020, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OptionZero

I will defer to those with more track experience than I, and i see your point generally that a blank 1 pc has more mass and therefore more thermal capacity than a 2 pc . .

but don't all our current 2 pc options also have superior internal venting (for lack of a better term) to funnel air through the inside and therefore cool better on track?

is it your experience that the venting doesn't matter as much as just having more mass?

Venting is the same internally. Every mfg. has their own little version of better but as long as they have some form of curved internal venting you're good.

Less mass is great, but now now you need to add cooling, the faster heating and cooling stresses out more components, higher peak temps, and on top of that more money. If your racing then yeah none of that matters, for an extra .2 seconds or whatever, could mean a position. I'd see that money better spent on another track weekend (more seat time), 18" wheels (less weight, lower costs, more selection), aero, data analysis, etc. If replacements were more inline with 1 piece rotors I could see the benefit but, to me it's a money sink within a money sink.

JARblue · 07-15-2020, 10:26 AM

The Z1 2 pc rotors are too weak for track use. They're cute and lightweight but they don't hold up under real use. This is what my research indicates - I won't be using my Z1 2 pc rotors on the track.

The Racing Brake 2 pc rotors on the other hand are much more solid and do hold up. Rusty, how many times have you had to replace the rotors on them? Ever?

I'd be interested in the comparison of how much track time you can get out of an RB setup vs the equivalent cost of ~5 sets of cryo treated blanks. Not suggesting that money couldn't be put to better use somewhere else. Just pondering.

OptionZero · 07-15-2020, 10:58 AM

What happened to your Z1’s?

JARblue · 07-15-2020, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OptionZero

What happened to your Z1’s?

Mine were track used. I purchased them before I got serious about my build and was planning mostly street use for them. Figured they would be ok.

But talking to the seller and several others and looking around online, it just seemed like they weren't really up to snuff for track use. So now that I've started building the car for the track, I'm looking at replacing them. It's hard for me to justify anything other than the RB setup.

Rusty · 07-15-2020, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue

The Z1 2 pc rotors are too weak for track use. They're cute and lightweight but they don't hold up under real use. This is what my research indicates - I won't be using my Z1 2 pc rotors on the track.

The Racing Brake 2 pc rotors on the other hand are much more solid and do hold up. Rusty, how many times have you had to replace the rotors on them? Ever?

I'd be interested in the comparison of how much track time you can get out of an RB setup vs the equivalent cost of ~5 sets of cryo treated blanks. Not suggesting that money couldn't be put to better use somewhere else. Just pondering.

I've gone through 3 sets of pads without cutting the rotors. The next set, I'll cut the rotors to see what they look like.

OptionZero · 07-15-2020, 12:21 PM

I also have a set of Z1 two piece lying around. I chose them bc it seemed like folks seemed to use them fine.

I could see how their durability varies based on how hard the are used.

As a relatively notice level guy i cannot imagine i would be beating on them the way a real track junkie would, so i think they're fine

My set up will be:
Z1 2 pc rotors
Endless MX72
Stillen brake ducts
titanium shims
tires undecided (Nexens are out of stock, looking at NT05)
fluid undecided (Endless RF650 or Motul RBF660)

That will probably be more than sufficient for my skill level for now

JARblue · 07-15-2020, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OptionZero

I could see how their durability varies based on how hard the are used.

I was not trying to insinuate that they cannot be used on the track. But I know I am hard on my brakes in general and my comments about the rotors are intended to reflect expectations for myself.

bpchaos · 07-16-2020, 12:28 AM

My Z1 2pc were used pretty extensively across several days on Laguna Seca, Buttonwillow, Thunderhill and Autoclub speedway. Only after 2 back to back days at Autoclub roval did they start to deposit so bad they shook the car.

Again, anecdotal but mine have held up ok. I'm pretty hard on my brakes too.

07-14-2020, 04:03 PM	#31 (permalink)
SS_Firehawk Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Tampa Posts: 4,142 Drives: 13' Magma Red Nismo Rep Power: 7334	The main benefit of the two piece is it allows for the rotor to expand and contract separate to the hub. It also allows the rotor maintain better contact with the pad as it wears over time. Temps generally reach higher peak because of less rotor mass, but they cool back down faster. If your rotor gets too hot, you can crack the ring, so taking too much material runs a greater risk of that happening. Rusty likes this. __________________ Old Car:GTM TSC'd 550whp / 410lbft tq @ 11.88PSI New Car: Under Construction

07-15-2020, 10:26 AM	#35 (permalink)
JARblue A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Austin, TX Age: 43 Posts: 36,449 Drives: 11 Z34, 98 E36 M3 Rep Power: 2684440	The Z1 2 pc rotors are too weak for track use. They're cute and lightweight but they don't hold up under real use. This is what my research indicates - I won't be using my Z1 2 pc rotors on the track. The Racing Brake 2 pc rotors on the other hand are much more solid and do hold up. Rusty, how many times have you had to replace the rotors on them? Ever? I'd be interested in the comparison of how much track time you can get out of an RB setup vs the equivalent cost of ~5 sets of cryo treated blanks. Not suggesting that money couldn't be put to better use somewhere else. Just pondering. Rusty and ZoomZ like this. __________________ 2011 370Z 6MT Sport Gun Metallic \| ARC \| CJM \| Ecutek \| FI \| Fujimura \| R2C \| SPL \| Stillen \| TWM \| Z1 \| ZSpeed \|

07-15-2020, 10:58 AM	#36 (permalink)
OptionZero A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Sacramento Posts: 3,159 Drives: 15 370Z Nismo 6MT Rep Power: 203226	What happened to your Z1’s? __________________ OptionZero Build Thread

07-15-2020, 12:21 PM	#39 (permalink)
OptionZero A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Sacramento Posts: 3,159 Drives: 15 370Z Nismo 6MT Rep Power: 203226	I also have a set of Z1 two piece lying around. I chose them bc it seemed like folks seemed to use them fine. I could see how their durability varies based on how hard the are used. As a relatively notice level guy i cannot imagine i would be beating on them the way a real track junkie would, so i think they're fine My set up will be: Z1 2 pc rotors Endless MX72 Stillen brake ducts titanium shims tires undecided (Nexens are out of stock, looking at NT05) fluid undecided (Endless RF650 or Motul RBF660) That will probably be more than sufficient for my skill level for now JARblue, Rusty, madwi and 1 others like this. __________________ OptionZero Build Thread

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07-16-2020, 12:28 AM	#41 (permalink)
bpchaos Base Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 74 Drives: G37S (370z+ seats) Rep Power: 3363	My Z1 2pc were used pretty extensively across several days on Laguna Seca, Buttonwillow, Thunderhill and Autoclub speedway. Only after 2 back to back days at Autoclub roval did they start to deposit so bad they shook the car. Again, anecdotal but mine have held up ok. I'm pretty hard on my brakes too.