Stiff Front Sway Bar Thoughts

filip00 · 08-29-2022, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AH370Z

I fitted a front whiteline sway bar with 2 settings, swift springs oem shocks oem 19" tyre sizes and Michelin Piot 4S tyres.

I asked whiteline how much stiffer over oem and soft is approx 30% and hard is 65% I tried the hard setting and the car just wanted to understeer too much. Simple test was perform quick U turn, hit the gas trying to spin the car around and it just understeered.

I simply cannot understand how some run the much stiffer bars up front 100-130% stiffer whatever it is. Just tells me majority simply do not drive the cars hard enough (which is fine) so all they are feeling is the stiffer setup and less roll, but if actually drove the car agressivly they would end up pushing.

Spot on. If you do the same test you mentioned with a stiff rear sway, your *** will be overtaking you immediately.

Rusty · 08-29-2022, 03:43 AM

The stiff front sway bar was tested by Doren Racing. When they ran a 370RC in the Pirelli Cup. Their race driver was a member on here. Dwnshift, pro driver. And others have proven that it works. I, for one. I'm a Class C driver.

AH370Z · 08-29-2022, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

The stiff front sway bar was tested by Doren Racing. When they ran a 370RC in the Pirelli Cup. Their race driver was a member on here. Dwnshift, pro driver. And others have proven that it works. I, for one. I'm a Class C driver.

Maybe so for a track setup on R compounds and square setup tyres. Front stiff bar on street setup is not ideal.

filip00 · 08-29-2022, 05:40 AM

This is probably the best explanation of sway bar impact on a normal car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFGkZNrNTIE&t=12m16s
(annotated to the main point at 12min 16sec, no need to watch it all, but I recommend)

gomer_110 · 08-29-2022, 05:33 PM

I always love when this topic comes up from an entertainment standpoint although this time, I'll just sit back and not feed the trolls.

AH370Z · 08-29-2022, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomer_110

I always love when this topic comes up from an entertainment standpoint although this time, I'll just sit back and not feed the trolls.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomer_110

The 370's need the stiffest front sway bar you can find to improve the handling. The Hotchkis is just a stiffer bar than the Eibach.

There is no sway bar offered for our car that will make the ride quality so bad you wouldn't drive it on the street. The only reason mine doesn't see more street driving is the custom front splitter that would get damaged by many of the roads in my area.

I'm not going to enter into a debate I'm simply highlighting that in my real world experience with one of the best street tyres you can run, a street setup suspension with oem stagger. I have proven that with a whiteline bar on stiffest setting which is no where near as stiff as hotchkis, understeers like a pig. I will go as far as to say if anyone who actually attempted to go around a tight corner in the wet with some speed would surly be off into the ditch or oncoming traffic. Unfortunatly what I see on forums is too much advise that is just regurgitated from what they have read from others and very little from real world experience. I'm not saying you dont have any but if we just focus on the above scenario and setups which most are running it's not ideal in my opinion

Averying · 08-29-2022, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AH370Z

I'm not going to enter into a debate I'm simply highlighting that in my real world experience with one of the best street tyres you can run, a street setup suspension with oem stagger. I have proven that with a whiteline bar on stiffest setting which is no where near as stiff as hotchkis, understeers like a pig. I will go as far as to say if anyone who actually attempted to go around a tight corner in the wet with some speed would surly be off into the ditch or oncoming traffic. Unfortunatly what I see on forums is too much advise that is just regurgitated from what they have read from others and very little from real world experience. I'm not saying you dont have any but if we just focus on the above scenario and setups which most are running it's not ideal in my opinion

Good for you for testing the sway bars for yourself and not assuming everything you see on these forums is correct. Most car info online is incorrect nowadays… although the tips and tricks from OG members on here is usually safe to trust!

I’m in the process of figuring out my sway bar setup for myself. Hotchis rear bar felt too stiff, running a few autox events without it. Will probably go back to OEM rear bar

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

OptionZero · 08-29-2022, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AH370Z

I'm not going to enter into a debate I'm simply highlighting that in my real world experience with one of the best street tyres you can run, a street setup suspension with oem stagger. I have proven that with a whiteline bar on stiffest setting which is no where near as stiff as hotchkis, understeers like a pig. I will go as far as to say if anyone who actually attempted to go around a tight corner in the wet with some speed would surly be off into the ditch or oncoming traffic. Unfortunatly what I see on forums is too much advise that is just regurgitated from what they have read from others and very little from real world experience. I'm not saying you dont have any but if we just focus on the above scenario and setups which most are running it's not ideal in my opinion

Camber adjustment in front?

With stock nonadjustable arms, you’re understeering

AH370Z · 08-29-2022, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OptionZero

Camber adjustment in front?

With stock nonadjustable arms, you’re understeering

Exactly so why would you run a stiff bar thats only going to exagerate that.

With my setup I was running Swift springs in front which naturally brought the front camber to -1.5. It still understeered untill I went from stiffest to softest on the whiteline bar

Spooler · 08-30-2022, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AH370Z

I'm not going to enter into a debate I'm simply highlighting that in my real world experience with one of the best street tyres you can run, a street setup suspension with oem stagger. I have proven that with a whiteline bar on stiffest setting which is no where near as stiff as hotchkis, understeers like a pig. I will go as far as to say if anyone who actually attempted to go around a tight corner in the wet with some speed would surly be off into the ditch or oncoming traffic. Unfortunatly what I see on forums is too much advise that is just regurgitated from what they have read from others and very little from real world experience. I'm not saying you dont have any but if we just focus on the above scenario and setups which most are running it's not ideal in my opinion

LOL, really. Drove mine for several years in the rain. No issues. We get torrential downpours where I live. I love to drive in the rain on the edge. Makes my day. You just have no idea what you are talking about or you just flat out can't drive.

AH370Z · 08-30-2022, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spooler

LOL, really. Drove mine for several years in the rain. No issues. We get torrential downpours where I live. I love to drive in the rain on the edge. Makes my day. You just have no idea what you are talking about or you just flat out can't drive.

ok stig

Spooler · 08-30-2022, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AH370Z

ok stig

No, just a Georgia Redneck who loves to drive.

Jhill · 09-03-2022, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AH370Z

I'm not going to enter into a debate I'm simply highlighting that in my real world experience with one of the best street tyres you can run, a street setup suspension with oem stagger. I have proven that with a whiteline bar on stiffest setting which is no where near as stiff as hotchkis, understeers like a pig. I will go as far as to say if anyone who actually attempted to go around a tight corner in the wet with some speed would surly be off into the ditch or oncoming traffic. Unfortunatly what I see on forums is too much advise that is just regurgitated from what they have read from others and very little from real world experience. I'm not saying you dont have any but if we just focus on the above scenario and setups which most are running it's not ideal in my opinion

I actually did try the stiffest setting front and softest rear with my stillens on a wet track day with stock stagger just to see what everyone is talking about and concluded my original feeling that I do not need a super stiff front bar. front end was so incredibly loose and understeer I instantly put it full soft after 1st session. guess to each their own or maybe if I was squared but I don't see the need for a 200+% increase in the front. the new z1 bars look interesting as its close to the hotchkiss yet allows some adjustment.

Averying · 09-03-2022, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhill

I actually did try the stiffest setting front and softest rear with my stillens on a wet track day with stock stagger just to see what everyone is talking about and concluded my original feeling that I do not need a super stiff front bar. front end was so incredibly loose and understeer I instantly put it full soft after 1st session. guess to each their own or maybe if I was squared but I don't see the need for a 200+% increase in the front. the new z1 bars look interesting as its close to the hotchkiss yet allows some adjustment.

Yea I def wish my Hotchkis front had some adjustability. Weird that their rear bar has it but not the front

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

DarkJak · 09-03-2022, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Averying

Yea I def wish my Hotchkis front had some adjustability. Weird that their rear bar has it but not the front

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The new Z1 front does, with 2 holes:
Front Bar Stiffness (Over Stock)
Hole 1: 114% Increase
Hole 2: 165% Increase

Unsure how it compares to Hotchkis since they do stiffness vs various G's sways, and even though they are both hollow with 35mm OD's, hole placement is a big difference.

08-29-2022, 03:43 AM	#2 (permalink)
Rusty Ronin Samurai - Assassin Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 69 Posts: 35,515 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684439	The stiff front sway bar was tested by Doren Racing. When they ran a 370RC in the Pirelli Cup. Their race driver was a member on here. Dwnshift, pro driver. And others have proven that it works. I, for one. I'm a Class C driver. gomer_110 likes this. __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

08-29-2022, 05:40 AM	#4 (permalink)
filip00 Track Member Join Date: May 2021 Location: slovenia Posts: 579 Drives: 370z pack Rep Power: 125428	This is probably the best explanation of sway bar impact on a normal car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFGkZNrNTIE&t=12m16s (annotated to the main point at 12min 16sec, no need to watch it all, but I recommend) AH370Z likes this.

08-29-2022, 05:33 PM	#5 (permalink)
gomer_110 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Perrysburg, OH Posts: 17,992 Drives: '11 Nismo #528 GM Rep Power: 36941	I always love when this topic comes up from an entertainment standpoint although this time, I'll just sit back and not feed the trolls. Rusty and BettyZ like this. __________________ '11 370Z Nismo #528 Fast Intentions \| Stillen \| Motordyne \| Uprev \| CSF \| Zspeed \| Z1 Motorsports \| AST \| Swift \| SPC \| SPL \| Whiteline \| Hotchkis \| Bride \| Schroth \| Robispec \| Cusco \| Nismo \| Volk \| Forgestar \| Hoosier \| RJM '17 Titan Bone Stock

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