Nissan IM concept for those dreaming about Tesla

[UNKNOWN_370]

https://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/...onal-auto-show

For you guys that think Tezla is the second coming. Nissan has an AWD sports sedan EV concept.

Tezla seems to be the new YouTube pronunciation. Lol.

[ZCanadian]

With Ghosn’s ouster, there are a lot of opportunities ahead of Nissan. They need a captain who can cut the cable on the horrible Renault strategic partnership and move forward. I din’t know the history if that deal, and suspect that it was a last ditch effort to avoid some sort of catastrophe at the time (because, really, why would you if you didn’t have a gun to your head). But other than make Nissan an extremely unattractive takeover target, I don’t believe that it has done them any favours.

As for electrics, good on Nissan for jumping in (and in a big way according to that article). I don’t think that Tesla will be much of a force once mainstream makes start digging into this market. The Porsche Taycan will take a lot of wind out of the new Roadster sales. Volvo is gunning for all electric, and their record for SUV’s is recognized. Audi E-tron in sedan and SUV flavours will also make an impact.

I’m actually surprised at how quickly this is all evolving. And a bit scared. The infrastructure issues haven’t gone away...

K.

[Rusty]

By 2030, there will be no gasoline cars sold in Europe. So everyone is getting their chit together now.

[cossie1600]

Funny Tesla has a cost per kw advantage on everyone else by quite a bit of margin as they make their own battery. They have the infrastructure to sustain their own charging network. Everyone has been saying the big boys will start making their own EV cars, but not many have been able to. Guess what, there are only 8 200+ miles EV car at the moment and I am sure the margins are suspect at best. How are the regular car companies going to overcome the cost advantage? The luxury car company can use their brand to sell cars, but at what point are the sales going to stop when customers realize they don't have a charging network to use. I can drive a Tesla across country with stops along the highway, can't do it in a Leaf/Bolt/Jag/Hyundai without a detour to find a station. Heck, there might be spots they wont be able to do it at all. Also they currently take 2x longer to charge!

Nissan Leaf+
Chevy Bolt
Jaguar I-Pace
Kia/Hyundai Kona twins
Teslas (3)

You can see how dismal the sales numbers are for any EV cars not named Tesla.

https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/

Volvo and Jags combine to sell less than a $90K Model X in one month, the people who rave about them apparently don't buy them. It's like reading on the internet about manual station wagons or any manual cars, no one cares about it at this point.

[ZCanadian]

Outside of California, New York, and a fer isolated areas in between, you would still really have a hard time finding a convenient charge point for any PIEV. The network is expanding, but EV sales and charging station construction is a “chicken and egg” thing.

Companies not named “Tesla” also need to make money. Not sure why Elon doesn’t, but thus far the marke seems to put up with it. Not forever, though.

[cossie1600]

80% of the US population lives in urban area. I am not saying it is for everyone, but is it not okay to build a car that will benefit majority of the people?

Tesla spent a lot of money building their own charging network where everyone else have to rely on someone else to build them one. Is the network not a competitive advantage? How many years is it going to take to get another one going? Do you think it will be built overnight?

They made money for two quarters straight and a lot of cash are used for investing. I am not sure why it matters? Also it's not your money, I am not sure why you would care.

https://www.marketwatch.com/investin...ials/cash-flow

[Rusty]

I drive cross country a lot with my motorhome. Mostly on Interstate 70 , 80 and 90/94. I tell you this. You can't drive a EV across the country. As there is NO charging stations within 200 miles of one another on the interstates. The charging stations are in the bigger cities and towns. You get out in the midwest. Have fun walking.

And I just read an article about EV's and the weather. This last cold spell killed the batteries in them. When the temps get down to zero. They lose their charge quickly. The mileage goes from 200 to less then 100. Depending on how cold it gets. When the temps dropped to -10F and less. Forget about driving. On the flip side. The batteries don't like temps over 100F either. Higher the temp, less mileage per charge. Part of the problem is in those two temps. The HVAC has to work harder to keep you happy. But at the same time drains the battery that much faster.

[cossie1600]

There are no chargers for every other EV car except Tesla, they can do it because they spent the money to build a network. With the exception of North Dakota, I think Tesla has a station within 200 miles of every interstate travel. You can see the latest map.

https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&sea...charger&zoom=6

Car will certain lose range in cold winter, but 100 miles is still a lot for normal folks. One of my EV car does 50 miles, it makes it to and from work everyday.

Originally Posted by Rusty

I drive cross country a lot with my motorhome. Mostly on Interstate 70 , 80 and 90/94. I tell you this. You can't drive a EV across the country. As there is NO charging stations within 200 miles of one another on the interstates. The charging stations are in the bigger cities and towns. You get out in the midwest. Have fun walking.

And I just read an article about EV's and the weather. This last cold spell killed the batteries in them. When the temps get down to zero. They lose their charge quickly. The mileage goes from 200 to less then 100. Depending on how cold it gets. When the temps dropped to -10F and less. Forget about driving. On the flip side. The batteries don't like temps over 100F either. Higher the temp, less mileage per charge. Part of the problem is in those two temps. The HVAC has to work harder to keep you happy. But at the same time drains the battery that much faster.

[God-Speed]

Oh Crap!!!

[ZCanadian]

Originally Posted by Rusty

I drive cross country a lot with my motorhome. Mostly on Interstate 70 , 80 and 90/94. I tell you this. You can't drive a EV across the country. As there is NO charging stations within 200 miles of one another on the interstates. The charging stations are in the bigger cities and towns. You get out in the midwest. Have fun walking.

And I just read an article about EV's and the weather. This last cold spell killed the batteries in them. When the temps get down to zero. They lose their charge quickly. The mileage goes from 200 to less then 100. Depending on how cold it gets. When the temps dropped to -10F and less. Forget about driving. On the flip side. The batteries don't like temps over 100F either. Higher the temp, less mileage per charge. Part of the problem is in those two temps. The HVAC has to work harder to keep you happy. But at the same time drains the battery that much faster.

Can't you just borrow a can of electrons and keep going?
Or maybe stop at WalMart and buy all the 9V transistor batteries off the display?


No question that real world results don't emulate what the brochure says. This isn't entirely restricted to electric vehicles, though. Still, that's a lot easier to deal with if your ICE engined car doesn't get quite the advertised mileage. You just stop for gas a mile or two earlier.

And yes, cossie1600, it IS my money as a matter of fact. Anyone living in a country, state or province which has subsidized Tesla shareholders or purchasers through government handouts and incentives, has a right to be concerned. Especially when (not if) Tesla fails and some vulture capital company picks up what's left of my generous tax donation to Elon at pennies on the dollar.

FURTHERMORE, the rest of us still pay road taxes on gas whereas electric owners currently pay none at all. We get the privilege of paying higher utility bills or taxes because infrastructure needs to be intensified to handle charging demand (not yet, but that will come as EV penetration increases), including everything from distribution lines to transformers to generation, even though we don't contribute to the extra demand. None of this is cheap. And it also comes at an environmental cost that isn't factored into the "green EV" argument.

[JARblue]

[cossie1600]

Tesla repaid the loan from the feds with interest a few years back. The EV federal tax credit are easily offset by the sales tax you have to pay. My sales tax bill cost more than a used Z. I don't know who is getting a free ride here?

Since EV cars mostly being charged at night, they lead to no real increase in grid utilization. If anything, they are maximizing inefficiency of the grid. I am not sure where you are seeing new powerplants being built, there must be a huge boom in Canada? If you want to talk about cost, what about all the subsidy we throw at the oil company? Let's not forget about the warming of the climate, which leads to bigger and strong storms? Heck, the polar bears are out of places to live. Do you want to kill them all too or do you prefer them to suck on your exhaust pipe and just suffocate? You want cheap oil from frecking, sure, but be sure to deal with the earthquakes too.

It's been proven time and time again the overall greenhouse emission from EV cars are lower than a gas car. Just because you are inconsiderate or you don't like it, you don't have to talk down at it.

Originally Posted by ZCanadian

Can't you just borrow a can of electrons and keep going?
Or maybe stop at WalMart and buy all the 9V transistor batteries off the display?


No question that real world results don't emulate what the brochure says. This isn't entirely restricted to electric vehicles, though. Still, that's a lot easier to deal with if your ICE engined car doesn't get quite the advertised mileage. You just stop for gas a mile or two earlier.

And yes, cossie1600, it IS my money as a matter of fact. Anyone living in a country, state or province which has subsidized Tesla shareholders or purchasers through government handouts and incentives, has a right to be concerned. Especially when (not if) Tesla fails and some vulture capital company picks up what's left of my generous tax donation to Elon at pennies on the dollar.

FURTHERMORE, the rest of us still pay road taxes on gas whereas electric owners currently pay none at all. We get the privilege of paying higher utility bills or taxes because infrastructure needs to be intensified to handle charging demand (not yet, but that will come as EV penetration increases), including everything from distribution lines to transformers to generation, even though we don't contribute to the extra demand. None of this is cheap. And it also comes at an environmental cost that isn't factored into the "green EV" argument.

[cossie1600]

Originally Posted by JARblue

They already have it

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by cossie1600

Tesla repaid the loan from the feds with interest a few years back. The EV federal tax credit are easily offset by the sales tax you have to pay. My sales tax bill cost more than a used Z. I don't know who is getting a free ride here?

Since EV cars mostly being charged at night, they lead to no real increase in grid utilization. If anything, they are maximizing inefficiency of the grid. I am not sure where you are seeing new powerplants being built, there must be a huge boom in Canada? If you want to talk about cost, what about all the subsidy we throw at the oil company? Let's not forget about the warming of the climate, which leads to bigger and strong storms? Heck, the polar bears are out of places to live. Do you want to kill them all too or do you prefer them to suck on your exhaust pipe and just suffocate? You want cheap oil from frecking, sure, but be sure to deal with the earthquakes too.

It's been proven time and time again the overall greenhouse emission from EV cars are lower than a gas car. Just because you are inconsiderate or you don't like it, you don't have to talk down at it.

I retired from power generation. Was a senior CRO at a power plant, that had direct contact with the grid operator. We are losing more generation then what is being replaced. Wind and solar is not the answer. One 2,200 MW nuke plant takes up about 150 acres. To have a solar farm that produces 2,200 MW would take up about 5 square miles. Land that you can't use for nothing else. If it was cloudy, raining, or snowing. You would have about zero output. Wind farms would take up about 10 square miles of land. They work best with a speed of about 22 mph. At 26 mph, they shut down and lock into position so that they don't turn. They blow apart just over 30 mph. Less then 22 mph, less output. You can't count on the wind to blow steady all the time. You have land between the windmills to use. But cattle don't like being around them, plus bird kill from the blades. In the next 10 years. Most of coal fired and about 1/4 of the nuke plants will be retired. There is very little construction scheduled for new power plants. It takes about 5 years to get the permits in place for a natural gas plant. Nuke plant takes 20 years and 10 billion dollars for permits. By 2030 Brownouts and blackouts will be the normal.

Wind and solar plants get fed subsidies. Take away the subsidies and you won't see any wind and solar plants. They all operate at a loss.

There is 2 peak periods of electric usage during the day. Morning from 5:30 am to 9:30~10am. And evening. 4:30 to 9:30pm. Those 2 periods are peak generation, and peak prices per KW. After midnight, from 1am to 5am is the less generation, and cheapest KW.

How much do you know about magnetic reversal? The earth is entering one now. Our magnetic shield is getting weaker. A nice solar flare will put us back to horse and buggy overnight. Add to this is the sun is in a solar minimum. No sunspots. Which weakens the magnetic shield of the earth that much more. Got e-mails all the time from the grid operators about the suns conditions. They had to pay attention to the sun and solar flares so that they could take preemptive action to prevent grid down.

Climate changes all the time. It's not warming like they want you to believe. Follow the sunspots like the grid operators do. The sun rules the weather. Not CO2. CO2 levels are between 400 to 500 ppm now. In the past, it has been high as 2,000 ppm with the dino's. Extinction level is 200 ppm. We are not to far away from that now. In 2007, there was just over 5,000 polar bears. Now, there is over 30,000 polar bears. There is more ice in the arctic now then in the past 30 years. The global warmers only use data back to 1970. They refuse to use data back to the 1800's.

How much do you know about magnetic reversal? The earth is entering one now. Our magnetic shield is getting weaker. A nice solar flare will put us back to horse and buggy overnight. Add to this is the sun is in a solar minimum. No sunspots. Which weakens the magnetic shield of the earth that much more.

[JARblue]

Green initiatives are pushed through all the time by idiots that just want to make a "statement" (Thanks, Al Gore!! ). Of course, most of the green initiatives that get pushed through are long term losing propositions. They generally cost 10x or more the cost of traditional energy sources and the ROI time frame is at best 5x as long as that traditional energy source that cost 1/10 to begin with. Stupid people make stupid decisions