New clutch time

-ZS-Carpenter · 05-28-2019, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPDKING

You're relocating something out of the original location the engineers designed it to be and work in. Just like someone said, there are teething problems because of always adjusting the clutch and the install is a little more time consuming versus basically just doing a regular clutch install like the Heavy Duty CSC. The pedal feel is also consistent as well. The heavy duty CSC also costs less. Z Speed makes both the CMAK and the HD CSC, talk to them. Also, I thought you didn't care for the heavier flywheels? Why not just get the 15 or 14lb ones and call it a day?

It's almost like you didn't read the thread at all.

As I said above a few days ago, going with Z1 14lb flywheel.

Other than guessing that moving to a cmak will cause issues just because, can you point to any thread where people are having problems with the V3.x cmaks. Any actual instances of recurring issues? I have seen nothing but praise since the V2 was released. If I missed something post some links, until then it's either hearsay or conjecture.

And I'll say it again. The trans won't go back in the car with the hydraulics inside the bell housing. I don't care how great the HDCSC might be. If it fails the trans has to come out and there is a good chance it will ruin the clutch disk when it sprays brake fluid inside the bell housing when it goes. Until I smoke this clutch the trans is staying in the car.

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-ZS-Carpenter · 05-28-2019, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spooler

As far as what clutch to get, that is so hard to say. Everyone has their own expectations. Call Joe at Zspeed and talk to him since he deals with this stuff constantly.

If I get rained out I'll give him a call. Hard to find time during business hours when I'm working 12+ a day.

I think I have a pretty good list going. I've got a little time before placing the order and will give Joe a call if I get a chance to.

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SPDKING · 05-28-2019, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -ZS-Carpenter

It's almost like you didn't read the thread at all.

As I said above a few days ago, going with Z1 14lb flywheel.

Other than guessing that moving to a cmak will cause issues just because, can you point to any thread where people are having problems with the V3.x cmaks. Any actual instances of recurring issues? I have seen nothing but praise since the V2 was released. If I missed something post some links, until then it's either hearsay or conjecture.

And I'll say it again. The trans won't go back in the car with the hydraulics inside the bell housing. I don't care how great the HDCSC might be. If it fails the trans has to come out and there is a good chance it will ruin the clutch disk when it sprays brake fluid inside the bell housing when it goes. Until I smoke this clutch the trans is staying in the car.

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Call Z Speed, they literally make BOTH of them and did testing on both of them. It was the Owner of L Spec in California that talked about the CMAK issues and Z Speed recommending the HD CSC over the CMAK when I was planning on getting the CMAK. That was a while ago and so I don't have links for you except those two companies

Rusty · 05-28-2019, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spooler

Well, the above is a load of crap. I have driven for years with an aluminum flywheel that has steel frictions. It works just fine. I am not sure where folks got that from. Guess it is internet rumor.

As far as what clutch to get, that is so hard to say. Everyone has their own expectations. Call Joe at Zspeed and talk to him since he deals with this stuff constantly.

Hey crappy head. I got my info from some track rats. First hand.

Spooler · 05-28-2019, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

Hey crappy head. I got my info from some track rats. First hand.

Like I said, I have done it for years. Never had one issue driving one on the street.

BettyZ · 05-28-2019, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spooler

Like I said, I have done it for years. Never had one issue driving one on the street.

Yessss, Flywheel War IV! I'll keep it going: I have a Grok Industries millstone in my Flintstonemobile and haven't had a problem since 5100 B.C.

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-ZS-Carpenter · 05-28-2019, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyZ

Yessss, Flywheel War IV!

This is turning into a **** show. I'm going to grab some popcorn and ask a few more questions

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Spooler · 05-28-2019, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -ZS-Carpenter

This is turning into a **** show. I'm going to grab some popcorn and ask a few more questions

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It was not meant to be. This is my personal experience. Not a he said she said.

-ZS-Carpenter · 05-28-2019, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spooler

It was not meant to be. This is my personal experience. Not a he said she said.

It's all good. I'm sure I could run the aluminum JWT FW just fine, I just have no need for saving the extra pound vs the cost and longevity. If i had time to get in on more track days maybe. But right now I'll be alright.

I sent an email to Joe giving him the breakdown on what i do and a parts list of what i want. If he tosses a red flag on something I'll let you guys go at it again

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPDKING

Call Z Speed, they literally make BOTH of them and did testing on both of them. It was the Owner of L Spec in California that talked about the CMAK issues and Z Speed recommending the HD CSC over the CMAK when I was planning on getting the CMAK. That was a while ago and so I don't have links for you except those two companies

I'm guessing it was quite a while ago since there is not one complete clutch kit on Zspeeds page that does not have the v3 cmak. There is not one kit with the HDCSC. I know the first run of them had a few issues that had to be worked out but the v3 has more than proven itself to be the go to for relocation.

I have an email sent off to Joe. We'll see what he has to say. My money is on the cmak.

Rusty · 05-28-2019, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spooler

Like I said, I have done it for years. Never had one issue driving one on the street.

Ok, I'm home now, and not distracted. Last year at a trackday. Was talking to a couple of other drivers. The subject of aluminum flywheels come up. The consensus was that they are great for the track. For street use. There is more slipping of the clutch to get moving because of lack of inertia. You have to change your driving style for it. In stop and go traffic. This extra slipping has lead to deep heat spots on the friction ring. A couple guys said that it affected disk life and feel for the clutch. 3 said that they switched back to steel. The other 4 still running the aluminum. But these guys change the friction ring on a regular schedule. The one guy had a pic on his phone and the friction ring was a solid blue. To turn blue. That's about 650F to 750F.

Spooler · 05-28-2019, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

Ok, I'm home now, and not distracted. Last year at a trackday. Was talking to a couple of other drivers. The subject of aluminum flywheels come up. The consensus was that they are great for the track. For street use. There is more slipping of the clutch to get moving because of lack of inertia. You have to change your driving style for it. In stop and go traffic. This extra slipping has lead to deep heat spots on the friction ring. A couple guys said that it affected disk life and feel for the clutch. 3 said that they switched back to steel. The other 4 still running the aluminum. But these guys change the friction ring on a regular schedule. The one guy had a pic on his phone and the friction ring was a solid blue. To turn blue. That's about 650F to 750F.

Hmm, guess I drive different. I am on and off the clutch quick. I don't slip it much at all.

Rusty · 05-28-2019, 09:21 PM

SPDKING · 05-28-2019, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -ZS-Carpenter

I'm guessing it was quite a while ago since there is not one complete clutch kit on Zspeeds page that does not have the v3 cmak. There is not one kit with the HDCSC. I know the first run of them had a few issues that had to be worked out but the v3 has more than proven itself to be the go to for relocation.

I have an email sent off to Joe. We'll see what he has to say. My money is on the cmak.

You buy them separately of course https://zspeed.com/product/zspeed-pe...-cylinder-csc/

https://conceptzperformance.com/jim-...ktb_p_2423.php

Or you could buy the clutch kit and HD CSC (or CMAK) at Concept Z and get reward cash since this is a big purchase. So you can get something else in the future with a few bucks off. And yes it has been awhile, and you know who's CSC hasn't failed after so long? This guy <<<

-ZS-Carpenter · 05-29-2019, 04:32 AM

Quote:

To: Bill

The z1 road race kit will not work with the cmak, it has a odd ball pressure plate and uses an altima stock rigid clutch disk (very loud rattle in every gear under 2500) and is 240mm. The clutch sets up way to high and will hit the fork on the cmak kit.

We do not make 14lb steel flys as the only way to make them that light is to take away the thickness behind the disk where it needs it most for heat dissipation and strength.

The super street kit has a really strong exedy "racing ultra fiber" disk (not stock organic) 250mm, and 2700lb pressure plate, fly is 17.4 lbs and the pressure plate is a few pounds light than the one in the z1 kit so it will about even out and you will have really good setup.
This kit is somewhat aggressive and very accurate.

Joe

So back to the Zspeed stage 3 kit maybe. It's roughly the same rotational mass as going with the Z1 kit. Or stay with the 14lb FW and pair it with Joes clutch for an even lighter combo. I'll have to drink this over for a day or 2.

Rusty, Since the Z1 FW is in your sights do you have any heat concerns. I know you'll run your car much longer and harder than I probably ever will.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue

I'm going with Joe's steel flywheel (thought it was 17 lbs, not 18 but w/e). He recommended it to me even when I asked for the lightest one possible. Not buying anything Z1 anymore, so their flywheel is out.

The page says 18 but Joe says 17.4. I was just going off their site but it is lighter than they advertise.

JARblue · 05-29-2019, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPDKING

Yes but there has to be reason why they went back to that, they aren't Porsche where they are stubborn and won't change a design.

Umm... I would argue that the CSC and ESCL issues on the 370Z are excellent examples of Nissan being stubborn. Bottom line is a recall doesn't happen until the money says it's ok. I wonder how many people paid $1000+ for ESCL replacement before issuing the recall and then removing it altogether.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -ZS-Carpenter

And I'll say it again. The trans won't go back in the car with the hydraulics inside the bell housing. I don't care how great the HDCSC might be. If it fails the trans has to come out and there is a good chance it will ruin the clutch disk when it sprays brake fluid inside the bell housing when it goes. Until I smoke this clutch the trans is staying in the car.

Good call. That's why I went with the Z1 kit back in the day over the HDCSC from Joe. I probably ended up with more issues but I never had to drop the transmission again even when I was having to screw with the Z1 kit. New clutch is an opportunity to upgrade to the CMAK now

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