Next Generation of NISMO Performance Announcement Coming 2/26

ImportConvert · 02-26-2013, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

There are huge misconceptions about GT-R's NOT being drivers cars... the purist perspective is usually a narrow perspective with self perpetuated biases... I couldn't even make GTR judgements till i actually push one to the limit.
My observations/perceptions tell me this car when pushed to its limit, is as exciting or even more exciting than an N/A RWD. But that is just an observation that i won't push as anything more.

3800lbs is kind of heavy, but this things are still pretty well balanced and boost really pushes this car hard. The AWD system on the Gt-R allows it some RWD capability. I would like to see some weight reduction on this car. 3500-3600lbs but, People that drive it never say it feels heavy. I'm sure weight reduction would just make it that much sicker.

I agree with everything you said. It's also completely meaningless to me, who doesn't race at the track or do HPDE's, or push anything to 100% of its limit. I'm not Randy Pobst, and I don't need a 360* panoramic tour of the block.

UNKNOWN_370 · 02-26-2013, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

Historically, the Z has performed better than everything in its bracket upon introduction. In 2003, I dare say it was better than the GT, and with the 2005GT, the Revup 350's were still better, and in 2008, the 370Z stomped everything available in its range.

I think Nissan is going to need to break the 400bhp barrier this go 'round. In the last 10 years, their actions point to them doing it. We will see.

HP is more of an american issue than a JDM issue. If they can push V8 performance numbers on paper while providing a 4 banger like ride they will succeed more than by just reaching some magic hp number to appease the market. 370hp on a 2800lb car would probably feel like more than 415hp on a 3200lb car.
That said, the real goal should be, 12.5 second quarters, staying above 1g, improving torque response and building a lightweight platform with grippy tires and wide wheel width... Which hp number does it? That's a secondary issue.

gomer_110 · 02-26-2013, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

HP is more of an american issue than a JDM issue. If they can push V8 performance numbers on paper while providing a 4 banger like ride they will succeed more than by just reaching some magic hp number to appease the market. 370hp on a 2800lb car would probably feel like more than 415hp on a 3200lb car.
That said, the real goal should be, 12.5 second quarters, staying above 1g, improving torque response and building a lightweight platform with grippy tires and wide wheel width... Which hp number does it? That's a secondary issue.

Although "wide" is not a great thing for road going cars overseas as when I was in Japan the lanes and roads are a little on the narrow side.

ImportConvert · 02-26-2013, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

HP is more of an american issue than a JDM issue. If they can push V8 performance numbers on paper while providing a 4 banger like ride they will succeed more than by just reaching some magic hp number to appease the market. 370hp on a 2800lb car would probably feel like more than 415hp on a 3200lb car.
That said, the real goal should be, 12.5 second quarters, staying above 1g, improving torque response and building a lightweight platform with grippy tires and wide wheel width... Which hp number does it? That's a secondary issue.

I said is much in another post and agree 100%, but HP sells cars, here in America and Nissan isn't selling crap. It's the same reason all these forumites froth at the mouth over the GT-R's mid-2's 0-60. They love the numbers game, even though that's not at all what the car is about in the least.

JungleZ · 02-26-2013, 06:20 PM

Not interested in gtr, are you guys even worried the next g z will be a disaster? They barely sell them right now..

ImportConvert · 02-26-2013, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JungleZ

Not interested in gtr, are you guys even worried the next g z will be a disaster? They barely sell them right now..

I don't care what it is, I refuse to buy another Nissan, but I am sure that on paper it will perform better than the current model, Nissan usually does accomplish that.

UNKNOWN_370 · 02-27-2013, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JungleZ

Not interested in gtr, are you guys even worried the next g z will be a disaster? They barely sell them right now..

I'm really worried brother... I want more than anything for the Z to be a huge competitor in the next gen market. We never addressed the things we should've and what we did address it took too long.

That said. I don't see this current Z as a complete disaster and for whatever reason the American media felt they needed to? I think the Z's shortcomings are over-exaggerated. BUT, we need a formula that has to be bulletproof.

1. Much lighter weight (2800-3000lb range through alum &CF usage expansion)
2. An automatic transmission that can hold up to 500rwhp
3. A smoother short shifting manual.
4. Maintain or improve the 1g/1.01g of grip we currently have
5. Universal brake cooling for all models
6. A body design that can support over 180mph top speeds w/o body kit.
7. A simplified yet very high quality interior.
8. Squeeze an extra foot of trunk space
9. Look at michelin PSS as standard sport tires.
10. Maintain sport pkg width on tires and continue Rays wheel support.
11. Akebono needs to improve on weight reduction and ventilation on the next sport brake.
12. Use high torque F.I. Motor
13. Keep prices as reasonable as possible.

Stay away from

1. electric steering.
2. electric handbrakes
3. Too much digital shyt
4.Adding a clock in the triple gauge cluster

SS_Firehawk · 02-27-2013, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

I'm really worried brother... I want more than anything for the Z to be a huge competitor in the next gen market. We never addressed the things we should've and what we did address it took too long.

That said. I don't see this current Z as a complete disaster and for whatever reason the American media felt they needed to? I think the Z's shortcomings are over-exaggerated. BUT, we need a formula that has to be bulletproof.

1. Much lighter weight (2800-3000lb range through alum &CF usage expansion)
2. An automatic transmission that can hold up to 500rwhp
3. A smoother short shifting manual.
4. Maintain or improve the 1g/1.01g of grip we currently have
5. Universal brake cooling for all models
6. A body design that can support over 180mph top speeds w/o body kit.
7. A simplified yet very high quality interior.
8. Squeeze an extra foot of trunk space
9. Look at michelin PSS as standard sport tires.
10. Maintain sport pkg width on tires and continue Rays wheel support.
11. Akebono needs to improve on weight reduction and ventilation on the next sport brake.
12. Use high torque F.I. Motor
13. Keep prices as reasonable as possible.

Stay away from

1. electric steering.
2. electric handbrakes
3. Too much digital shyt
4.Adding a clock in the triple gauge cluster

What you are describing is a corvette. And all that will turn into the price of a Corvette. Electric power steering is already on the vehicle. And They have no reason to make another transmission that can hold 500whp that what is on the GTR. Manufacturers build to a requirement and there is no incentive to use the expensive parts needed to upgrade their 7sp to hold that kind of power. In reality, it's torque that breaks things, not horsepower.

The FM platform is made of steel, it's the main reason Z's weigh 32-3300lbs. Switch that to aluminum and weight will go down, but expect prices to jump. Lightweight cars don't need a lot of torque. If weight is dropping to your 2800-3000 lbs, 300lbft would feel like a lot. I do agree that the Z would be better on different tires. PSS's, Re11's AD08's, a serious track tire if it's a SP or Nismo. I don't think a base model would need all the extra track cooling things you want, but I can def see it on sport and Nismo models.

UNKNOWN_370 · 02-27-2013, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

What you are describing is a corvette. And all that will turn into the price of a Corvette. Electric power steering is already on the vehicle. And They have no reason to make another transmission that can hold 500whp that what is on the GTR. Manufacturers build to a requirement and there is no incentive to use the expensive parts needed to upgrade their 7sp to hold that kind of power. In reality, it's torque that breaks things, not horsepower.

The FM platform is made of steel, it's the main reason Z's weigh 32-3300lbs. Switch that to aluminum and weight will go down, but expect prices to jump. Lightweight cars don't need a lot of torque. If weight is dropping to your 2800-3000 lbs, 300lbft would feel like a lot. I do agree that the Z would be better on different tires. PSS's, Re11's AD08's, a serious track tire if it's a SP or Nismo. I don't think a base model would need all the extra track cooling things you want, but I can def see it on sport and Nismo models.

1. Electric steering is on the Vette. I said we need to stay away from that. Which would equal cost reduction
2. I said increase usage of CF and Alum. Not build the car of Alum and CF. The vette chassis is all aluminum.
3. I when i said more torque, notice I didn't specify Hp and TQ numbers because I don't even know what They friggin plan on putting in the Z.
But, if you are going to maintain or increase the grip on the current car???? Torque will help alot. I like the fact that the Z on launch feels like a muscle car. And I don't want it to feel like a BRZ. So torque for me means near equal number to its HP rating. ie. 320hp/320lbs tq. On 3k lbs? That don't mean shyt.
The vette is 3100 lbs w/a shytload of torque. As it stands right now. Our cars are heavier. A $3,000 price increase for a competitive car? I'm not crying.
4. simplifying the interior as far as computer BS should save a lot of money over the current car. No need for $2200 nav options when we can have a simplified $800 unit. things enthusiasts DONT need. We dont need electric doo dads like elec steering and brakes either. All costly fluff.

Keep the money in the chassis and sport pkges.

SS_Firehawk · 02-27-2013, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

1. Electric steering is on the Vette. I said we need to stay away from that. Which would equal cost reduction
2. I said increase usage of CF and Alum. Not build the car of Alum and CF. The vette chassis is all aluminum.
3. I when i said more torque, notice I didn't specify Hp and TQ numbers because I don't even know what They friggin plan on putting in the Z.
But, if you are going to maintain or increase the grip on the current car???? Torque will help alot. I like the fact that the Z on launch feels like a muscle car. And I don't want it to feel like a BRZ. So torque for me means near equal number to its HP rating. ie. 320hp/320lbs tq. On 3k lbs? That don't mean shyt.
The vette is 3100 lbs w/a shytload of torque. As it stands right now. Our cars are heavier. A $3,000 price increase for a competitive car? I'm not crying.
4. simplifying the interior as far as computer BS should save a lot of money over the current car. No need for $2200 nav options when we can have a simplified $800 unit. things enthusiasts DONT need. We dont need electric doo dads like elec steering and brakes either. All costly fluff.

Keep the money in the chassis and sport pkges.

We have a variable electric steering unit in our cars. Electric power steering has also gotten very inexpensive, improves gas mileage, and horsepower. I don't see manufacturers retaining hydraulic. If the base price for a Z is 33k and the base price for a Vette is closer to 50k, that's significant. If we use the Nismo instead, we are still off by around 8k. If you propose to reduce weight by 200-400lbs without switching to an aluminum chassis, it's impossible with the safety regulations. The use of carbon fiber is incredibly cost prohibitive and will send the price through the roof. Affordable carbon fiber is a relative term, and the cost for OEM's to use it is still very high. Regarding the NAV unit, like you said, it is an option. We don't need it, we have phones. The rest of the car world is turning their nav systems all fancy, if Nissan does not improve their tech side, it will only be another pitfall. The Vette has a lot of avenues to recoup development funds. The have their own racing team, and parts sharing is very high. There is no import tax to contend with and they build 10's of thousands a year. The Z doesn't make Nissan enough money on the Z to make a dedicated chassis. Now they can price a Nismo Z 10-20,000 higher than a normal one, make that chassis aluminum, throw a bunch of go fast parts and have that go battle with the serious fish in the business. Then make a base model with more basic amenities and reduced power to hit the low end of the market ($30k) A lot of this is just my opinion on the matter. I wish the same things are you do, but it will be far fetched to see some of it come to fruition.

UNKNOWN_370 · 02-27-2013, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

We have a variable electric steering unit in our cars. Electric power steering has also gotten very inexpensive, improves gas mileage, and horsepower. I don't see manufacturers retaining hydraulic. If the base price for a Z is 33k and the base price for a Vette is closer to 50k, that's significant. If we use the Nismo instead, we are still off by around 8k. If you propose to reduce weight by 200-400lbs without switching to an aluminum chassis, it's impossible with the safety regulations. The use of carbon fiber is incredibly cost prohibitive and will send the price through the roof. Affordable carbon fiber is a relative term, and the cost for OEM's to use it is still very high. Regarding the NAV unit, like you said, it is an option. We don't need it, we have phones. The rest of the car world is turning their nav systems all fancy, if Nissan does not improve their tech side, it will only be another pitfall. The Vette has a lot of avenues to recoup development funds. The have their own racing team, and parts sharing is very high. There is no import tax to contend with and they build 10's of thousands a year. The Z doesn't make Nissan enough money on the Z to make a dedicated chassis. Now they can price a Nismo Z 10-20,000 higher than a normal one, make that chassis aluminum, throw a bunch of go fast parts and have that go battle with the serious fish in the business. Then make a base model with more basic amenities and reduced power to hit the low end of the market ($30k) A lot of this is just my opinion on the matter. I wish the same things are you do, but it will be far fetched to see some of it come to fruition.

You make some valid points but in reality. A beefier auto will help increase sales of the Z. Nissan went on record in 09 bragging about there 440hp threshold. Sadly, it truly was only 400 and it didn't reallly help when modding out the car. So they obviously were trying to show that "Even the auto was modifiable." In that sense. Beefing up the auto would benefit them based on there own advertising BS.
I could have sworn we have Hydraulic steering units with electronic assist which is different from Electronic steering. That's something else though. Unnecessary debate...
Lastly, our suspension, engine hood and crossbeams are aluminum right now. Our radiator housing and drive-shaft is carbon fiber. I'm sure it won't hurt to further increase this usage by another 15% while figuring out a way to use less steel on the chassis. Going all aluminum again is something else... and i agree it should go with the Nismo. Nismo is it's own racing division and it's about to expand greatly starting this year. Our cars aren't due for about 18 months. Funding can be pulled from the bread and butter vehicles Nissan currently runs and it's sharing of technology with mercedes. That merger isn't a one way street. Mercedes isn't giving us welfare. lol

all in all. Everything I said may not be able to happen first year. But nissan has an opportunity to create a world famous car. The Z name has held a lot of weight over the years, But was only able to be King for 6 of them (90-96) It's time to reclaim that.
A BRZ fighter won't do that. And if a BRZ fighter is what they build. The 370z will be my last Nissan for a while. It will be sad after having owned 6 Nissan and 2 infiniti vehicles. But my dollars will go somewhere else if they can't compete in a "REAL' sport arena and NOT some BRZ bullshyt.

JungleZ · 02-27-2013, 06:00 PM

Hey uknown your last paragraph is exactly how I feel, I don't want a freaking brz fighter, I want a proper entry level sports car. If they need to increase the price again at least improve instead of adding removing LEDs and fangs

MC · 02-27-2013, 06:39 PM

if they increase the price much the car is going to die. Its selling 450 a month

I want the Z35 to be what the BRZ is and isnt at the same time. you give me that same weight and proportioned car with 300hp for not exceeding 5K more than the BRZ and its a hit

JungleZ · 02-27-2013, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MC

if they increase the price much the car is going to die. Its selling 450 a month

I want the Z35 to be what the BRZ is and isnt at the same time. you give me that same weight and proportioned car with 300hp for 5K more and its a hit

I think they already know that it's dying, the guy already confirmed to jay Leno they have to make it lighter and more gas efficient. So I guess ya I don't see them increasing the price but nismo is expensive as hell don't they know that. Seems like they're all over the place.

UNKNOWN_370 · 02-27-2013, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MC

if they increase the price much the car is going to die. Its selling 450 a month

I want the Z35 to be what the BRZ is and isnt at the same time. you give me that same weight and proportioned car with 300hp for not exceeding 5K more than the BRZ and its a hit

In the most basic of conceptions it needs to follow some BRZ attributes. The weight and length mainly. But the power and features have to be an advancement of this Z. A 300hp car would be fine but it better be FI... I'm really hoping for 350hp minimum on that size and weight chassis. But a HP and feature direct competitor to the BRZ would be a fvckin joke when the Z34 is this powerful.

02-27-2013, 06:00 PM	#57 (permalink)
JungleZ Banned Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: orange county,ca Posts: 652 Drives: leased base z... Rep Power: 0	Hey uknown your last paragraph is exactly how I feel, I don't want a freaking brz fighter, I want a proper entry level sports car. If they need to increase the price again at least improve instead of adding removing LEDs and fangs UNKNOWN_370 likes this.

02-27-2013, 06:39 PM	#58 (permalink)
MC Moderator Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: NC Posts: 3,238 Drives: 2015 GTR NISMO Rep Power: 23	if they increase the price much the car is going to die. Its selling 450 a month I want the Z35 to be what the BRZ is and isnt at the same time. you give me that same weight and proportioned car with 300hp for not exceeding 5K more than the BRZ and its a hit __________________ 2015 GT-R N1SMO "THE ONE" Instagram MCGTRN1SMO Youtube MCGTRNISMO Last edited by MC; 02-27-2013 at 06:43 PM.

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02-26-2013, 06:20 PM	#50 (permalink)
JungleZ Banned Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: orange county,ca Posts: 652 Drives: leased base z... Rep Power: 0	Not interested in gtr, are you guys even worried the next g z will be a disaster? They barely sell them right now..