anyone getting MSRP (or below)

davidyan

Ed- with all due respect, it is as close as what really goes on. Perhaps your dealer was managed very well to drive solid profit margins. I'm glad the business worked out well on your end.

The way I described is exactly how I bought my 370Z. I have also helped numerous friends and relatives the exact same way to negotiate for their cars getting very similar deals and on occasion, even better deals. The reason some don't get those deals is because they either give in to fast when the salesman / closer counteroffers with a "meet me in the middle deal" or, the customer wants a color or option that only that one dealer has and they make it known that they must have it that way. Or, its possible that the dealer you work at is doing so well that they don't have to sell at invoice. Look at the pricing threads and you'll see how many people have paid invoice or even below.

Car negotiation tactics aside, my primary point was to highlight that he (the previous poster) shouldn't feel guilty paying invoice. Because when the dealer accepts that type of offer, they are doing exactly that i.e, accepting that the offer is something that they can live with. It might not be what they were hoping for but its not un-business friendly by any means.

Finally, its a business owner or executive's responsibility to manage their company profitably. Corporate pushes dealers to stock large volumes of inventory. Dealers try to sell as much as possible. If market forces mean that they get low margins, thats the way it is. Generally speaking, when making a product of any kind, a manufacturer has strict cost targets and based on the nature of the product they hope to drive enough customer value or demand to sell for a price much higher. If they can, they should. If they cant do it, they either:

- produced / stocked too much inventory or too many dealerships - think about why GM and Chrysler forced many dealers to close. Very sad but fair if you believe in a competitive market.
- did not create enough value in the product for the customer to pay that high price (DOUBTFUL that this is the case with the 370Z)
- too low of demand
- were not aggressive enough with the cost targets resulting in low profitability even at "high selling prices." All manufacturers focus on this- think about why they didn't give us oil coolers for instance. They were thinking the increase in cost of car by installing the cooler would not justify a higher selling price or more units sold for the average consumer. Only a few would pay more for this. How many of us have installed aftermarket coolers even given how much we all complain about oil temps? Very few. They were right from a business perspective for not including it.

The market dictates the price and they have to live with that or better find a way to manage the business. GM, Chrysler and even Toyota is dealing with that right now. The competitive market is also the reason why people living in places like New York, SF Bay Area or LA have to pay $1M + for an average looking house when people in the Midwest can get a gated estate for that price. I don't mean to come off strong, but this is just the way business works. For those dealers that can find a way to charge MSRP with no grief from the customer, more power to them.

edeeZee

I cringe at similar threads and posts like yours. They're unfounded and lack pragmatic steps. You never mentioned whether you ACTUALLY worked at a new car dealership. However, I did, and was friends with F&I and deskmen (salesmanagers). You digress too much with generalizations from simplistic "supply & demand" concepts from what econ classes teach--sorry bro, it's too vague and w/ all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about. I'm not here to flame.

So what's this contradiction w/ American cars being "oversupplied" thus leading to their heavy discounts i.e. "please buy me or else the big 3 will sink further," and your "doubtful this is the case w/ the 370"? This means 370's can't be whored out domestics can.

Writing superfluous posts like yours, especially, with a "scholarly" tone doesn't mean you're an expert at buying new cars. Those "for example, real estate in these areas" aren't analogous to the dynamics of car buying. Cars depreciate, real estate you aforementioned have an appreciative trend overall.

Sorry, your "expertise" isn't what really goes on, not even close. Too many generalizations and no specificity.

davidyan

Ed- I did say that I worked at a new car dealer in another post (Dodge). Also the best proof of what I'm saying is to look at the pricing threads. Why are so many people getting the prices I'm suggesting if its all false? I personally was at 600 below invoice for mine after only 30 - 45 min.

If you think I'm so ignorant which you came off as immediately after my FIRST post, then what specifically about it is wrong? I've also found other pricing posts you come off the same way. "I used to be a salesman, all false. Dealer wont sell below X. End of story" I do respect your input, but it needs to carry specificity as well.

I also don't mean to flame either but responded because you come off attacking rather than helping. Are you here to help him get a good price or just to defend your profession? No need to do that unless he comes to YOUR store. Let the Nissan dealer, whichever one he's shopping at defend their prices if you are helping him. If $500 - 1000 below invoice is too ridiculous of an offer for the 370Z, what price do you suggest he or others pay? What price did you pay personally using your experience as a salesman? Again, its the dealers job to manage profitably. No need to worry about his overhead, the sales guys commission etc. When salespeople sell cars do they worry about how many kids you have, your college fund, or your mortgage payment? That's why its the right thing to do to focus on the what others getting good deals are paying and try to do the same. Its the same reason why dealers try to figure out what their competitors are trying to sell the car for. If the offer is too low for the seller, they simply say no. If its too high for the customer, they do the same. What's the big deal? The customer should just focus on getting the best deal he can.

If they tell him NO, he can:

1) go somewhere else
2) just simply pay more if he doesn't like the hassle (some don't mind) and enjoy his new 370Z for what it is.
3) Play the back and forth game a little longer to get his price. He MAY succeed. He MAY fail.

ANYTHING TO LOSE HERE?? Nothings guaranteed of course, but the trends are again 500 - 1000 below. If someone others did it, why shouldn't he try too?

You are not any more specific either other than that you think its not possible and that you used to be a salesman. A lot of people do it.

It may not be any one of those factors but combined puts pressure on them. When I said "doubtful with the 370Z" relating to product value, there is no contradiction with the american cars. It means I didnt think it was that one factor affecting the Z, may have been others like the other points I made that you didnt quote.

YOUR dealer may have done very well but many are willing to sell below invoice (some significantly). The steps are specific and pragmatic. I wasnt trying to teach a course. I was suggesting to him the prices that people are paying are lower than he might intuitively think. Also see my other post (the one you didn't quote) where there were more specific reasons why a specific dealer would sell below.

The only thing simplistic is the car sales process. - Sales guy sits you down with the four square and quotes the MSRP presenting why that is what the car is worth. Also he asks for trade in, down payment if financing etc. Customer offers 1000 below invoice with no trade. He says NO WAY. You stick to your point. He brings in Manager and goes back and forth a little bit. Customer gets up tries to leave. They end up selling for 500 - 1000 below invoice after arguing for a while, IF THEY WANT TO SELL for that. To be a broken record, all i was pointing out is that many Nissan dealers are as evidenced by my own purchase experience and others here combined with how their business works. If I'm so ignorant, let me ask you what your F&I manager knows. He sells paint sealant signs the contract? I'm sure he sees a lot of prices but there are some below invoice.

Also, the analogy with real estate I made has nothing to do with appreciation/depreciation trends. I was stating that the market sets the prices. The point was that if the market price is high, then you pay a lot if its low, then you pay lower. Again, looking at the pricing threads, many people esp in the past 2 - 3 mos. have been at invoice or up to a $1000 below. Finally whats wrong with econ concepts, even if general, they drive what happens with prices and companies do use it along with their overall strategy to set product prices. In early 07 there was a debate on either CNN or NBC between the Century 21 (real estate brokerage) CEO and a Princeton Econ professor regarding how widespread the housing crisis was. The Century 21 CEO insisted it was related only to very small "pockets" or markets within the US whereas the Econ professor was arguing that it was widespread throughout looking at econ indicators and also he doesn't have the bias of being involved in the business. Look at what happened a year after that conversation.

edeeZee

Bro, chill with the superfluous posts. This ain't the O.J. trial reopened. Sorry, I won't read all your blabber. I see at the bottom "CNN, NBC Princeton econ prof...blah blah blah"-->loquacious fluff and no substance

I didn't mean to strike a nerve with you. But I did read the snippet where you mentioned reading all my other posts in how I presented myself as a "know-it-all" with my hackneyed "I'm a former car sales..."

I didn't know you were that vindicative and always had to be right? OK davidyan, you're right.

I was on the line, called my ups, did my follow ups, got my be-backs, closed the deals, sent the vehicle to the wash rack etc. I slapped the RS on the lower right windshield, blah blah blah. I know how to structure the 4-square too my friend. The one with MSRP on the upper left corner, down payment, month payment an trade-in. I did the 5-liner credit app too bro. Then I remember the deskman saying, 'switch them to a used car, they're roaches.'

You remind of one of my coworker at a dealer. Loquacious, talked my ears off if he felt I snubbed him or didn't take his talk seriously, etc. Grow thick skin, you need it on the line.