Proven Power Dyno Database Thread

[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

I definitely like the comparisons. You're still running post maf tubes and K&N's too? The PPE's breath so well up top, if you're not running a CAI, it could be restricting it a bit. I'm thinking a lighter flywheel and pulleys will get you into the 320 range if you already do have a CAI, and maybe 330 if not :P.

Thanks!

Yep, just smooth tubes and panel filters.

I might pick up a bit more with a CAI (maybe 5-10 more?) --- I'm at 318 with STD correction, so 320 is only a curly **** hair away

I'm not really a fan of having intake filters anywhere where it could suck in water, but I do have a nice set of short rams with CNC'd velocity stacks -- those should pick up some extra power. I just need to build air boxes for them with fiberglass... Maybe a project over the holidays

I'm also not a big fan of unbalanced crank pulleys...

Actually, I'm very happy with the peak power gains and sound!

I'm more irritated by the low end dip in torque, which was not expected.

I'm thinking its probably due to less than ideal valve timing (which we didn't tune yet) between 4 and 4.5K, but I'll probably play a bit more with fueling and spark soon to confirm that its simply not just a matter of that. Do you know what your target AFR's and advance values are around there? Slightly leaner (13.0) or richer (mid 12's) didn't seem to make a reliable difference, but maybe I'm missing something obvious...

Speaking of low end grunt, didn't you have the M370 IM? I believe they have longer (but wider) runners, which should bump up peak torque and move it a bit lower in the rev range -- that might be a killer combo with the PPE's.

[SS_Firehawk]

I did have an M370. Mid range was better, only lost a couple up top. With a CAI and pulleys, I picked up 16whp untuned and with busted O2 sensors. A CAI will really show results up top. If your CSC ever dies, I would think about a new flywheel too. You will lo e the response. Not only that, but you gain power everywhere. Only reason the M370 wasn't installed is it wouldn't have made a big difference boosted and with the screws offset a bit, I felt the stock box was stronger. NA though, I think it's a great upgrade. I miss the growl it gives.

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[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

I did have an M370. Mid range was better, only lost a couple up top. With a CAI and pulleys, I picked up 16whp untuned and with busted O2 sensors. A CAI will really show results up top. If your CSC ever dies, I would think about a new flywheel too. You will lo e the response. Not only that, but you gain power everywhere. Only reason the M370 wasn't installed is it wouldn't have made a big difference boosted and with the screws offset a bit, I felt the stock box was stronger. NA though, I think it's a great upgrade. I miss the growl it gives.

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I've got the 7AT -- no flywheel

I should be playing more with the tune -- including VVEL! -- in 3-4 weeks, so sometime after Thanksgiving I should have new dynos to share.

I'll see about building some airboxes for my velocity stacked SRI's too.

EDIT: Hey, same characteristic dip around 4.5 too -- less visually noticeable because of how the values are scaled on the x axis (and numbers are overcorrected high...) -- http://i.imgur.com/DAXDp.png.

Looks like you had it right around where I did too, but last run (what did you have on for the green run?) flattened it out quite a bit. http://www.the370z.com/attachments/i...iew-dynoii.jpg

Ok -- must just be a characteristic of the headers then... hmm. Looking forward to playing with VVEL.

[SS_Firehawk]

Hard to compare yours to mine with my O2 sensors flip flopped and miswired. The second was PPEs, y pipe & hfc, and CBE. The last run was with pulleys and CAI I felt power should have been higher and tq was a bit soft. But from one run to the next, it is at least indicitive of the gains possible for your car. CAI was ARMs, which seem to get a bit of a poor rep because of filter and MAF placement, but they pick up power all over the place. Those numbers are in DIN as well. It was closer to 310 SAE. Car only made like 265 stock at best.

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[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

Hard to compare yours to mine with my O2 sensors flip flopped and miswired. The second was PPEs, y pipe & hfc, and CBE. The last run was with pulleys and CAI I felt power should have been higher and tq was a bit soft. But from one run to the next, it is at least indicitive of the gains possible for your car. CAI was ARMs, which seem to get a bit of a poor rep because of filter and MAF placement, but they pick up power all over the place. Those numbers are in DIN as well. It was closer to 310 SAE. Car only made like 265 stock at best.

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I know you had some major sensor issues and also a few different mods (as well as a different trans!), but the shape of the torque and power curves, including the narrow area where it dips is very, very similar. That said, the O2's job is to create fuel trims to get sensor readings close to the target map. Primary fueling is all handled by the MAF and MAP to assess air and pressure respectively and then command injector duty cycles based on calculated load and RPM. It probably didn't start really wreaking havoc with your trims, giving unstable AFR's and other weird driveability quirks until after driving around for a bit. Anyway, if your fueling was that far off, it would have never made anywhere near those power levels on the dyno.

Also note: Blue, flatter, and even slight bump in the 4 - 4.5 range; red, slight drop to match or just barely dip below the blue line in that area; green, much flatter across the board, but still slight drop off in that RPM band.

That makes me think the low end dip is just characteristic of the header design -- it seems to be primarily a mid to high end power maker at the cost of some minimal low end grunt.

Basically, vs. a stock set up, cat delete, or probably shorty headers, it just doesn't pick up as much down low, and virtually nothing (or very minimal loss) in that narrow range, but offers massive gains everywhere else.

I suspect your inclusion of the cat actually helped you down low -- the slight restriction may change the speed of the exhaust pulses at lower RPM's to better match the OEM valve timing.

I think with some VVEL tweaking, that dip would flatten right out. That dip is also reminiscent of the drop in torque we see in the FR-S motor before cam switch and also the dip characteristic of the 2ZZ (Celica GT-S and Lotus Elise motor) before cam profile change.

I know Sh0velman had virtually the same set up I have -- I think he mentioned a similar torque curve in another thread too, but I couldn't find a dyno graph for him.

[Jordo!]

Yep -- we see it here too Nissan 370Z racing headers | PPE Engineering LLC

Scaled over MPH rather than RPM (probably due to ignition signal pick-up issues), but it looks to be a characteristic of the header.

I'll try and dial it out next month and report back

I have to say, tho, even if that can't be tuned out, it's not hurting anything -- your butt-dyno certainly won't feel it -- and there's massive gains everywhere else

[black_sedan]

Just read through the thread. Nice work documenting your dyno sheets and setup. I had already ordered the K&N drop-ins and was considering getting Test pipes next.

Nice to see proof of what mods actually put down power.

[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by black_sedan

Just read through the thread. Nice work documenting your dyno sheets and setup. I had already ordered the K&N drop-ins and was considering getting Test pipes next.

Nice to see proof of what mods actually put down power.

Thanks! If are in the Tampa vicinity, and need a tuner and/or dyno shop, I have recommendations for both. Just shot me a PM.

[Jordo!]

Finally had a chance to do some tuning of VVEL!

It's a summerish spring in FL (note the conditions), so fresh baseline (at Z-Fever). I will post additional dynos and details as I think of things worth sharing...

First, this is my already otherwise maxed out uprev tuned 2011 7AT with Cobb tubes, K&N panel filters, Nismo take off exhaust and PPE LTH, SAE corrected (stingy) before and after VVEL tuning. Other than touching up AFR's to keep them the same after adjusting cam phasing, everything else is the same.

Behold!







We couldn't completely seem to dial out the small drop down low (edit: specifically between 4 and 4.5 K RPM or so) associated with the PPE headers (seemingly a resonance issue?), but made massive gains up top with VVEL tuning.



Here's the somewhat inflated STD dyno (without smoothing) for "bragging rights", as I call it...




Take away: VVEL tuning is absolutely worth it for an NA car, provided you have some serious breather mods on there, which many of us do.



BTW: If you are looking for similar results for an uprev tune/more info, shoot Martin Struk an email at rsenthalpy@gmail.com -- he travels all the time all over the US and abroad to tune, and as you can see, he is well worth it!

[jrb55gh]

Subscribed. Good data. Thanks for posting.

[TheBoomSpoon]

I am exhausted (pun intended) after reading this thread.

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[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by jrb55gh

Subscribed. Good data. Thanks for posting.

Originally Posted by TheBoomSpoon

I am exhausted (pun intended) after reading this thread.

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Well, there is a lot to read

[LunaZ]

Great data!

[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by LunaZ

Great data!

Thanks