Nissan 370Z Forum  

Shifting a FI Car

Hey Guys, I took my car to the track for the first time over the weekend and realized how slow the shifts were. It felt like ages to get the

Go Back   Nissan 370Z Forum > Nissan 370Z Tech Area > Track / Autocross / Drifting / Dragstrip


Like Tree10Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-13-2013, 03:02 PM   #1 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Mitco39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,089
Drives: 40th 370z
Rep Power: 132
Mitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Shifting a FI Car

Hey Guys,

I took my car to the track for the first time over the weekend and realized how slow the shifts were. It felt like ages to get the car to come back on the boost and pick up speed again. I was not doing anything special shift wise...

Lift throttle while pushing clutch in, shifting gears letting the clutch out and then going back to WOT. Do any of you guys just hold the throttle pinned and let the rev limiter do its thing? I could lower the rev limiter a bit with up rev to make this safer I guess.

Just curious as to what you guys are doing. It feels to shift even slower than it did while I was NA for just the reason that it takes the turbo some time to get things moving again after blowing off all that boost.

Thanks!

__________________
2007 Chevy Duramax - EFILive Tuned By Me
2010 40th W/ Nav - Boosted Performance - UpRev Tuned By Me
The Mrs. Ride -2012 335XI N55 BMW - Cobb Tuned By Me, Built by her
My Build --> http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...39s-build.html
Mitco39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2013, 03:33 PM   #2 (permalink)
DR_
Track Member
 
DR_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Dallas
Posts: 981
Drives: Touring/Sport M6 PG
Rep Power: 17
DR_ is a jewel in the roughDR_ is a jewel in the roughDR_ is a jewel in the rough
Default

Look for a WOT box or a anti lag kit to allow for no lift shifting.

Last edited by DR_; 05-13-2013 at 03:36 PM.
DR_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2013, 04:08 PM   #3 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Mitco39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,089
Drives: 40th 370z
Rep Power: 132
Mitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Yeah. I did try to get the racelogic with the no lift shift, but our ABS sensors would just not support it. Do you have any experience with any of these no lift shift kits? I am thinking ECUTEK will probably be able to do this in the short future.
JARblue likes this.
__________________
2007 Chevy Duramax - EFILive Tuned By Me
2010 40th W/ Nav - Boosted Performance - UpRev Tuned By Me
The Mrs. Ride -2012 335XI N55 BMW - Cobb Tuned By Me, Built by her
My Build --> http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...39s-build.html
Mitco39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2013, 04:13 PM   #4 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Mitco39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,089
Drives: 40th 370z
Rep Power: 132
Mitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Just took a look at the WOT box and it looks promising. Anyone use one of these on the 370 yet?
__________________
2007 Chevy Duramax - EFILive Tuned By Me
2010 40th W/ Nav - Boosted Performance - UpRev Tuned By Me
The Mrs. Ride -2012 335XI N55 BMW - Cobb Tuned By Me, Built by her
My Build --> http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...39s-build.html
Mitco39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2013, 05:24 PM   #5 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Mitco39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,089
Drives: 40th 370z
Rep Power: 132
Mitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I found this thread, looks like its no good for launch control (not what I am looking to use it for anyways)

WOT box 2-step

The no lift shift would be perfect however.
__________________
2007 Chevy Duramax - EFILive Tuned By Me
2010 40th W/ Nav - Boosted Performance - UpRev Tuned By Me
The Mrs. Ride -2012 335XI N55 BMW - Cobb Tuned By Me, Built by her
My Build --> http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...39s-build.html
Mitco39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2013, 10:04 PM   #6 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,668
Drives: 370
Rep Power: 974723
phunk has a reputation beyond reputephunk has a reputation beyond reputephunk has a reputation beyond reputephunk has a reputation beyond reputephunk has a reputation beyond reputephunk has a reputation beyond reputephunk has a reputation beyond reputephunk has a reputation beyond reputephunk has a reputation beyond reputephunk has a reputation beyond reputephunk has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I no lift shift my car probably about 12 times a day, never had a problem.. I have no mods to assist in it. I shift it quick enough that it doesnt really noticeably hit the rev limiter anyway. I have a lightweight twin disk clutch though, which aids in allowing faster shifts. I did all the same stuff in my 350z for several several years and never had a problem with that one either. I would say that if someone only did it on track days and never did it on the street, they would probably never do it as much as I have, so I have my doubts it could break anything. My vote is give it a shot and see if it feels better to you before investing into any mods to help you do it.
__________________
Charles @ CJ Motorsports : Website | Facebook | Instagram | YouTube
Home of the 9 second, stock longblock, stock drivetrain 6MT 370z. 9.91 @ 142mph
phunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2013, 10:50 PM   #7 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Mitco39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,089
Drives: 40th 370z
Rep Power: 132
Mitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Thanks Phunk, it makes sense. I mean that is what the rev limiter is there for anyways. Ill have to do some playing with it here.

Thanks for the info.
__________________
2007 Chevy Duramax - EFILive Tuned By Me
2010 40th W/ Nav - Boosted Performance - UpRev Tuned By Me
The Mrs. Ride -2012 335XI N55 BMW - Cobb Tuned By Me, Built by her
My Build --> http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...39s-build.html
Mitco39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 07:21 AM   #8 (permalink)
Track Member
 
Dwnshift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Cincy
Posts: 717
Drives: NISMO 370Z RC
Rep Power: 14
Dwnshift is a name known to allDwnshift is a name known to allDwnshift is a name known to allDwnshift is a name known to allDwnshift is a name known to allDwnshift is a name known to all
Default

I wouldn't recommend that with the OEM transmission .... Just
Your asking for the synchros to be wiped clean ... And for sure broken shifter fork.
But If you want to throw a new trans at the car every 10 hours... Go for it!
Sh0velMan likes this.
Dwnshift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 08:31 AM   #9 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
1cleanZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1,132
Drives: '09 PW Nismo
Rep Power: 20
1cleanZ has a reputation beyond repute1cleanZ has a reputation beyond repute1cleanZ has a reputation beyond repute1cleanZ has a reputation beyond repute1cleanZ has a reputation beyond repute1cleanZ has a reputation beyond repute1cleanZ has a reputation beyond repute1cleanZ has a reputation beyond repute1cleanZ has a reputation beyond repute1cleanZ has a reputation beyond repute1cleanZ has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwnshift View Post
I wouldn't recommend that with the OEM transmission .... Just
Your asking for the synchros to be wiped clean ... And for sure broken shifter fork.
But If you want to throw a new trans at the car every 10 hours... Go for it!
What he said^^^
__________________
2009 PW Nismo #0021 -My Built Progress >>1cleanG to 1cleanZ<<
Team NextLevel
1cleanZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 09:34 AM   #10 (permalink)
Enthusiast Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Marysville Ohio
Age: 38
Posts: 357
Drives: 09 Nissan 370Z 6M
Rep Power: 13
logenl7 has a spectacular aura aboutlogenl7 has a spectacular aura aboutlogenl7 has a spectacular aura about
Default

Ya I've smoked one tranny in my Z already before by grinding a gear Not again lol
logenl7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 10:08 AM   #11 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Mitco39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,089
Drives: 40th 370z
Rep Power: 132
Mitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond reputeMitco39 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

If you know how to shift (IE make sure it is in gear before popping the clutch) it shouldnt have any effect on the internals in the trans. That is what a clutch is for, to break the link to the engine. I already go from WOT, let off, shift then get back on it. Keeping it held WOT will just keep the engine going while you make the change.

I am not talking about not using the clutch at all (which I could see where issues would lie). A no lift shift kit will just lower that rev limiter for you to make a shift, the engine will still be spooled and ready to go.

I mean if you pop the clutch out mid shift then absolutely stuff is going to break. All I know is when your shifting a boosted car it is very very slow, frustratingly slow even. Never really noticed it before heading to the track because I would not do a pull longer than a gear.

Hey and if I blow it up ill build it up. I have the tools, we'll have to see about the brains. haha. Cant be any worse than a couple of the automatics I have rebuilt.
__________________
2007 Chevy Duramax - EFILive Tuned By Me
2010 40th W/ Nav - Boosted Performance - UpRev Tuned By Me
The Mrs. Ride -2012 335XI N55 BMW - Cobb Tuned By Me, Built by her
My Build --> http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...39s-build.html
Mitco39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 11:08 AM   #12 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Sh0velMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth
Posts: 3,349
Drives: Noisily.
Rep Power: 20
Sh0velMan has a brilliant futureSh0velMan has a brilliant futureSh0velMan has a brilliant futureSh0velMan has a brilliant futureSh0velMan has a brilliant futureSh0velMan has a brilliant futureSh0velMan has a brilliant futureSh0velMan has a brilliant futureSh0velMan has a brilliant futureSh0velMan has a brilliant futureSh0velMan has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitco39 View Post
If you know how to shift (IE make sure it is in gear before popping the clutch) it shouldnt have any effect on the internals in the trans. That is what a clutch is for, to break the link to the engine. I already go from WOT, let off, shift then get back on it. Keeping it held WOT will just keep the engine going while you make the change.

I am not talking about not using the clutch at all (which I could see where issues would lie). A no lift shift kit will just lower that rev limiter for you to make a shift, the engine will still be spooled and ready to go.

I mean if you pop the clutch out mid shift then absolutely stuff is going to break. All I know is when your shifting a boosted car it is very very slow, frustratingly slow even. Never really noticed it before heading to the track because I would not do a pull longer than a gear.

Hey and if I blow it up ill build it up. I have the tools, we'll have to see about the brains. haha. Cant be any worse than a couple of the automatics I have rebuilt.
He's saying if you don't give the input shaft time to spin down, you'll eat up your synchros in short order.

He's absolutely right. A synchromesh tranny depends on those synchros to synchronize the input and output shafts of the transmission, that half second or more you give it to spin down a little on a normal "Power off/Power on" style shift will greatly prolong the life of those synchros.

Yet another reason I wish there were an affordable dog box option for this car.
__________________
Buy My Car! | Build Thread
Sh0velMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 01:41 PM   #13 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,668
Drives: 370
Rep Power: 974723
phunk has a reputation beyond reputephunk has a reputation beyond reputephunk has a reputation beyond reputephunk has a reputation beyond reputephunk has a reputation beyond reputephunk has a reputation beyond reputephunk has a reputation beyond reputephunk has a reputation beyond reputephunk has a reputation beyond reputephunk has a reputation beyond reputephunk has a reputation beyond repute
Default

eh... you guys worry too much. hundreds and hundreds of full throttle shifts later, my original 2009 trans synchros are working just as well as when i bought the car. Almost 9 years later, the 350z trans working just as well also (that trans has a scratch into 5th gear that has been there for eternity though, probably unrelated as its not often to hit 5th when racing). Both cars over 500rwhp and constantly power-shifted their entire life. If I bothered to floor it when accelerating, then I probably didnt let off the gas when I shifted.

If you have a lightweight racing clutch, like most twin disks, the lighter and smaller diameter disks reduce the work on the synchros by drastically reducing the rotating weight on the input shaft. This may be a big factor into why i dont have a problem with it... both cars had a twin disk put in very early in their life. With a stock flywheel, my 370z would make a huge THUD on a powershift, as im assuming the dual mass flywheel was "bottoming out".

people have ALWAYS told me that my trans is going to fail from doing it, but i just keep on doing it, every day, and it just keeps working fine. Hell I havent even changed the trans fluid and im almost at 50,000 miles now.

IF you can drive it right, based on my own experience and evidence, i see no reason it should fail any sooner than mine (which has yet to happen). Besides, a new trans for these cars is pocket change compared to all the other costs associated to FI, so even if you cant do it well, its not that expensive to refresh that trans every few years.
O&G, DarkJak and Mitco39 like this.
__________________
Charles @ CJ Motorsports : Website | Facebook | Instagram | YouTube
Home of the 9 second, stock longblock, stock drivetrain 6MT 370z. 9.91 @ 142mph

Last edited by phunk; 05-14-2013 at 01:48 PM.
phunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 01:49 PM   #14 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Sh0velMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth
Posts: 3,349
Drives: Noisily.
Rep Power: 20
Sh0velMan has a brilliant futureSh0velMan has a brilliant futureSh0velMan has a brilliant futureSh0velMan has a brilliant futureSh0velMan has a brilliant futureSh0velMan has a brilliant futureSh0velMan has a brilliant futureSh0velMan has a brilliant futureSh0velMan has a brilliant futureSh0velMan has a brilliant futureSh0velMan has a brilliant future
Default

^^^ Well, the actual RPMs you shift at and the actual rotating mass on the input shaft make all the difference...

BJ's experience with breaking the stock tranny probably comes from doing this @ ~8200-8500 RPM, I'm guessing on your boosted setup you aren't power shifting at north of 8K...

Same on your 350.
__________________
Buy My Car! | Build Thread
Sh0velMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 02:01 PM   #15 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,668
Drives: 370
Rep Power: 974723
phunk has a reputation beyond reputephunk has a reputation beyond reputephunk has a reputation beyond reputephunk has a reputation beyond reputephunk has a reputation beyond reputephunk has a reputation beyond reputephunk has a reputation beyond reputephunk has a reputation beyond reputephunk has a reputation beyond reputephunk has a reputation beyond reputephunk has a reputation beyond repute
Default

EDIT: nevermind, rereading your last post it sounds like you just said exactly what i just said.

I agree, its about the actual RPM that you begin the shift, and how quickly you are expecting the synchronization to occur. The gas peddle position is mostly irrelevant once the clutch has been disengaged. I shift at 7500 with my setup, as I expect most people here will be. I did not do it long on the stock type clutch configuration, so maybe I should stress a little more that all my experience has been with lightweight racing clutches and perhaps with a stock style clutch, others may not see the same endurance in their trans.
Mr.Squeeze, Sh0velMan and Mitco39 like this.
__________________
Charles @ CJ Motorsports : Website | Facebook | Instagram | YouTube
Home of the 9 second, stock longblock, stock drivetrain 6MT 370z. 9.91 @ 142mph

Last edited by phunk; 05-14-2013 at 02:06 PM.
phunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need some help with shifting. Gauge Nismo 370Z 27 03-01-2012 11:48 AM
Please help me with my shifting... Hugoneus Engine & Drivetrain 27 12-01-2010 11:02 PM
Shifting 1st to 2nd rmorrow Nissan 370Z General Discussions 35 06-10-2010 04:42 PM
Shifting Into First Not Possible... Hugoneus Nissan 370Z General Discussions 50 03-16-2010 06:36 PM
Shifting from 5th to 6th. gh0st3794 Engine & Drivetrain 1 02-19-2010 03:11 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2