Stay NA or go to the Dark Side?

Red__Zed · 09-19-2012, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edub370

na can be badass on these vq's. idk if anyone caught this months modified (or superstreet. cant remember) but it had an article on an 04ish 350z that was a built NA car and it was making 377whp. thats with the old single mani configuration too. 400whp na is not unattainable for our cars

you won't even come close to 400whp with anything streetable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZKraken22

NA delivers strength and reliability to your Z but a TT Z is a time bomb. Going FI and if your car is your DD you will have headaches and issues and your car will be down one time or another no matter if it is a small issue or big issue.
FI is the best way to get power we all know that but it's to risky to me because if my motor goes bomb im screwed. But that's me, that's my opinion!

surely you are joking.

I am continually stunned every time I look at this thread, and people are pushing the "NA=reliable" claim. In reality, at power level that are even REMOTELY comparable, you are going to see better reliability with boost every time.

You can get to 400ish whp no problem with mild boost and a conservative tune, and probably run the car for 100k+. Trying to get to even 360whp NA is going to mean cracking the engine open, and running a significantly more aggressive tune...not to mention probably cutting down on the air intake filtration. Look at the 350 Megan370z posted... it is running ITBs, and a hella aggressive tune, not to mention all the other crap. Trying to wrench power out of an NA build means a whole lot more risk to the engine, all with a much lower reward.

If SS wants to do it because he can afford it, I'll be one of the first people to subscribe to the build thread, but if he does it, it should be with eyes wide open to the risks.

Kingbaby · 09-20-2012, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

I am continually stunned every time I look at this thread, and people are pushing the "NA=reliable" claim. In reality, at power level that are even REMOTELY comparable, you are going to see better reliability with boost every time.

It's because we are currently NA in stock form...VQHR guy here and NA guys are already into 100k club, and they are not pussy footing around in it either! I have 39k of hard street driving....if I'd had done the same on a boosted application, I doubt it would've made it to 39k.

On the other note....GTM kits installed correctly with reasonable boost are also lasting the test of time also....

So it goes both ways!

NA has a little more pride it in...

OP don't forget gears/TUNE/100shot

Red__Zed · 09-20-2012, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingbaby

It's because we are currently NA in stock form...VQHR guy here and NA guys are already into 100k club, and they are not pussy footing around in it either! I have 39k of hard street driving....if I'd had done the same on a boosted application, I doubt it would've made it to 39k.

Built NA != stock NA

Kingbaby · 09-21-2012, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

Built NA != stock NA

For the average Z owner yes! All bolt-ons/a tune/supporting mods is what I'm talking about I rarely see folks dive into a small engine build due to the minimal gains seen from cams or anything else.

Haven't seen/followed your build...do you still drive with the same confidence?

I'm not trying take anything away from boost, it's just the way a boosted Z car is driven 9 out of 10 times is sadden that's all.

ZKraken22 · 09-21-2012, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

you won't even come close to 400whp with anything streetable.

surely you are joking.

I am continually stunned every time I look at this thread, and people are pushing the "NA=reliable" claim. In reality, at power level that are even REMOTELY comparable, you are going to see better reliability with boost every time.

You can get to 400ish whp no problem with mild boost and a conservative tune, and probably run the car for 100k+. Trying to get to even 360whp NA is going to mean cracking the engine open, and running a significantly more aggressive tune...not to mention probably cutting down on the air intake filtration. Look at the 350 Megan370z posted... it is running ITBs, and a hella aggressive tune, not to mention all the other crap. Trying to wrench power out of an NA build means a whole lot more risk to the engine, all with a much lower reward.

If SS wants to do it because he can afford it, I'll be one of the first people to subscribe to the build thread, but if he does it, it should be with eyes wide open to the risks.

So adding FI to a NA car is more reliable? So im seeing more guys with z's and G's adding Strokers along with a FI kit. Why are they doing that? to make the car more reliable! buddies na mustang with 135K... Cam, heads you name it and the car still runs. He is still in college he has needed a tune and new spark plugs a year ago and the car is still running. Let me see a boosted car last a year needing a re tune. The car that Megan370z posted im not telling OP to run anything like that. more like gabe3d over at (my350z) with the Stroker, cam G35 who has 100 miles on the engine. NA is reliable.

Red__Zed · 09-21-2012, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZKraken22

So adding FI to a NA car is more reliable? So im seeing more guys with z's and G's adding Strokers along with a FI kit. Why are they doing that? to make the car more reliable!

Are you serious? They are adding a stroker on top of FI to make more power. There's still no replacement for displacement, and a stroked motor is fantastic for producing torque.

I didn't stroke my motor for reliability...I did it for POWER

Quote:

buddies na mustang with 135K... Cam, heads you name it and the car still runs. He is still in college he has needed a tune and new spark plugs a year ago and the car is still running. Let me see a boosted car last a year needing a re tune.

a) apples and oranges
b) happens all the time, especially when you are only picking up a couple of horses

Quote:

The car that Megan370z posted im not telling OP to run anything like that. more like gabe3d over at (my350z) with the Stroker, cam G35 who has 100 miles on the engine. NA is reliable.

There are only a couple of ways to increase power...it pretty much comes down to trying to make air and fuel mix better. FI does this pretty easily-- you take your engine and you cram more air down it's gullet. If your goal isn't big power, you can still run an OEM-style tune, and keep things perfectly reliable.

To get results of a similar magnitude from an NA build, you are having to run an extremely aggressive tune that kills driveability and generates a whole ton of extra heat to deal with. You are fundamentally limited by atmospheric pressure, and this leaves you no other option than trying to get closer to the edge. It comes down to basic chemistry and physics.

The only way an "NA build" is going to be more reliable than an FI build is if:

A) you put together a crappy FI system
B) you are talking low-dollar, low-power builds (ie, bolt-ons)

View Poll Results: Which path should I go (can choose both FI kit and FI exhaust option [option 6])
NA with JUN Cams and existing mods	22	25.29%
GTM Twin Supercharger with existing exhaust	17	19.54%
Greddy Twin Turbo kit	10	11.49%
GTM Twin Turbo kit	25	28.74%
Fast Intentions Twin Turbo Kit	13	14.94%
Forced Induction with new exhaust designed for F.I.	10	11.49%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 87. You may not vote on this poll

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