going square how did you like it?

ValidusVentus

I would actually be interested in getting a set of those double ducted backing plates as well. Group buy from the race team fab shop??? heh

BGTV8, would you mind explaining your last post a bit more?

I just ordered a set of 18x10 +34 F14s and plan on running a small spacer in the rear, perhaps 10 mil. I have not done the spacer thing before. Best option? Doing research, just looking for opinions also. I think the answer to this would be of benefit to people reading this thread so not making a new one at this point.

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synolimit

My , I prefer bolt on. You don't stress out such a long stud then, arp or not.

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13 370z-

BGTV8

There are 3 types of spacer:
1. Spacers that come with their own studs - use the OEM studs tro snug-down the spacer to the hub, then use the studs on the spacer to fit the wheel to the spacer. Porblem with these is that "if" the nuts securing the spacer to the OEM studs come loose, you can lose a wheel worst case, or get a bad vibration at best.

2. Spacers that are not fixed to the hub at all - there is a photo earlier in this thread showing such a spacer on one of the Doran Z34 race cars

3. My style of spacer ... spacer does not have additional studs ... simply fit the spacer to the hub over the extended studs, and use lug nuts to secure the spacer to the hub via the extended length studs (ARP 75mm long in my case), then put the wheel on and use another set of lug nuts to secure the wheel to the same stud that secures the spacer to the hub. If the spacer nuts come loose, then the wheel cannot come adrift .....

Sorry, but I don;t have any photos, and a picture would be worth 1000 words in this circumstance.

Hope this helps clarify my original post.

If you do not have extended studs, then you will have to use option 1 or 2 above.

synolimit

If you use lock tight and torque the bolt on spacer tighter than the wheel, in my case 100lbs, it will never come off. That'd be like saying all wheels just secured with lugs nuts could fall off. It just doesn't happen.

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13 370z-

Rangerz

I was under the car today looking if this would work. A couple of issues Posche calipers are on the back side (rear) of the disc. You maybe could fabricate some CF for the 370 but, I think the effectiveness is downgraded with the more twist and turns. You would also need to contend with our sway bar endlinks. Bottomline is the Porsche has a straight shot onto the rotor center where we do not. The idea might work but, I think we would need to come from the back side of the lower control arm to make it work.

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newtonova822

Will the square setup help with oversteer?

The front turns in nicely but rear seems to come round pretty fast.
Not really interested in spinning out in traffic. So have been careful.

01206

is front 18*10 +45, rear 18*10 +15 with 275/35/18 all around still a square setup?

wstar

Since our cars have staggered tires (larger in the rear) in stock form, going to a square setup reduces your rear tire width, which if anything is a move in the direction of more oversteer, not less. However, keep in mind how gravity and contact-patch interact. In some ways it's not as much a change as you'd think, and in others it's a very big change in the feel of the car. The hardest part for me to get comfortable with on switching was that the rear end was looser under trail-braking, requiring more careful brake modulation and slight steering corrections at times to prevent an oversteer spin under trail-braking. Once I got used to it, I really liked it though. That little bit of extra looseness makes it easier to get the car rotated just right while trailing.

I don't know if there's an official definition. One of the nice benefits you'd be missing out on, though, is the ability to rotate wheels all over without remounting tires (and only needing spare wheels in one size/offset).

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ValidusVentus

If your saying it comes around fast on corner exit under power than just meter the throttle better or you have some setup issue. 370Zs do not oversteer at the limit from the factory, not even close. Though not nearly as badly as 90% of vehicles on the road probably.
If its on corner entry, might need to look at the way your managing weight transfer with the brake and throttle input.
Yep.

Square refers to running the same wheel width front and rear and kind of assumes your running the same diameter. Offset is just the distance from the actual centerline of the rim to the mounting face in millimeters. Running different offsets will likely prevent your from swapping wheels front to rear easily.

*Didn't know you had replied when I wrote this Wstar, oh well lol.

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newtonova822

Hello,

It seems that at mid corner the back travels faster and into a
decreasing radias half circle cicrle(that is what it feels like). Even though the back is not coming loose.
It feels like what you would think a paper diagram of over steer is. When the rear starts to whip around when the corner pushed to hard and you spin out.

Problem being I am taking slight hot corners on the street not the track.
And it is wanting to fall right into that curl of oversteer. I guess I know the feeling of it happeneing but a bit reserved to push the car to an unwanted spin. But most tight hard corners have a different feeling for the front verses the rear. Front holds firm but rear feels like it will flick out deeper in corner. Most cars I have driven before would tend to loose front grip and slide there first. Not have the back end feel like you when you hammer the throttle out of a corner to fishtail the car.

Guess probably my setup(ride height, preload on coils, etc) I am trying to get better. As to why I also asked about going square next year.

wstar

Most rear-wheel-drive cars tend to be over-steery, and most drivers prefer them that way. Most front-wheel-drive cars tend to be under-steery. Lately, some newer rear-wheel-drive cars are tuned at the factory for slight understeer in many cases because it's safer for a novice driver (controlling/recovering from understeer is more instinctual without training and practice). Our Z's are in this category: they are a rear-wheel-drive car, but they have some gentle understeer tendencies unless you really stomp it at the wrong time (at which point VDC will probably kick in, slow you down, and make a mess of everything). With VDC off you can still push yourself into oversteer in a low-speed corner with the throttle pretty easy though.

All of those nuances aside though: unless the car's setup is way out of whack, it's really up to the driver to manage the rest. You might want to make setup changes to change the nature of the car and make it feel more natural to you, but the bottom line is it's on you to control the rear end of the car with throttle and steering inputs. It takes a lot of practice. Personally, I wouldn't go after switching to a square wheel setup just to try to address this issue (which it wouldn't do anyways I don't think) - I'd focus on training yourself instead. Learn to predict better, react better, use smooth-but-fast precise inputs to the throttle and steering, etc. If you get good enough at that stuff, any actual setup problem in the car will just be an annoyance, but not a dangerous hinderance.

TL;DR - Sign up for a DE or Auto-X event near you ASAP Experimenting with a car you can't control on the street is dangerous.

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Shamu

Brian and I ran 18x12 wheels with 320 width Hoosier slicks square at Laguna Seca. The car felt incredibly balanced. The car didnt oversteer much at all. had a slightest hint of understeer in some turns but not bad.

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newtonova822

As a newbie I found this pretty informative.

http://www.longacreracing.com/articl...t/Squaring.pdf

wstar

That goes way past any kind of tuning or setup I've ever done on my car All I mean by "square setup" is the front and rear wheels are identical.

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GSS138

I switched to square(per clint and some companies recommendation) and it does balance the OEM setup a lot better. Knowing a bit more now I can see Clint's point on tuning with a square setup.

With a good corner balance and correct spring rates, for someone that knows what they are doing, a wider track, especially upfront on a car with an engine that stands up tall is an advantage.

Wider track up front helps with our high CG (v6). Without a square wheel base the car is going to inherently always "push". It's basic geometry and physics. Pushing is fixable via sway bars, but if you don't have to deal with a geometry problem, why should you?

Don't want to be negative, but this is exactly why I don't like a lot of the Z Specs in the "racing" world. They aren't good specs for our car.

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