Tried it, but not a fan. Smells nice, stays put, but I believe wintergreen oil is what the main ingredient is. Consider, the claims made, and then consider that wintergreen oil has indeed been used inside cannon barrels historically, has the same smell, etc., has been used to loosen rusted bolts on ships, and other saline prevalent areas, has been used when rubbed into joints to ease pain.

Basically, the claims are the same as the historical uses of the oil, and one of the stories is that it was found in a cannon barrel...

Sounds like it to me.

Wintergreen oil isn't the greatest lube, though. Apparently, not the best rust prevention, either, based on every test I have seen with Froglube and the one I conducted myself.

Until further notice, I use Breakfree CLP for anti-corrosion, and LaRue MG lube and TW25B as a lubricant.

Nice rifle. Top quality all the way.

I hope your stamp comes earlier than the 3-5 months some of them are taking.

Thanks! I'm expecting 5-6 months. Anything sooner, and I will be happy. It's how I am going about this. Expecting the worst, hoping for the best.

Thing is, once I have it, I have it. Barrier to entry only makes it cooler. If everyone drive an F458, they would get boring fast :driving:

I built this AR to be my one semi-auto 5.56 platform. No compromises. Sadly, it's worth more than my 2002 G20 daily-driver in perfect mechanical condition even without the can, lol

Nice rifle IC :tup:

TY! Now for a camera to take better pictures of it...

:iagree:

No compromise is right. Really nice stuff.

Virtually all of my rifles are built on Noveske uppers and lowers, and I have one Light Recce w/VIS. I think the VIS adds a little weight to the package but it's absolutely rigid and I think makes for a better rifle. That rifle has had about 6000 rounds through it, including 2000 rounds at a 3-day carbine course where all I did was oil it (no cleaning) -- has functioned flawlessly.

My only mishap with that Noveske rifle has been that the rear Troy sight fell off (lack of LocTite). Unfortunately, it fell off right at Jeff Gonzales' feet at that last TriCon course. I did not become "that guy", but it was not an impressive event.

The first thing I did was remove both F/R Troy's and apply blue lock-tite after alcohol-ing the screw.

I really like the VIS. I like to be able to wipe down the external barrel with CLP to protect against corrosion here in the humid south, but I don't like the idea of re-zeroing my BUIS every time I remove the rail to do it. The VLTOR VIS eliminates this issue. Further, I just think it looks cooler. As to weight, it's not a very heavy "rail". It may add 1/4#, but that's the max I would guess.

VLTOR is a VERY good company, as well. They are a division of Abrams. The company that helps NASA put things into outer-space and designs military-grade electronic housings (they know how to heat-sink things...)

I spoke with Kino for about a half hour about the MUR before I was finally on board with it. The amount of engineering in just the MUR is astounding. Cryo treatment, etc. He even e-mailed me pictures of multiple MUR's that had held together during fired OOB incidents. I was impressed!

The ultimate reason I prefer and went with the MUR and VIS for this setup was rigidity. I am going to be hanging 16oz off the end of the barrel. I wanted the most rigid receiver I could get to minimize POI shift. Noveske's re-profiled barrel is also VERY rigid, and they absolutely know how to concentrically thread it.

The thing most people question about my setup is the TA44SG-10.

If you have never tried it, you need to. All that babbling about the Bindon Aiming Concept finally makes sense when you move to 1.5X magnification.

Where the heck can you buy a Noveske upper and lower? The gun dealers around here say they are virtually impossible to get nowadays. I have looked at the online stores but they are always out of stock. Any suggestions?

The Noveske matched upper/lowers are nice - they are hand-fitted so they are absolutely exact...no slop or play whatsoever. Not that the play between any particular upper and lower has any effect on accuracy or function, but my general preference is for a rifle that doesn't rattle.

When I was looking for a couple of matched uppers/lowers about a year ago, I called Noveske. Shari told me that they were out of stock, but she gave me the names of a couple of their distributors where their most recent production run was headed. I called around to them, found some at JP Ten Sports in Texas and bought them there. Prior to that, I had always bought them from Noveske, but as you note, they are a hot commodity, especially now with their new version lower (as pictured above in ImportConvert's images. Noveske's first couple of runs of those matched uppers/lowers went to building their own rifles, next to their distributors, last to themselves for sale. They are still very hard to find.

Standard Lower:
Rainier Arms, LLC™ | Browse | Receivers - Lowers | Noveske Lower Receiver - 5.56MM
or the new forged one like mine...
Rainier Arms, LLC™ | Browse | Receivers - Lowers | Noveske Lower Receiver - 5.56MM GEN2
Upper:
Rainier Arms, LLC™ | Browse | Receivers - Upper | Noveske Upper Receiver w/Extended Feed Ramps (M4)
Matched Set:
Rainier Arms, LLC™ | Browse | Receivers - Lowers | Noveske Upper/Lower Matched Set
Or, if you want a VIS/MUR like I have, just buy from Vltor, they are who Noveske gets them from obviously.
Rainier Arms, LLC™ | Browse | Receivers - Upper | VLTOR MUR (Modular Upper Receiver) w/Forward Assist
Rainier Arms, LLC™ | Browse | VLTOR | VLTOR VIS Monolithic Upper Receiver - 10

I like Shari. She's a pretty face with some brains. So rare that the "receptionist" is also a brain.

Anyway, my upper/lower are not fitted as Vltor made the MUR/VIS, and Noveske made the lower, but it still fits VERY tight. I can move the two, but there is no rattle.

That being said, the rifles that do slop and rattle are just as accurate as the ones that don't.

I cannot recommend the VIS/MUR enough, if you are planning on suppression. For that matter, I wouldn't own a suppressed AR without a switchblock, and I FIRMLY believe in pinned blocks. The complete Noveske upper is the way to go imo. You won't find a better barrel, and that way you know the threads are concentric before you put your $1400 can on there and pull the trigger knowing that if they are not concentric, you will blow the end-cap out.

I did find Rainer Arms when searching, but didn't see the matched set option...I am down with that! Well I did the Notify Me thing, so I guess I will see if that will get me anywhere. It is better than the chuckle I get when I talk to a gun store guy.

If I were to go with the VIS or MUR, I would probably just buy a complete rifle, which I think would be more available. The logic being that there is probably more margin in complete rifles. Who knows...

Thanks for the information and I will let you know when I get my hands on a sexy Noveske anytime soon.

Better buy now!

Yep, NFA processing times are going through the roof. Why I bought a can NOW. Do it, or forever hold your peace.

Yet crime statistics keep dropping:

Crime rates keep dropping, FBI crime statistics show

We obviously need more gun control laws...

I think connecting A and B is a bit of a stretch.

I agree with you.

Yet if statistics indicated that crime were going up that connection (correlation I think is the best term) would be headline news every major newspaper and network newscast. New tough gun control legislation would be pushed for and gun owners would be demonized.

It is interesting though...usually when the economy hits the skids crime rises. Why do you think it has not?

http://crimetrends.com/sitebuilderco...pCr2000_09.jpg

Looks like it's not tied to "scary firearms" at all, as the sun-set of the AWB didn't have any effect what-so-ever.

Or maybe it IS! tied to firearms. Look at the little dip in violent crimes in 2008/2009...

http://articles.cnn.com/2008-11-11/j...er?_s=PM:CRIME

Hrrmmm...record firearm sales...record crime lows...hrmmm....

Just think, how would YOU behave if you knew nearly everyone had a firearm on their person? Would you cut people off in traffic as often? Yell at someone for taking too long at some task? It would make our society much more polite, I believe. Further, exactly how long do you think you would last on a shooting-spree on a college campus if every student and professor who wished to own a firearm and carry it was doing so? Yeah. Probably not nearly as long as some of those tragic events lasted. Nor as damaging.

Correlation != Causation regardless. Just about any time you see a statistical correlation used in an argument (especially in the news), there's no proof of causal link. It could as easily be that lower crime rates paradoxically cause an increase in the sales of guns by some social/psychological effect nobody's thought of. Or it could be that the average temperature rose 0.03 degrees during that timeframe, and rising temperatures cause both a drop in crime and an independent increase in gun sales. Or it could be random chance.

There are many more sound arguments for gun ownership than dubious crime stats correlations.

I don't think it would really matter.

After all, if everyone carries a gun, then isn't the playing field even?

Higher stakes. Things would not be the same.

Higher stakes than 3-ton automobiles being tossed at each other?

It's true that there's no proof of causation. The 47% decrease in violent crime rate since 1991 might be related to other factors than the 90 million increase in guns owned during that same period. No way to know.

OTOH, what we have NOT seen in an increase in violent crime associated with increased gun ownership, including over the last 8 years for so as states have had massive increases in handgun carry permits issued.

I read in the paper today that police officers killed with guns increased compared to last year. Not by much. I thought i throw that out there.

*sigh* sad thing to hear...

Yes. Would gun control have prevented that increase? Does that increase have anything to do with the increase in the number of concealed/carry permits across the US?

Whether gun control has anything to do with that at all the media will likely spin it against us... there's no one to stop them from doing so.

Do you remember that story ABC News did years ago to discredit concealed carry? They argued it was dangerous because it put guns in the hands of inexperienced people. To prove it, they took a sample of college students and set them up to fail. Tried to teach them to shoot in less than a day, then gave them a holster and a blank firing pistol and had them sit in class. They then would send a "gunman" into the classroom and watch as the kids 1) took forever to figure out what was going on and 2) fumbled around all of their crap to draw their pistol.

It was laughable to people like us that actually have a clue... but unfortunately they can pull those stunts off because the majority of the uninformed public is... well... uninformed and gullible.

In our society, we have become so civilized, mostly, that people don't need to walk around watching for threats and being prepared to react to them. For the vast majority, there just aren't any. The outcome of the show you mention was utterly predictable but only represents one, narrowly controlled, scenario. Furthermore, IMHO the important take-home point was that, although possessing the firearm didn't save their lives, they didn't hurt anybody with it either. So, apparently carrying a firearm is not a universal solution to staged active-shooter scenarios involving an experienced firearms handler and newbie college students in an auditorium, but it poses no risk to the rest of society either.

That's definitely an important point. Most of the anti-gun or the generally uninformed public tends to believe it's the gun itself that's doing all of the damage because that's what media and to an extent the government trains them to believe. I constantly have to remind skeptical friends that, unless it's by my doing, the Glock 26 in my holster is not going to jump out and start shooting at people.

Guns are safe in the hands of the responsible citizen. Instead of blaming the tool we need to be more productive as a society and blame the user...

Mentally, yes. People fear being shot more than having their car rammed.

+1

I never understood this mentality that some people have in that regard.

Cool. I think cars are bad. To prove it, I am going to take a bunch of 17 year-olds who have not been to driver's ed, and give them 8 hours at Spring Mountain. Then they will compete in the Petit Le Mans.

Predictions?

:roflpuke2:

Record for most safety car periods in the race. :bowrofl:

I think this is a particularly apt analogy. Thanks.

It is important to keep in mind that the main customer of the police is the public, and to be specific the subset of the public that would tend to be more willing to use their weapon against them.

Crime drop due to lax marijuana enforcement?
 

So crime rates have been dropping despite our horrible economy, and I think it is valid to not singularly point to gun ownership/concealed carry as the cause. BUT...I think it is large factor, and you better believe that politicians and news media people of a certain ilk would directly blame gun ownership/concealed carry if crime rates went up (not even acknowleding that crime goes up in a bad economy in the first place). Their lust for limiting people's freedom, thus gaining more power for themselves knows no bounds and can't be constrained by reason.

I would also like to point out a couple other things that may be in play with the declining crime rates:

To Obama and Holder's credit, they have to some extent, essentially decriminalized the possesion and distribution of marijuana. That in combination with the quasi-legalization of pot in several states (proud to say that Colorado has been a rational leader) has decoupled the most popular recreational drug activity from the much more nefarious activites of the "hard" drugs. Disclaimer: I am not a marijuana user, but have used it in the past. I am on the other hand a libertarian and wish to see all drugs decriminalized and regulated.

It is a shame that Obama has created a massive welfare state and has expanded government to unacceptable levels IMO. This seems to have lessened the impact that the bad economy has had on crime. Unfortunately this may have terrible consequences in the future as it will limit the opportunity for future generations to be properous, therefore not resort to crime. God forbid we have another economic downturn where we can't print money and artifically prop up th economy to get us through. Hopefully I am wrong...

So there is a whole lot of correlation for ya':tiphat:

H&K P2000SK or P30 for concealed carry?
 

I wanted to get some opinions about two models of H&Ks. I will be using it for a concealed carry firearm and most likely get an IWB holster. The two models I am considering are the P30 and the P2000SK. Right now I am favoring the P2000SK since it is about a half inch shorter.

Which one would your recommend?