So just ordered my Stillen SC

Z&I · 09-22-2014, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikey1600

Interesting! let us know how you go with the SC'er swap

are you planning on e85 as well?

Will be putting it all back together hopefully starting in the next 2 weeks.
Still expecting some of the usual 'unforseen' delays along the way tho', but hopefully I will be able to get it to the track before the season closes.

I'll post when it's all finished.
No e85 in this area consistently so it will be tuned for 93.

Hope you are having fun with yours !!!

1slow370 · 09-23-2014, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z&I

Thanks for the update ... I had spoken with Bobby at CIN Motorsports with my plans to upgrade my SC'r and he recommended the V-2Ti over the V-7 for my application.

He had built a car for a client with the V-7, utilizing his own custom designed and manufactured blower bracket (to reduce bracket flex) , along with his own custom designed intake manifold and piping.

I would've gone for it then and there but he wasn't ready to sell it all as a package kit citing that it wasn't perfected to his liking just yet, and therefore still under development.

Have you seen CIN Motorsports 370Z Supercharger kit

He also told me that the V-7 was overkill unless I (like his customer) were planning to make 1,000 hp...which I wasn't

Thats when he told me of the V-2Ti and that it would 'fit right in' to my already existing Stillen set up, with only a few tweaks needed.
It would easily make 600 to 700 hp.

He did strongly suggest the the Stillen blower bracket be braced or reinforced as it would want to flex as the boost headed up towards 15 or so.

He also recommended the Gates Green Stripe serps as well.

All this free, friendly, and informative info from a man who was in the middle of race season and knee deep in deadlines.

I trust his advice, he's a man that's been there and done that.
And the more I thought about it, the more it was the logical choice.

If he ever does come out with that kit of his and he is satisfied enough to put his personal stamp of approval on it, I just may have to 'upgrade' once more

soo there we go v7 confirmed working, I would rather use a unit that I KNOW will be able to make more than enough power, and pulley or restrict it down to the power i want instead of trying to beat 600-700hp out of a unit designed for 400. the v7 can come with the hd highspeed bearing set as well so it will be mucho more reliable than the v3 case pushed to double it's designed power. The moar powah you demand from the charger the more it will load the bearings and gears that just weren't designed for it. Hell you can run the v7 cogged straight from the crank to completely eliminate all belt slip.

Z&I · 09-23-2014, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

soo there we go v7 confirmed working, I would rather use a unit that I KNOW will be able to make more than enough power, and pulley or restrict it down to the power i want instead of trying to beat 600-700hp out of a unit designed for 400. the v7 can come with the hd highspeed bearing set as well so it will be mucho more reliable than the v3 case pushed to double it's designed power. The moar powah you demand from the charger the more it will load the bearings and gears that just weren't designed for it. Hell you can run the v7 cogged straight from the crank to completely eliminate all belt slip.

Not doubting what you say re: the V-7, but there are other considerations to be made.
Bobby's bracket mounted the V-7 lower so that it would have less flex and also have sufficient clearance ... and he did configure the car with Gates green stripe serpentine belts and did not go cogged.
Again, he felt his prototype configuration wasn't perfected and he wasn't going to sell something he wasn't sure of.
So it wasn't an option and with no set date as to when it would be available he recommended the V-2 Ti that would fit right in to my existing set up.
Keep in mind I've had the stock motor blow after the V-3 Si impeller upgrade plus a 'few' other performance upgrades to keep up - at a sizable cost and with no return.
So at this point I'm happy here to get my car back together and running reliably with a reasonable power increase.
I want to get back on the horse, but need to cut my losses as well.
The more you push these cars - the more they require attention and maintenance - and the easier they can break...
Though I do plan to take it to the drag strip, Stillen put it this way; "the 370z wasn't designed to be a race car", and quite frankly, it's been digging it's heels in and making it a difficult project!
Hopefully it will all come together and I will be in the mid 11's before Christmas.
Great talking with you

1slow370 · 09-23-2014, 06:36 PM

So u upgraded the v3 saw no returns except a blown motor, and the plan now is to build the motor and try upgading the v3 again to solve it? Einstien once had a famous quote about that lol best of luck tho it sucks having your car down for extended periods of time.

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Pro4Jackster · 09-23-2014, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

So u upgraded the v3 saw no returns except a blown motor, and the plan now is to build the motor and try upgading the v3 again to solve it? Einstien once had a famous quote about that lol best of luck tho it sucks having your car down for extended periods of time.

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YSI trim = 1600 CFM - 1200 hp - not known if it fits, redesign odd shaped inlet or cut core support.
TI trim = 1400 CFM - 950 hp - fits, 0.25" larger inlet (hope to stretch Stillens odd intake boot and reuse.
SI trim = 1150 CFM - 775 hp - fits with no mods
SCI trim = 1050 CFM - 725 hp - comes with kit

I know you already know all of this based on your posts. But why do you recommend skipping the Ti trim? It seems like a perfect fit for a built motor Stillen Kit. It should be able to support 700 whp if you can get the Stillen framework to keep up. That is overkill for a streetcar. The fitment unknowns and cost of fitting a YSi don't seem to make sense to me. Is there a part of this equation I am overlooking?

1slow370 · 09-23-2014, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro4Jackster

YSI trim = 1600 CFM - 1200 hp - not known if it fits, redesign odd shaped inlet or cut core support.
TI trim = 1400 CFM - 950 hp - fits, 0.25" larger inlet (hope to stretch Stillens odd intake boot and reuse.
SI trim = 1150 CFM - 775 hp - fits with no mods
SCI trim = 1050 CFM - 725 hp - comes with kit

I know you already know all of this based on your posts. But why do you recommend skipping the Ti trim? It seems like a perfect fit for a built motor Stillen Kit. It should be able to support 700 whp if you can get the Stillen framework to keep up. That is overkill for a streetcar. The fitment unknowns and cost of fitting a YSi don't seem to make sense to me. Is there a part of this equation I am overlooking?

the v3 gear case is weak and its cfm numbers are overstated, the blower itself is meh before you even get to the crappy volute designs available for it. you run to big of a compressor to fast on a v3 and it will die eventually, the v4 has a better ratio, stronger gears, larger faster bearings and is built to be abused. i know lots of guys with v1 v2 and v3 blowers(or had lol) that the chargers have "broken in" and gotten louder cuz there bearings died. 928 mospo's main buisness is rebuilding the little **** case vortechs when guys realize they are blown. vortechs cfm numbers online are good guesses at best. there is a secret way to get a v4 to put out a torque curve at the same power level as a smaller charger that will murder the smaller charger.

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Pro4Jackster · 09-23-2014, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

the v3 gear case is weak and its cfm numbers are overstated, the blower itself is meh before you even get to the crappy volute designs available for it. you run to big of a compressor to fast on a v3 and it will die eventually, the v4 has a better ratio, stronger gears, larger faster bearings and is built to be abused. i know lots of guys with v1 v2 and v3 blowers(or had lol) that the chargers have "broken in" and gotten louder cuz there bearings died. 928 mospo's main buisness is rebuilding the little **** case vortechs when guys realize they are blown. vortechs cfm numbers online are good guesses at best. there is a secret way to get a v4 to put out a torque curve at the same power level as a smaller charger that will murder the smaller charger.

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Makes sense. Are there any V1, V2, or V3 that can run the HD bearings Ive heard of? What secret, wastegate and boost controller on the charge pipe or flow restricter before the s/c inlet?

Z&I · 09-23-2014, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro4Jackster

YSI trim = 1600 CFM - 1200 hp - not known if it fits, redesign odd shaped inlet or cut core support.
TI trim = 1400 CFM - 950 hp - fits, 0.25" larger inlet (hope to stretch Stillens odd intake boot and reuse.
SI trim = 1150 CFM - 775 hp - fits with no mods
SCI trim = 1050 CFM - 725 hp - comes with kit

I know you already know all of this based on your posts. But why do you recommend skipping the Ti trim? It seems like a perfect fit for a built motor Stillen Kit. It should be able to support 700 whp if you can get the Stillen framework to keep up. That is overkill for a streetcar. The fitment unknowns and cost of fitting a YSi don't seem to make sense to me. Is there a part of this equation I am overlooking?

Thanks for chiming in here with these specs!

1Slow's point here is that these specs are overly enthusiastic ... Much like the factory stock rating of 332 BHP is really more like 280(?)whp ...
The 280(?)whp being the more realistic when it comes to actual performance.

That being said, the Ti trim being rated at up 950 hp - actually is about 750 whp.
Still good enuff for me ... plus it will bolt right in with only having to enlarge the input piping.

Offer still stands to 1Slow' - would be willing to upgrade to the V-7 if it makes sense ... and I am willing to stand corrected.

Pro4Jackster · 09-23-2014, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z&I

Thanks for chiming in here with these specs!

1Slow's point here is that these specs are overly enthusiastic ... Much like the factory stock rating of 332 BHP is really more like 280(?)whp ...
The 280(?)whp being the more realistic when it comes to actual performance.

That being said, the Ti trim being rated at up 950 hp - actually is about 750 whp.
Still good enuff for me ... plus it will bolt right in with only having to enlarge the input piping.

Offer still stands to 1Slow' - would be willing to upgrade to the V-7 if it makes sense ... and I am willing to stand corrected.

Another thing to remember is the additional parasitic losses from the supercharger itself. A very Vortech savy member on my350z estimated he was losing an additional 10-15% to the supercharger at 17 psi. If correct, that would push the Ti's potential whp down to 600-700. Have you checked into the calculated losses when pushing the psi limits of these head units?

Z&I · 09-24-2014, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro4Jackster

Another thing to remember is the additional parasitic losses from the supercharger itself. A very Vortech savy member on my350z estimated he was losing an additional 10-15% to the supercharger at 17 psi. If correct, that would push the Ti's potential whp down to 600-700. Have you checked into the calculated losses when pushing the psi limits of these head units?

Yes, I have considered the parasitic loss ... it is inherent with superchargers.
That's where Tubo's have the advantage in efficiency.
According to Bobby at CINmotorsport, bottom line with all factors being considered, the T-2Ti's are good for that 600-700 hp number, so, at least on paper, I'm good to go.
I'd be happy with anything close to 600 for now.
Time will tell.
Just need to keep the belts on the pulleys @ 15-16 psi.
Thanks for turning me on to the blower bracket brace you had made by Jtrans.

I really appreciate all of this input - and now I'm really really hoping I've made the right decision!

Who knows, I may have to upgrade again if 600 doesn't quite do it....

Z&I · 09-23-2014, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

So u upgraded the v3 saw no returns except a blown motor, and the plan now is to build the motor and try upgading the v3 again to solve it? Einstien once had a famous quote about that lol best of luck tho it sucks having your car down for extended periods of time.

More to it than that ...
Got an extra 65 whp + a flat 378 tqe curve from the V-3Si, 1000 injectors, fuel pump and Tune. (there was plenty more to the build)
That would have put me in the high 11's.
But the motor blew on deceleration the first pass.
Jury is still out as to the exact cause of the grenade.

Back to the drawing board ...
I've done as much homework as humanly possible regarding this ... there aren't a whole lot of 370's out there that are seriously drag racing...so there isn't much of a pool of experiential knowledge to draw on.
I'm NOT upgrading the V-3, but stepping up to the V-2Ti ... and it's performance specs meet my realistic goals...understood ?

Though I am not sure of the reference to Einstein here, except in the context of blindly continuing a repeated task and in hopes of obtaining a different result - which is one of the definitions of insane thinking or reasoning.
I will assure you that this is not the case here.

If you can supply a complete plan with parts and part numbers of all that is required that will allow me to install a V-7 in my car that will give more usable power, be reliable, and won't overpower the cars ability to keep it hooked up, maybe then we can talk more ...

I think tho' that we've both stated our cases here and perhaps should continue this discussion back channel for now just to keep on topic ...

Rob Ainscough · 09-23-2014, 08:13 PM

Does anyone ring/groove these Nissan motors to prep for FI?

Cheers, Rob.

Pro4Jackster · 09-23-2014, 08:51 PM

Z&I:

I had almost identical results with the Si and cogs (34T/30T) on my HR. Mine was making 450hp/375tq on a mustang dyno. It made 15 psi by 6700 RPMs and held 15 psi (belt slip) to redline. It broke a rod shortly after on the dyno. After building the motor, my next step was to either try to run a 34T/28T cog setup, or swap to the Ti trim. Then experiment with IAT sensor in Intake manifold, move MAFs, cut core support and install a larger filter as close as possible to the inlet.

1slow370 · 09-24-2014, 12:06 AM

Exactly the horsepower numbers on vortechs site are overated badly hoping the ti gets you the power or KNOWING the v7 can do it easily when pullied down is a gamble i wouldnt want to make you want to spend 2000 to find out you may need to do it again?

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Z&I · 09-24-2014, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

Exactly the horsepower numbers on vortechs site are overated badly hoping the ti gets you the power or KNOWING the v7 can do it easily when pullied down is a gamble i wouldnt want to make you want to spend 2000 to find out you may need to do it again?

Thanks, I've tried my best to figure this all out and make an intelligent decision based on everything I've been able to find out and learn.
Starting from scratch, I've had to filter through a lot of information and advice...double checking it all again and again.

It's been a year now since first deciding to upgrade the stock Stillen kit.
Seemed a simple 2 week project initially, but has now grown in to an enormous undertaking.
It WILL be nice to drive the car again tho' !!!

09-23-2014, 06:36 PM	#4 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7252	So u upgraded the v3 saw no returns except a blown motor, and the plan now is to build the motor and try upgading the v3 again to solve it? Einstien once had a famous quote about that lol best of luck tho it sucks having your car down for extended periods of time. Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

09-23-2014, 08:51 PM	#13 (permalink)
Pro4Jackster Base Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: NW Houston Posts: 130 Drives: '08 350Z Rep Power: 15	Z&I: I had almost identical results with the Si and cogs (34T/30T) on my HR. Mine was making 450hp/375tq on a mustang dyno. It made 15 psi by 6700 RPMs and held 15 psi (belt slip) to redline. It broke a rod shortly after on the dyno. After building the motor, my next step was to either try to run a 34T/28T cog setup, or swap to the Ti trim. Then experiment with IAT sensor in Intake manifold, move MAFs, cut core support and install a larger filter as close as possible to the inlet. __________________ Jtranbuilt '08 Z [Jtran PT7075 Single - Fujitsubo - Transgo - Wilwood - TE37SL - BC Racing]

09-24-2014, 12:06 AM	#14 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7252	Exactly the horsepower numbers on vortechs site are overated badly hoping the ti gets you the power or KNOWING the v7 can do it easily when pullied down is a gamble i wouldnt want to make you want to spend 2000 to find out you may need to do it again? Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

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09-23-2014, 08:13 PM	#12 (permalink)
Rob Ainscough Base Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Concord CA Age: 61 Posts: 14 Drives: 15 370z Sport Tech Rep Power: 12	Does anyone ring/groove these Nissan motors to prep for FI? Cheers, Rob.