Smooth Throttle for UpRev

Sh0velMan · 11-27-2012, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIGItonium

Nearest tuner for me is in KC, which is 3 hours away. I wouldn't mind having Z1 tune it after the new upgrades. [sigh]

I guess that puts you in the Wichita area? Or somewhere way out west?

I would say you might as well make a road trip to Austin and have Jared @ Uprev tune it. Prolly what I would do.

DIGItonium · 11-27-2012, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh0velMan

I guess that puts you in the Wichita area? Or somewhere way out west?

I would say you might as well make a road trip to Austin and have Jared @ Uprev tune it. Prolly what I would do.

Yup, Wichita. I'll definitely get a tune once the upgrades are done. No one in the DFW area? My friends and I frequent that area [for food].

Too bad a software switch can't be wired to turn off ETC (like VDC button). Haha, this car definitely needs an R-mode lol.

Sh0velMan · 11-27-2012, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIGItonium

Yup, Wichita. I'll definitely get a tune once the upgrades are done. No one in the DFW area? My friends and I frequent that area [for food].

Too bad a software switch can't be wired to turn off ETC (like VDC button). Haha, this car definitely needs an R-mode lol.

There are some okay tuners here. T1 in Rowlet would probably be good enough. I just know the process they follow @ Uprev in Austin is very methodical and they hold on to all the data for safe-keeping, should you need updates in the future.

DIGItonium · 11-27-2012, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baer383

When I took my other car apart I saw several injectors leaking however I fixed it when I put the kit on my Nismo so starting was alott easier to dial in, I didn't think about that until you said it.

When you fixed it, did you use the same GTM-supplied injectors or go with something else? How about switching to Injector Dynamics down the road?

Sorry for going OT, but who knows since we're on the topic about fuel delivery and throttle response. [shrugs]

Baer383 · 11-27-2012, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIGItonium

When you fixed it, did you use the same GTM-supplied injectors or go with something else? How about switching to Injector Dynamics down the road?

Sorry for going OT, but who knows since we're on the topic about fuel delivery and throttle response. [shrugs]

No I just reversed the order on how the injectors are installed,when I put them in my Nismo I put the injector in the intake first then put the fuel rail on top bolted it down connected the battery and turned the key on to look for leaks.

Coon-azz · 11-27-2012, 04:30 PM

I'm not sure if this helps with the basics on the VVEL motors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i1rB...eature=related

I guess my question after seeing this is what does Nissan mean by "high Torque" cause I dont think the 370 has "high torque" at all.

elperuano · 11-27-2012, 05:51 PM

^ lol @ screen name

wstar · 11-27-2012, 06:21 PM

Mostly VVEL is a fuel-efficiency hack, IMHO. The problem with a solid cam is you can either profile it for good torque, or profile it for good MPG, but it's kinda hard to get both. VVEL lets them meet the MPG standards that the feds and/or consumers want and still deliver power when you get on the throttle.

The VQ37 is pretty decent on torque given it's a 3.7L V6, but it likes to be in the upper rev range. I know most people in normal conversation talk about "torque" as being the low-RPM stuff and HP as the high-RPM stuff, but HP is just Torque*RPM. You can't have good power output in general without first having decent torque somewhere in the rev range

.

Sh0velMan · 11-27-2012, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

Mostly VVEL is a fuel-efficiency hack, IMHO. The problem with a solid cam is you can either profile it for good torque, or profile it for good MPG, but it's kinda hard to get both. VVEL lets them meet the MPG standards that the feds and/or consumers want and still deliver power when you get on the throttle.

The VQ37 is pretty decent on torque given it's a 3.7L V6, but it likes to be in the upper rev range. I know most people in normal conversation talk about "torque" as being the low-RPM stuff and HP as the high-RPM stuff, but HP is just Torque*RPM. You can't have good power output in general without first having decent torque somewhere in the rev range

.

VVEL does help a bit with MPG in some situations... But it is first and foremost a way for them to have huge lift and duration (for a stock motor) at high RPM and reasonable, smooth-idling, smooth throttle response performance at low RPM.

If you cammed our engines with cams having the profile of VVEL at maximum Lift and Duration, it would be pretty lumpy and soft on the bottom end. Not at all nice for driving around town, or with an automatic transmission.

Just look at the dynos we all have from these cars, torque curves that flat didn't exist before technologies like this.* We're living in the (albeit a little boring to drive) future, man!

*Other than N/A rotary power.

Baer383 · 12-16-2012, 08:30 PM

I made a new throttle map to remove issuses below 2200 RPM here is a screen shot of it ,it works great no more lag,I'm trying to get the Hex code up but so far my laptop isn't playing nice.

8064 81CC 82D1 844C 858C 86A4 8866 89D3 8B2C 8C76 8D7A 8DD5 8E29 8E74 8EB5 8ED8
8000 81A9 82B2 8433 8579 8696 8860 89D3 8B2F 8C7B 8D7E 8DD8 8E2C 8E76 8EB6 8ED8
7FBC 8187 8293 841A 8566 8688 885A 89D3 8B33 8C80 8D82 8DDC 8E2F 8E78 8EB8 8ED8
7FB0 8164 8273 8401 8553 867A 8854 89D3 8B36 8C85 8D86 8DDF 8E32 8E7A 8EB9 8ED8
7F8F 8141 8253 83E7 853F 866B 884E 89D3 8B3A 8C8A 8D8B 8DE3 8E35 8E7C 8EBA 8ED8
7F4F 811E 8234 83CE 852C 865D 8848 89D3 8B3E 8C8E 8D8F 8DE7 8E38 8E7E 8EBB 8ED8
7F27 80FC 8215 83B5 8518 864F 8842 89D3 8B41 8C93 8D93 8DEA 8E3B 8E80 8EBC 8ED8
7F2B 80D9 81F6 839C 8505 8640 883C 89D3 8B45 8C98 8D97 8DEE 8E3E 8E83 8EBD 8ED8
7EFC 80B7 81D7 8383 84F2 8632 8836 89D3 8B48 8C9D 8D9B 8DF1 8E41 8E85 8EBE 8ED8
7ED4 8094 81B8 836B 84DF 8624 8830 89D3 8B4C 8CA1 8D9F 8DF5 8E44 8E87 8EBF 8ED8
7ED4 8071 8198 8351 84CB 8615 882A 89D3 8B4F 8CA6 8DA3 8DF8 8E47 8E89 8EC0 8ED8
7ECA 804E 8179 8338 84B8 8607 8824 89D3 8B53 8CAB 8DA7 8DFC 8E49 8E8B 8EC2 8ED8
7E9A 802B 815A 831F 84A4 85F9 881E 89D3 8B57 8CB0 8DAB 8E00 8E4C 8E8D 8EC3 8ED8
7E64 7FFA 812D 82FC 8489 85E5 8816 89D3 8B5C 8CB7 8DB1 8E05 8E51 8E90 8EC4 8ED8
7D47 7EF7 8044 8241 83F8 857A 87E9 89D3 8B76 8CDA 8DD0 8E1F 8E66 8E9F 8ECD 8ED8

Z eliminator · 12-18-2012, 06:32 PM

would like to see your map.
does any body have a fuel map for full bolt ons. I would like to see what it looks like.
im haveing a nightmare making the z run with uprev, I had no prolems with the cobb.
thanks Z

Shamrock · 12-19-2012, 08:08 AM

Wstar are you saying to try the curve 2300 as opposed to the older "linear"

wstar · 12-19-2012, 08:42 AM

I was, yes. I've been running the Curve2300 map since I added that to the first post over a year ago, and it works great for me. The previous map I had published (which is Linear on the charts in the first post now), in practice produces a surge of responsiveness in the upper range of the pedal followed by a flat-spot, so it's just not as precise, predictable, and controllable as the Curve2300 one. The point of the Curve2300 map is to (a) solve the "ECU doesn't fully open the throttle at low revs" problem while also (b) providing a smooth, predictable response so that you can do nuanced throttle work and not be surprised by variations in the effect of a given amount of pedal travel in different parts of the range.

All of that said, though, none of this work has been updated for UpRev's latest findings a few months ago. They cracked at least some of the real VVEL control tables, and this mystery throttle table is undoubtedly tightly linked with those, and they probably know more about all of these related tables than they used to. At some point I need to take a look at what they've got and what it means for all of this.

Baer383 · 12-19-2012, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

I was, yes. I've been running the Curve2300 map since I added that to the first post over a year ago, and it works great for me. The previous map I had published (which is Linear on the charts in the first post now), in practice produces a surge of responsiveness in the upper range of the pedal followed by a flat-spot, so it's just not as precise, predictable, and controllable as the Curve2300 one. The point of the Curve2300 map is to (a) solve the "ECU doesn't fully open the throttle at low revs" problem while also (b) providing a smooth, predictable response so that you can do nuanced throttle work and not be surprised by variations in the effect of a given amount of pedal travel in different parts of the range.

All of that said, though, none of this work has been updated for UpRev's latest findings a few months ago. They cracked at least some of the real VVEL control tables, and this mystery throttle table is undoubtedly tightly linked with those, and they probably know more about all of these related tables than they used to. At some point I need to take a look at what they've got and what it means for all of this.

If you are referring to the throttle table above it has nothing to do with VVEL this is what I came up with to counter measure the bad throttle response below 2200 rpm,all I did was to get the throttle blades to open quickly.

wstar · 12-19-2012, 03:54 PM

They're definitely inter-related, since VVEL is what's really doing the throttling. Part of the reason the understanding of the throttle table was fuzzy back when I was working on this was precisely because the VVEL stuff wasn't yet figured out. I imagine someone at UpRev now understands the throttle stuff much better than before.

11-27-2012, 04:30 PM	#141 (permalink)
Coon-azz Track Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Fredericksburg,VA Posts: 689 Drives: '12 370z Sport DD Rep Power: 14	I'm not sure if this helps with the basics on the VVEL motors. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i1rB...eature=related I guess my question after seeing this is what does Nissan mean by "high Torque" cause I dont think the 370 has "high torque" at all. __________________ I don't care how slow you want to drive; I encourage it. JUST GET THE HELL OUT OF THE PASSING LANE YOU TUCK FARD!!! Last edited by Coon-azz; 11-27-2012 at 04:36 PM.

11-27-2012, 06:21 PM	#143 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	Mostly VVEL is a fuel-efficiency hack, IMHO. The problem with a solid cam is you can either profile it for good torque, or profile it for good MPG, but it's kinda hard to get both. VVEL lets them meet the MPG standards that the feds and/or consumers want and still deliver power when you get on the throttle. The VQ37 is pretty decent on torque given it's a 3.7L V6, but it likes to be in the upper rev range. I know most people in normal conversation talk about "torque" as being the low-RPM stuff and HP as the high-RPM stuff, but HP is just Torque*RPM. You can't have good power output in general without first having decent torque somewhere in the rev range . __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

12-16-2012, 08:30 PM	#145 (permalink)
Baer383 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Lawrenceville,Ga Posts: 4,293 Drives: My foot up your azz Rep Power: 29	I made a new throttle map to remove issuses below 2200 RPM here is a screen shot of it ,it works great no more lag,I'm trying to get the Hex code up but so far my laptop isn't playing nice. 8064 81CC 82D1 844C 858C 86A4 8866 89D3 8B2C 8C76 8D7A 8DD5 8E29 8E74 8EB5 8ED8 8000 81A9 82B2 8433 8579 8696 8860 89D3 8B2F 8C7B 8D7E 8DD8 8E2C 8E76 8EB6 8ED8 7FBC 8187 8293 841A 8566 8688 885A 89D3 8B33 8C80 8D82 8DDC 8E2F 8E78 8EB8 8ED8 7FB0 8164 8273 8401 8553 867A 8854 89D3 8B36 8C85 8D86 8DDF 8E32 8E7A 8EB9 8ED8 7F8F 8141 8253 83E7 853F 866B 884E 89D3 8B3A 8C8A 8D8B 8DE3 8E35 8E7C 8EBA 8ED8 7F4F 811E 8234 83CE 852C 865D 8848 89D3 8B3E 8C8E 8D8F 8DE7 8E38 8E7E 8EBB 8ED8 7F27 80FC 8215 83B5 8518 864F 8842 89D3 8B41 8C93 8D93 8DEA 8E3B 8E80 8EBC 8ED8 7F2B 80D9 81F6 839C 8505 8640 883C 89D3 8B45 8C98 8D97 8DEE 8E3E 8E83 8EBD 8ED8 7EFC 80B7 81D7 8383 84F2 8632 8836 89D3 8B48 8C9D 8D9B 8DF1 8E41 8E85 8EBE 8ED8 7ED4 8094 81B8 836B 84DF 8624 8830 89D3 8B4C 8CA1 8D9F 8DF5 8E44 8E87 8EBF 8ED8 7ED4 8071 8198 8351 84CB 8615 882A 89D3 8B4F 8CA6 8DA3 8DF8 8E47 8E89 8EC0 8ED8 7ECA 804E 8179 8338 84B8 8607 8824 89D3 8B53 8CAB 8DA7 8DFC 8E49 8E8B 8EC2 8ED8 7E9A 802B 815A 831F 84A4 85F9 881E 89D3 8B57 8CB0 8DAB 8E00 8E4C 8E8D 8EC3 8ED8 7E64 7FFA 812D 82FC 8489 85E5 8816 89D3 8B5C 8CB7 8DB1 8E05 8E51 8E90 8EC4 8ED8 7D47 7EF7 8044 8241 83F8 857A 87E9 89D3 8B76 8CDA 8DD0 8E1F 8E66 8E9F 8ECD 8ED8 DIGItonium, Motinatan and DarkJak like this. __________________ 2013 ZL1 754 rwhp 747 rwtq Last edited by Baer383; 01-11-2013 at 06:42 PM.

12-18-2012, 06:32 PM	#146 (permalink)
Z eliminator A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 1,659 Drives: 370 Z 7AT Sports Rep Power: 18	would like to see your map. does any body have a fuel map for full bolt ons. I would like to see what it looks like. im haveing a nightmare making the z run with uprev, I had no prolems with the cobb. thanks Z __________________ 12.343 @114.14 . 4.5 stroker motor is now being built. Dec 1 2015.

12-19-2012, 08:42 AM	#148 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	I was, yes. I've been running the Curve2300 map since I added that to the first post over a year ago, and it works great for me. The previous map I had published (which is Linear on the charts in the first post now), in practice produces a surge of responsiveness in the upper range of the pedal followed by a flat-spot, so it's just not as precise, predictable, and controllable as the Curve2300 one. The point of the Curve2300 map is to (a) solve the "ECU doesn't fully open the throttle at low revs" problem while also (b) providing a smooth, predictable response so that you can do nuanced throttle work and not be surprised by variations in the effect of a given amount of pedal travel in different parts of the range. All of that said, though, none of this work has been updated for UpRev's latest findings a few months ago. They cracked at least some of the real VVEL control tables, and this mystery throttle table is undoubtedly tightly linked with those, and they probably know more about all of these related tables than they used to. At some point I need to take a look at what they've got and what it means for all of this. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

11-27-2012, 05:51 PM	#142 (permalink)
elperuano A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Southwest FL Posts: 1,374 Drives: G37S Rep Power: 28	^ lol @ screen name

12-19-2012, 08:08 AM	#147 (permalink)
Shamrock Base Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Israel Posts: 215 Drives: 370z 2011 AT White Rep Power: 13	Wstar are you saying to try the curve 2300 as opposed to the older "linear"

12-19-2012, 03:54 PM	#150 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	They're definitely inter-related, since VVEL is what's really doing the throttling. Part of the reason the understanding of the throttle table was fuzzy back when I was working on this was precisely because the VVEL stuff wasn't yet figured out. I imagine someone at UpRev now understands the throttle stuff much better than before. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

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