Need autox alignment suggestion/specs: 285/35 19" Sq. tires, stock suspension

[AK370Z]

Hey guys,

As you saw from this thread, I have been autox-ing regularly now. I am hoping to do 3 events every month (at least hoping to).

I ended up getting 285/35-19" RE-11 all around sq. setup and I love it. Best decision ever made. So, finally I wanted to get an alignment that will take advantage of the wide REs and give me even quicker time. My suspension is bone stock including all stock sways.

So, what kind of autox friendly alignment do you recommend? I want to stay in street (C Street) class. Remember, I still have to make it to the event driving on regular roads/highways (sometimes in rain) etc. So maybe a spec that works for regular driving and autox? Also keep in mind, this will be my 2nd season. So, I may not be there quite yet. A 5 year old autox PRO may benefit from certain spec vs. me on the same car.

I asked a national driver,"What if I get a front sway, what's alignment should I get?" He suggested try to minimize rear camber/toe (-1.5 camber, 0 toe). In the front, 1/8" total toe out in the front.

Perhaps I need more positive camber/toe in the rear (than above mentioned) with stock front sway? Lets hear your suggestions. Thank you in advance

[vh1]

Here is what I am running on my car for the street. The intent was to get it close to AutoX numbers and livable on the street.

Disclaimer: Haven't run it on the track but feels pretty balanced in the canyons(slight oversteer in the canyons on stock RE050's). Might try going down to -1.5 Deg. on the rear camber as you noted to see what effect it has.

Front Camber: -2.2 Deg.
Front Toe: 0
Front Caster: 5.5 Deg.

Rear Camber: -1.8 Deg.
Rear Toe: 1/16" or 0.01 Deg. Total (1/32" Right + 1/32" Left)

I have swift springs with SPL Front and Rear Camber adjustment and SPC Toe Bolts on the rear.

Hope this helps or gives you a starting point.

[Rangerz]

AK,

I know on the track zero toe on the back was horrible. Made the rear break loose far to soon. Zero to up front you will love as the steering feels much lighter and easier to turn in.

For rear toe I shot for just under the factory recommended spec. Much much better stays planted now.

[clintfocus]

Originally Posted by Rangerz

AK,

I know on the track zero toe on the back was horrible. Made the rear break loose far to soon. Zero to up front you will love as the steering feels much lighter and easier to turn in.

For rear toe I shot for just under the factory recommended spec. Much much better stays planted now.

i dont have a issue with zero toe in the back, i ran slight toe in before, then went zero and didnt find the rear any less stable

[Rangerz]

Originally Posted by clintfocus

i dont have a issue with zero toe in the back, i ran slight toe in before, then went zero and didnt find the rear any less stable

Boy I sure did rear would hook inot a corner then just let go. I did have 2.5 neg camber at the back at the time. Have since changed to just under stock toe and 1.8 neg camber and it is night and day.

[clintfocus]

Originally Posted by Rangerz

Boy I sure did rear would hook inot a corner then just let go. I did have 2.5 neg camber at the back at the time. Have since changed to just under stock toe and 1.8 neg camber and it is night and day.

what sway bars do you run? yeah that -1.8 is better for the rear. in general id never run over -2 out back since out rear suspension has a very aggressive camber curve under comrpession

[synolimit]

Originally Posted by Rangerz

For rear toe I shot for just under the factory recommended spec. Much much better stays planted now.

Whats that mean? Please say toe out or toe in and if you have a degree number vs a length number.

[Rangerz]

Originally Posted by synolimit

Whats that mean? Please say toe out or toe in and if you have a degree number vs a length number.

It means if the low spec is .09 and the middle (factory suggested spec) is .15 then I was shooting for .12. Immaterial if it is degrees or /100's I was shooting for the middle of the factory spec and the min spec.

Toe in... I was talking about the rear not sure why one would go with toe out unless it on a stroller but, I guess you could.

[synolimit]

Originally Posted by Rangerz

It means if the low spec is .09 and the middle (factory suggested spec) is .15 then I was shooting for .12. Immaterial if it is degrees or /100's I was shooting for the middle of the factory spec and the min spec.

Toe in... I was talking about the rear not sure why one would go with toe out unless it on a stroller but, I guess you could.

I was referring to actual numbers. I use a Hunter hence the wanting degrees if you had them vs length.

Ok now I'm confused. You said in post 3 you shot for just under factory spec. To me that means not in spec at all anymore. now you say .09 is the low and .15 is the middle and you shot for .12 which to me is still in the green and not the red.

Well what I've come across is everyone says things different with toe. Hunter reverses the positive and negative from the rest of the world so when I talk about toe I just want to hear it one way so I understand. If you had said .12 positive that could mean one of two ways. So I said please say if its in or out.

[GSS138]

Originally Posted by vh1

Here is what I am running on my car for the street. The intent was to get it close to AutoX numbers and livable on the street.

Disclaimer: Haven't run it on the track but feels pretty balanced in the canyons(slight oversteer in the canyons on stock RE050's). Might try going down to -1.5 Deg. on the rear camber as you noted to see what effect it has.

Front Camber: -2.2 Deg.
Front Toe: 0
Front Caster: 5.5 Deg.

Rear Camber: -1.8 Deg.
Rear Toe: 1/16" or 0.01 Deg. Total (1/32" Right + 1/32" Left)

I have swift springs with SPL Front and Rear Camber adjustment and SPC Toe Bolts on the rear.

Hope this helps or gives you a starting point.

This is a solid spec expecially on OEM suspension.

[Boss_302]

When you went square, did you match the rim widths? or stayed with the front stock width?

[AK370Z]

Originally Posted by vh1

Here is what I am running on my car for the street. The intent was to get it close to AutoX numbers and livable on the street.

Disclaimer: Haven't run it on the track but feels pretty balanced in the canyons(slight oversteer in the canyons on stock RE050's). Might try going down to -1.5 Deg. on the rear camber as you noted to see what effect it has.

Front Camber: -2.2 Deg.
Front Toe: 0
Front Caster: 5.5 Deg.

Rear Camber: -1.8 Deg.
Rear Toe: 1/16" or 0.01 Deg. Total (1/32" Right + 1/32" Left)

I have swift springs with SPL Front and Rear Camber adjustment and SPC Toe Bolts on the rear.

Hope this helps or gives you a starting point.

Thank Vh1. Those are some nice camber. I am not sure if I can do something similar on stock suspension as C Street class (in Autox) do not allow any camber kit/toe bolts etc. This is Stock Suspension spec for 09 Nissan 370Z

Originally Posted by Rangerz

AK,

I know on the track zero toe on the back was horrible. Made the rear break loose far to soon. Zero to up front you will love as the steering feels much lighter and easier to turn in.

For rear toe I shot for just under the factory recommended spec. Much much better stays planted now.

Thanks for the input. That's why I wanted to post it here so that I can hear more. I rarely have been doing HPDE lately due to car getting older (almost 85K and the lack of oil cooler). So, I'm pretty much focused on Autox. So, an autox only alignment spec is what I was interested in.

I am def. keeping your suggestion written down.

Originally Posted by Boss_302

When you went square, did you match the rim widths? or stayed with the front stock width?

Stock front rims (19" Sport Rays). Fits fine, no rub - no issues.

[7speed]

Originally Posted by AK370Z

Stock front rims (19" Sport Rays). Fits fine, no rub - no issues.

No pics, then it never happened. Jk but can you take a pic i want to see how front looks with that width.

[AK370Z]

Originally Posted by clintfocus

i dont have a issue with zero toe in the back, i ran slight toe in before, then went zero and didnt find the rear any less stable

Awesome! great to know. yeah I think I want to start with 0 rear toe and see how it feels. There's a test and tune I signed up for Sun.

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

You can't do much in class.

Dial in minimal camber in the rear. The rear camber curves are aggressive and you want to be flat as possible to get power down. I like a little toe in out back on the Z, but it's personal preference.

You definitely need toe out up front, how much is preference. I kept mine pretty aggressive for autoX, but it makes the car trouble on the highway. 1/8 should be a good starting point.

A good front bar will help reel in the rollover the Z struggles with as well. In my experience the Hotckis is too stiff to use without extremely aggressive camber dialed in, but others have had different experiences.

The square setup should do you well. I'd consider going down in height next round of tires for the gearing advantage, nice to have on the autoX course.

Dan,
Thanks for the detailed reply. I agree with you as it's limited what I can do in Stock Street category. But I like it bc I rather be a fast driver in a slow car than "OK" driver in a fast car.

I'm def. leaning toward toe out. Going to try 1/8" total toe out in the front and see how it feels. When you can car "wobble/trouble" in highway, how bad is it? Z still daily driver and I drive pretty high speed in highway. As for going down on height, I think 35 was the least high in 285 tires. I could be wrong.

thanks

Originally Posted by redline10000

AK

I have a setup simialr to yours. Front swaybar, 275/35/19 square on stock rays and no front camber arms. I did some research and came up with zero toe up front, either zero or 1/8 toe in, in the rear and -1.5 rear camber. I got these numbers from the forum and then found an article on motoiq that suggest the same setup, hope that helps. Also I saw that toe out is good but I dont want the car going all over the road on the hwy. http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...ing-your-Toe.a

The Ultimate Guide to Suspension and Handling: Part Six, Adding Negative Camber

Nice! good to hear. I don't have front sway . May next year I'll try a mild (eiback/stillen mid setting) Front sway but for now, stock will do. Any reason why you picked 0 toe in the front vs. slight toe out? I heard toe out in the front helps turns in autox.

Originally Posted by Boss_302

When you went square, did you match the rim widths? or stayed with the front stock width?

stock width.




an autox course in a pouring rainy h*ll


This is from EVO school yesterday

Looks awesome! there's a slight bulge but barely noticable. Feels good on the pavement. I run usually 37F/38R or 38F/39R

thanks.


So, tomm is the day (I'm hoping) I get the alignment done. Kind of finalized on:

Front: 1/8" total toe out in the front (I keep hearing it helps turn better in autox)
Rear: -1/5 camber and 0 toe.
100% stock Z suspension setup. stock F and R sways.

I am just curious, since my Z is a daily driver, how bad will total 1/8" of front toe out will affect me? I drive in rain and high speed on highway.

[Red__Zed]

You can't do much in class.

Dial in minimal camber in the rear. The rear camber curves are aggressive and you want to be flat as possible to get power down. I like a little toe in out back on the Z, but it's personal preference.

You definitely need toe out up front, how much is preference. I kept mine pretty aggressive for autoX, but it makes the car trouble on the highway. 1/8 should be a good starting point.

A good front bar will help reel in the rollover the Z struggles with as well. In my experience the Hotckis is too stiff to use without extremely aggressive camber dialed in, but others have had different experiences.

The square setup should do you well. I'd consider going down in height next round of tires for the gearing advantage, nice to have on the autoX course.