Why can't very capeable people do what Ford can ....

Spikuh · 07-27-2012, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

NISSAN370Z=V6V6V6V6V6V6V6V6V6V6V6V6V6V6V6V6V6V6V6V 6V6V6V6V6V6
MUSTANG GT=V8V8V8V8V8V8V8V8V8V8V8V8V8V8V8V8V8V8V8V8V8V8V8V 8V8

INNOVATION???????? If nissan chooses to FI and reduce weight on the Z to be faster than a stang... Awesome. but dont forget what the Z is. And the Z is not and never was or should be a v8 or 4cyl.
Selling it out with a 5.6 to appease some domestic muscle-jocker is out of the question to ANY TRUE Z ENTHUSIAST.

REMEMBER THE GTR COST 106K NICELY EQUIPPED AND THE MUSTANG AT ITS HIGHEST IS 70K. gtr point not taken

I see letters and numbers, but little more.

UNKNOWN_370 · 07-27-2012, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spikuh

I see letters and numbers, but little more.

In other words... it took way more money to make a GT-R faster than a mustang shelby.
the culture of the mustang is a V8 standard vehicle built up to sports car status and succeeded incredibly.
The Z was built as a sports car from the ground up with different characteristics that set it apart from standard cars in its character, performance and behavior. The Z is not designed to be in NASCAR. that's why there's is no NASCAR Z.

This is amazing. you guys want the Z to be everything for under $50k. Handle like the cayman. beat the mustang and have the interior quality of BMW. I think you guys should be looking at ferrari and not Z. Unless you want the Z to cost more than the GT-R. its not feasible at sub 50k with everything the Z offers.

AND THIS IS NOT OUR DOMESTIC. It's JAPAN'S interpretation of a sports car.
Do you go to a french restaurant and tell them I want the frog legs but with gator meat? While going faster and innovation is somethiong we all want. Lets keep it in perspective to Japans vision of the Z. I personally dont need a mustang transplant in the Z. That's why ford throws R&D money on the stang to be what it is...

There's other ways for the Z to be fast aside from it copying muscle-car culture... The Z isn't a muscle car.

wolf370z · 07-27-2012, 02:38 PM

I think the problem boils down to the Z getting beat at it's own game. It's not much of a sports car if it loses to muscle cars on the track

UNKNOWN_370 · 07-27-2012, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unknown_370

nissan370z=v6v6v6v6v6v6v6v6v6v6v6v6v6v6v6v6v6v6v6v 6v6v6v6v6v6
mustang gt=v8v8v8v8v8v8v8v8v8v8v8v8v8v8v8v8v8v8v8v8v8v8v8v 8v8

innovation???????? If nissan chooses to fi and reduce weight on the z to be faster than a stang... Awesome. But dont forget what the z is. And the z is not and never was or should be a v8 or 4cyl.
Selling it out with a 5.6 to appease some domestic muscle-jocker is out of the question to any true z enthusiast.

Remember the gtr cost 106k nicely equipped and the mustang at its highest is 70k. Gtr point not taken

actually the shelby starts at $54,900
the nissan gt-r starts at $96,820

huge difference

this

Davey · 07-27-2012, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s

I'm a firm believer in "competition breeds innovation", especially for the automotive industry. Why wouldn't you want the Z to match or best the performance of the Mustang? Staying competitive with its competitors is the only way the Z will survive and live to get better. You're missing the fact that the Mustang is not only faster than the Z in a straight line, but also around a track.

I agree that it would be great for the Z to compare to the GT - and really in everything but power it does very well. The Mustang has quite a bit more horsepower, and doesn't weigh that much more, relatively.

So, while the Mustang does corner well and puts down great track times, no doubt about that, with a similar power to weight ratio the Z is right with it, and IMO in a much more enjoyable-to-drive package.

Footloose301 · 07-27-2012, 02:48 PM

Exactly.

b1adesofcha0s · 07-27-2012, 04:16 PM

Should they be compared? No because they are different cars like you said. Are they compared? Yes they are by most people looking to buy a performance car in this price range. Example, I have a budget of about $35k and I'm looking to buy a performance car. I'm obviously gonna cross shop the Z with the 5.0 and even other things like an Evo, Sti, Cayman (used), etc. Just because the cars aren't in the same class doesn't mean I can't compare them. These comparisons are perfectly valid in my decision of which car I want to buy.

UNKNOWN_370 · 07-27-2012, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s

Should they be compared? No because they are different cars like you said. Are they compared? Yes they are by most people looking to buy a performance car in this price range. Example, I have a budget of about $35k and I'm looking to buy a performance car. I'm obviously gonna cross shop the Z with the 5.0 and even other things like an Evo, Sti, Cayman (used), etc. Just because the cars aren't in the same class doesn't mean I can't compare them. These comparisons are perfectly valid in my decision of which car I want to buy.

You're Right... but they are not valid when you ask the Z to be more like a stang. if the Z is too slow? buy the stang? if you like the Z better but need to go faster? buy and mod the Z. Just be realistic about the complete & different and individual purposes of each car. you have 35k maybe you need a corvette used? mustang power, Z like handling under some conditions. better than Z in others. But nissan shouldn't sell out the Z to be like a stang' or downgrade power to be like a BRZ... i want the Z to keep its own identity.

ZMan8 · 07-27-2012, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

You're Right... but they are not valid when you ask the Z to be more like a stang. if the Z is too slow? buy the stang? if you like the Z better but need to go faster? buy and mod the Z. Just be realistic about the complete & different and individual purposes of each car. you have 35k maybe you need a corvette used? mustang power, Z like handling under some conditions. better than Z in others. But nissan shouldn't sell out the Z to be like a stang' or downgrade power to be like a BRZ... i want the Z to keep its own identity.

THANK YOU. well said

b1adesofcha0s · 07-27-2012, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

You're Right... but they are not valid when you ask the Z to be more like a stang. if the Z is too slow? buy the stang? if you like the Z better but need to go faster? buy and mod the Z. Just be realistic about the complete & different and individual purposes of each car. you have 35k maybe you need a corvette used? mustang power, Z like handling under some conditions. better than Z in others. But nissan shouldn't sell out the Z to be like a stang' or downgrade power to be like a BRZ... i want the Z to keep its own identity.

I never said it should be more like the mustang. I said it should be able to match or best its level of performance. To do that with the Z you need to significantly mod it, more than just bolt ons. The Z can keep its identity and still get a step up in its overall performance level. What I'm saying is that this step up from the Z34 to the Z35 needs to be a big step and not a small step if it wants to be competitive in the market. Before the Z and the mustang used to be at the same level performance wise. Now the 5.0 is up competing with the M3 and the Z is getting left behind.

UNKNOWN_370 · 07-27-2012, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s

i never said it should be more like the mustang. I said it should be able to match or best its level of performance. To do that with the z you need to significantly mod it, more than just bolt ons. The z can keep its identity and still get a step up in its overall performance level. What i'm saying is that this step up from the z34 to the z35 needs to be a big step and not a small step if it wants to be competitive in the market. Before the z and the mustang used to be at the same level performance wise. Now the 5.0 is up competing with the m3 and the z is getting left behind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s

i'm a firm believer in "competition breeds innovation", especially for the automotive industry. Why wouldn't you want the z to match or best the performance of the mustang? Staying competitive with its competitors is the only way the z will survive and live to get better. You're missing the fact that the mustang is not only faster than the z in a straight line, but also around a track.

Nissan should be setting their aims high rather than low. Why go after the v6 when you have the capability to take down the bigger and badder v8 mustang/camaro/etc. That's what it did with the gt-r and it has earned so much recognition because of it. They could have easily had it best the bmw and mercedes in it's price range, but instead they went after more exotic supercars that cost like 5 times as much.

who said im against??? Look down

b1adesofcha0s · 07-27-2012, 04:23 PM

I'm planning on test driving a 5.0 tomorrow. Not going to buy it because I don't want to waste money buying a new car, just want to see how it drives.

I don't see what your problem is with Nissan making the Z "mustang fast" as you like to call it. Why shouldn't Nissan strive to outperform the V8 versions of other cars? Porsche does it with the 911. Even the GT-R does it with its TT V6. The V8's Nissan would be aiming for aren't quite the same as those of the 911 and GT-R, but the idea is the same. A TT V6 can be made to outperform a V8.

I never said the Z needed to outpower the 5.0 by becoming a V8 muscle car. They can up the HP and decrease weight to make the car faster overall, not just in a straight line. I was never talking about straight line speed, I'm talking about on a road course. The Z should have better handling than the mustang and should be able to put in better lap times.

ZMan8 · 07-27-2012, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s

I'm planning on test driving a 5.0 tomorrow. Not going to buy it because I don't want to waste money buying a new car, just want to see how it drives.

I don't see what your problem is with Nissan making the Z "mustang fast" as you like to call it. Why shouldn't Nissan strive to outperform the V8 versions of other cars? Porsche does it with the 911. Even the GT-R does it with its TT V6. The V8's Nissan would be aiming for aren't quite the same as those of the 911 and GT-R, but the idea is the same. A TT V6 can be made to outperform a V8.

I never said the Z needed to outpower the 5.0 by becoming a V8 muscle car. They can up the HP and decrease weight to make the car faster overall, not just in a straight line. I was never talking about straight line speed, I'm talking about on a road course. The Z should have better handling than the mustang and should be able to put in better lap times.

what he is referring to is the Nissan/Renault should not be wasting time to just out-do Ford. They have established their own culture and heritage and should build that. Additionally, nissan admitted to wanting to compete with the porsches. In fact though the GTR is completely different car than 911, when it first came out Nissans goal was to have it be better, faster than the 911. when the 370Z came out, they wanted it to be a Porsche Cayman S for half the price, which is basically is.

b1adesofcha0s · 07-27-2012, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZMan8

what he is referring to is the Nissan/Renault should not be wasting time to just out-do Ford. They have established their own culture and heritage and should build that. Additionally, nissan admitted to wanting to compete with the porsches. In fact though the GTR is completely different car than 911, when it first came out Nissans goal was to have it be better, faster than the 911. when the 370Z came out, they wanted it to be a Porsche Cayman S for half the price, which is basically is.

Yes I understand that. I know that the Mustang and Camaro are preparing pretty substantial upgrades for their next generations and the Z needs to do the same. You can say that they're different cars all you want, but in the real world they are cross shopped all the time and selling cars is a business. If the Z gets left far behind in performance, it will become irrelevant to a lot of consumers. You have to keep in mind that the majority of people who buy these cars are not Z enthusiasts like you and I. A good bunch of them are probably not even car enthusiasts, but just bought it because it looked cool. If the Z becomes irrelevant to the majority of consumers and doesn't sell then Nissan will stop making it.

Dwight Frye · 07-27-2012, 04:46 PM

You guys need to keep in mind that Nissan builds the 370Z to be a daily driver and not a race car. Seriously. Maybe only 5% sold ever make it onto a track. It's a business decision for them to build it they way they do with certain compromises. And you don't see 500,000 of them being recalled like Ford Focuses for sticking accelerators or other problems so you should be glad that Nissan is not like Ford.
What they should do is bump the low end torque a little, bump the horsepower up to about 375, address the interior NOISE issue and redesign the dash to add an analog clock where the digital clock is and an analog fuel and temp gauge, and an ALL LEATHER interior instead of the stupid mouse fur inserts.This is all easily possible and at moderate cost.
You aren't going to see a 3000 lb sports car again with today's safety requirements and all of the luxury stuff like power windows and seats either.

07-27-2012, 02:38 PM	#3 (permalink)
wolf370z Base Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: United States Posts: 230 Drives: 09 370z red m6 Rep Power: 16	I think the problem boils down to the Z getting beat at it's own game. It's not much of a sports car if it loses to muscle cars on the track __________________ Good drivers just drive.

07-27-2012, 02:48 PM	#6 (permalink)
Footloose301 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 2,659 Drives: 40th Rep Power: 22	Exactly. __________________ 2010 40th Anniversary 370Z

07-27-2012, 04:16 PM	#7 (permalink)
b1adesofcha0s A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: MD Posts: 40,963 Drives: HypeTrain Choo Choo! Rep Power: 142	Should they be compared? No because they are different cars like you said. Are they compared? Yes they are by most people looking to buy a performance car in this price range. Example, I have a budget of about $35k and I'm looking to buy a performance car. I'm obviously gonna cross shop the Z with the 5.0 and even other things like an Evo, Sti, Cayman (used), etc. Just because the cars aren't in the same class doesn't mean I can't compare them. These comparisons are perfectly valid in my decision of which car I want to buy. __________________ Project: b1adeZmobile (2009 370Z) \| Uprev Tune by AAM Competition \| Berk Exhaust Project: b1adeZmobile 2.0 (2014 C7 Z51) \| Corsa Xtreme Exhaust

07-27-2012, 04:23 PM	#12 (permalink)
b1adesofcha0s A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: MD Posts: 40,963 Drives: HypeTrain Choo Choo! Rep Power: 142	I'm planning on test driving a 5.0 tomorrow. Not going to buy it because I don't want to waste money buying a new car, just want to see how it drives. I don't see what your problem is with Nissan making the Z "mustang fast" as you like to call it. Why shouldn't Nissan strive to outperform the V8 versions of other cars? Porsche does it with the 911. Even the GT-R does it with its TT V6. The V8's Nissan would be aiming for aren't quite the same as those of the 911 and GT-R, but the idea is the same. A TT V6 can be made to outperform a V8. I never said the Z needed to outpower the 5.0 by becoming a V8 muscle car. They can up the HP and decrease weight to make the car faster overall, not just in a straight line. I was never talking about straight line speed, I'm talking about on a road course. The Z should have better handling than the mustang and should be able to put in better lap times. __________________ Project: b1adeZmobile (2009 370Z) \| Uprev Tune by AAM Competition \| Berk Exhaust Project: b1adeZmobile 2.0 (2014 C7 Z51) \| Corsa Xtreme Exhaust

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
What is the best BBK for my Ford Mustang 5.0?	blue660r01	Other Vehicles	13	01-30-2012 07:28 PM
AE Performance Ford GT Done Right!	Casey@AEperformance	Nissan 370Z Photos / Spyshots / Video / Media Gallery	28	06-18-2011 04:21 AM
1,400 hp Ford GT	Crazy8	Other Vehicles	3	03-20-2010 03:17 PM
Ford WTF	bigaudiofanat	The Lounge (Off Topic)	36	11-25-2009 10:28 AM
Unhappy people watch TV, happy people read/socialize, says study	AK370Z	The Lounge (Off Topic)	4	11-16-2008 05:56 AM

07-27-2012, 04:46 PM	#15 (permalink)
Dwight Frye Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Occupied California Posts: 423 Drives: '09 Tour/Sport/6MT Rep Power: 17	You guys need to keep in mind that Nissan builds the 370Z to be a daily driver and not a race car. Seriously. Maybe only 5% sold ever make it onto a track. It's a business decision for them to build it they way they do with certain compromises. And you don't see 500,000 of them being recalled like Ford Focuses for sticking accelerators or other problems so you should be glad that Nissan is not like Ford. What they should do is bump the low end torque a little, bump the horsepower up to about 375, address the interior NOISE issue and redesign the dash to add an analog clock where the digital clock is and an analog fuel and temp gauge, and an ALL LEATHER interior instead of the stupid mouse fur inserts.This is all easily possible and at moderate cost. You aren't going to see a 3000 lb sports car again with today's safety requirements and all of the luxury stuff like power windows and seats either.