New Z or TT my 370?

Spooler · 07-26-2022, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Z944

I'm waiting to see the nismo. If it's not super hella tight 3000, I'm gonna put in a vr38.

Seems I could just swap a vr38 top end and all the plumbing and turbos of my choice. Build up the bottom end.. forged rods, knife edged crank, liners.. Not sure what bore and stroke increases are possible. Don't they share the same block? The GTR is just dressed up with bigger bore liners, or longer stroke, right? If the coolant passages line up.. it should be good to go. I could, in theory just by a GTR nismo top end and rebuild it, plug it in... intake, throttle body should all line up and look OEM.. the ultimate Z sleeper. Of course, would need a stand alone, tune, etc etc, etc $$$$ Or is there something I'm not seeing here?

Shrug. For me it's not cost tho. I'll never sell my nismo. The only way I'd sell this car was if the new one was just too friggin' sick to not have. It's about what I think would be cool to have. I like doing mods from the OEM parts bins. It's kinda my thing. I also like displacement... a lot. None of this stuff is cheap, even the "cheap" stuff. I've just accepted that cars are money pits lol. If I sink 100k into it to make it exactly how I want.. idc.(As long as I can space out that 100k at least a few years lmao) The 370 is damn close to exactly how I envision a perfect sports car to be. One of the best platforms to work from out there IMO. If it was built exactly how I want it, it would likely have had a prancing horse, and retailed for 250k+. I would easily dump millions into a 100% custom ground up one off build. It's a damn bargain in those terms.

Also, I think the nismo cars will go way up in value eventually. I'm roughly 100k into my 951, bought it for 12k 20 years ago. I'm doing a similar restomod parts bin build on it that's almost done. It's a 3.0 s2/68 951 top end swap. Sorted ones in any mileage are going for 50ish k now. Mine with the mods and total ground up resto is probably a 80-100k car now. My point is, it's all where you're true perceived value lies.

Anyway.. my .02.

Where did you get the idea that the VR38 heads would fit on a VQ37 and be better. The VR38 block is the valuable part. Not sure what you have been reading or have been told. That's a No go though.

370Z944 · 07-26-2022, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spooler

Where did you get the idea that the VR38 heads would fit on a VQ37 and be better. The VR38 block is the valuable part. Not sure what you have been reading or have been told. That's a No go though.

Well, this is one of those situations where I'm not entirely sure... yet. Part of why I brought it up. Now that the 944 is finally getting put back together I can start focusing on my Z. Not many have done this yet(if any), and I haven't taken one apart yet to find out. Based on what I'm seeing so far tho, the VQ and VR are the same block. Cast from the same molds. The difference is that they 'dress up' the VR block. Why buy a whole long block? I can just build up my vq bottom end myself, to my specs. Liners, close the deck, longer stroke, lower compression, forged rods. As long as the coolant passages line up it's gravy. They should. The main difference between the engines bottom ends is that the VR is built for boost, and a slightly longer stroke. Also why slapping on aftermarket turbos onto a high compression stock bottom end is not a good idea, and in 20 years will be worthless. Why use the VR heads? "Bett
er"? Whether the vq heads are better is subjective. They're not built for boost, and I'm pretty sure they wont line up with the GTR intake and plumbing. I could be wrong tho. I havent sunk my teeth into all the fine details, yet. I'm certainly not seeing how it's a "no go" though. Unless you got schematics proving otherwise.

They also share the same core chassis FWIW. If any nissans were truly bespoke, they'd be priced with ferraris, bugatti, pagani, etc. The FM platform is what all the rwd nissans share. Some chassis get sent down the line to be dressed up as altimas.. Some get sent over to the nismo plant and dressed up as sports cars with a vq or vr...

Also, in 20 years it will be nice to have as many matching numbers as possible when a concourse judge takes a long gander at it. lol

Spooler · 07-26-2022, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Z944

Well, this is one of those situations where I'm not entirely sure... yet. Part of why I brought it up. Now that the 944 is finally getting put back together I can start focusing on my Z. Not many have done this yet(if any), and I haven't taken one apart yet to find out. Based on what I'm seeing so far tho, the VQ and VR are the same block. Cast from the same molds. The difference is that they 'dress up' the VR block. Why buy a whole long block? I can just build up my vq bottom end myself, to my specs. Liners, close the deck, longer stroke, lower compression, forged rods. As long as the coolant passages line up it's gravy. They should. The main difference between the engines bottom ends is that the VR is built for boost, and a slightly longer stroke. Also why slapping on aftermarket turbos onto a high compression stock bottom end is not a good idea, and in 20 years will be worthless. Why use the VR heads? "Bett
er"? Whether the vq heads are better is subjective. They're not built for boost, and I'm pretty sure they wont line up with the GTR intake and plumbing. I could be wrong tho. I havent sunk my teeth into all the fine details, yet. I'm certainly not seeing how it's a "no go" though. Unless you got schematics proving otherwise.

They also share the same core chassis FWIW. If any nissans were truly bespoke, they'd be priced with ferraris, bugatti, pagani, etc. The FM platform is what all the rwd nissans share. Some chassis get sent down the line to be dressed up as altimas.. Some get sent over to the nismo plant and dressed up as sports cars with a vq or vr...

Also, in 20 years it will be nice to have as many matching numbers as possible when a concourse judge takes a long gander at it. lol

The VR38 and the VQ37VHR are not the same block. They are way different. The VQ oil pump is ran on the crank. The VR38 oil pump is ran via a chain on the crank. Totally different. The VR38 block is closed deck with 13mm head studs. The VQ is open deck with 12mm head studs. The engines are totally different. Can't leave off the drive shaft running through the factory oil pain of the VR38. VR38's are taller also.

370Z944 · 07-26-2022, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spooler

The VR38 and the VQ37VHR are not the same block. They are way different. The VQ oil pump is ran on the crank. The VR38 oil pump is ran via a chain on the crank. Totally different. The VR38 block is closed deck with 13mm head studs. The VQ is open deck with 12mm head studs. The engines are totally different. Can't leave off the drive shaft running through the factory oil pain of the VR38. VR38's are taller also.

Again, same casting. Dressed up for boost.. I forgot to mention AWD dressings.. my bad. Pumps and chains should be auxilary to the block with the same exact bore, and coolant passages. Of course all that heavy obese godzilla crap would be deleted. LMAO Besides, its moot if I'm just plugging in a top end to a vq bottom end dressed up for boost to my liking. All you would really need is forged rods, and lower comp pistons to have a reiable turbo car(bottom end wise). If you want to crank out high boost, yeah.. you'd want to close the deck to prevent the jugs from wiggling.. like nissan did. They already spent millions here writing the playbook, might as well follow it. It is a highly developed motorsport platform already.. they just didn't put all the parts on it that I want cause it would've taken sales from their flagship gtr pig. Nothing stopping me from taking those parts, and configuring them how I want on a proper RWD manual.

"The VQ oil pump is ran on the crank. The VR38 oil pump is ran via a chain on the crank."

The crank is not the same. The oiling difference I would assume is for a dry sump. The VR has 2,5 mm longer stroke. So yeah, def different crank.. Same block, coolant passages and bolt patterns tho.

"The VR38 block is closed deck with 13mm head studs. The VQ is open deck with 12mm head studs."

1mm drill and tap, then call ARP. Done. Just needs to be the same pattern. The deck, again.. put whatever liners you want in it. Doesn't even have to be the same material nissan ran. Hell, put iron sleeves in with closed deck, and call mahle for some pistons. I like JE too. You could probably put in the VR sleeves even. The material you choose for sleeves determines which pistons you can run is all really. Closed deck is really necessary for high boost apps. Hence why nissan put it on their boosted version of the FM sports car platform. On low to moderate boost, you wont see wiggle. Especially if tuned properly. My 944 has an open deck. I put 50k on it with 16 psi.. no issues. Again, decking, oiling, sleeving.. this is all ancillary to the actual block/crankcase. All the rwd nissans share many of the same core parts. They do this to save money. and manufacture a sports car people can afford vs the GTR hardly anyone can afford. It's a tuner car, it was literally designed to be finished and tuned by the end user. If you want nissan to dress your z chassis up from the factory with race tech, and performance to their liking, its called a GTR. The GTR doesn't do it for me. It's a bloated, ugly pig IMO. Not how I would dress it up, thats part of why they make the z the way they do. It's got to fit a budget. You could spend200-250k on a nismo gtr dressed up just how nissan thinks you should want it, or you could buy a z for 40-50k, and for another 100k(max high number) plug in the parts and configure it how you want it. RWD manual FTW. I'll totally highjack their engineering, and develoment tho. Put it all into one car to my liking. Mwahahaha. They do have tasty milkshakes... Sip, sip, gulp.