the crank shaft its harmonic balance?

DEpointfive0 · 01-21-2013, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edub370

even without being an engineer, i know what happens when u mate 2 different metals with 2 melting/annealing points. but hey, i'll go ahead and stop mentioning it

How long will it take for the metals to melt into each other?

SS_Firehawk · 01-21-2013, 02:47 PM

How about this Red, you prove me wrong, I know how you love to try, so go ahead. I'm waiting.

Red__Zed · 01-21-2013, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

How about this Red, you prove me wrong, I know how you love to try, so go ahead. I'm waiting.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying you don't know enough to take the stance you are taking with any sort of authority.

Nobody here knows much about this, and the stance I've taken from the beginning is exactly that.

SS_Firehawk · 01-21-2013, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying you don't know enough to take the stance you are taking with any sort of authority.

Nobody here knows much about this, and the stance I've taken from the beginning is exactly that.

If it seems like that, that's not the case. I'm no authority and I'm all for differing opinions. I don't like when it starts feeling like a personal attack because we hold opinions. But I'm happy to take a stance.

It doesn't help this is probably the most opinionated modification.

Red__Zed · 01-21-2013, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

If it seems like that, that's not the case. I'm no authority and I'm all for differing opinions. I don't like when it starts feeling like a personal attack because we hold opinions. But I'm happy to take a stance.

It doesn't help this is probably the most opinionated modification.

I think posts like the below leave potential for someone to believe you are speaking fact, rather than your opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

Don't put words in my mouth. Aftermarket pulley's have not shown to be a catalyst of engine failure for our specific engine.

The stock pulley is not a harmonic dampener to remove potential damaging frequencies.

The stock pulley with the rubber dampening sandwiched between the cast iron pieces is for N/V/H and balancing of the pulley it's self. The pulley is also balanced afterward by tapping.

Torsional effects are mitigated by balancing the entire rotating assembly and adding counterweights to the crank. No external balancing was necessary.

Engineers that work on designing and manufacturing factory engines have advanced engineering to the point where in most cases, external balancing and/or harmonic dampeners aren't necessary.

I don't take your quotes out of context, please award me the same.

The way the bolded reads, there isn't room for another thought. The statement that it is not a harmonic damper is actually wrong--we just don't know whether it is an important harmonic damper

All I'm seeking to do is clarify the reality for anyone that is confused and considering the mod.

XwChriswX · 01-21-2013, 03:22 PM

Just to add some thought to those discussing AL melting points...

For the NST Pulley:

From: NST (NonStopTuning) 370Z VQ37HR Pulley Kit Review w/ Dyno Charts OP

There is a Steel sleeve around the internal part of the pulley. Won't that prevent some of the fusing you guys are projecting as a potential fail point?

Not trolling, this is what I was told that makes NST sets better than most.

DEpointfive0 · 01-21-2013, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XwChriswX

Just to add some thought to those discussing AL melting points...

For the NST Pulley:

From: NST (NonStopTuning) 370Z VQ37HR Pulley Kit Review w/ Dyno Charts OP

There is a Steel sleeve around the internal part of the pulley. Won't that prevent some of the fusing you guys are projecting as a potential fail point?

Not trolling, this is what I was told that makes NST sets better than most.

Stillen has the ring too

XwChriswX · 01-21-2013, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEpointfive0

Stillen has the ring too

( Click to show/hide )

lemon-fresh · 01-21-2013, 04:17 PM

Just because I've been really enjoying the discussion.

I think it's about time to toss this old classic into the mix:

JAY.mp4 video by GTMPOWER | Photobucket

Is it because there wasn't a steel sleeve?

XwChriswX · 01-21-2013, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemon-fresh

Just because I've been really enjoying the discussion.

I think it's about time to toss this old classic into the mix:

JAY.mp4 video by GTMPOWER | Photobucket

Is it because there wasn't a steel sleeve?

Unorthodox Racing... Not Stillen/NST

No mention of Steel Sleeve in advertising, and no pictures of the backside of the pulley.

From: Unorthodox Racing Crank Pulley w/Belts, Great Pricing. Check it out!!

Quote:

Description:Unorthodox Racing Ultra Accessory pulleys are included in our Ultra Street Sets or may be purchased separately. They are CNC-machined from light weight 6061-T6 aluminum billet. As with all Unorthodox Racing products, tolerances for each accessory pulley is held to within .001".

Off the record though, classic as it may be that isn't a VQ37... So it's not representative of this specific platform. Why? Because impact wrench.

edub370 · 01-21-2013, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemon-fresh

Just because I've been really enjoying the discussion.

I think it's about time to toss this old classic into the mix:

JAY.mp4 video by GTMPOWER | Photobucket

Is it because there wasn't a steel sleeve?

THANK YOU!

I had been looking for that vid since this thread started. and while its not a vq37, its still a good representation of what happens when mating to unlike materials

Trilitheum · 01-21-2013, 04:31 PM

Just to address an issue brought up in several posts "The rubber annular ring is only about 5mm thick, it can't fix or do ___X____"

This ring sets up a torsional "lag" between the inner and outer cast iron pieces, the thickness along with the durometer of the rubber dictates the response of the torsional damper. This thickness would be calculated to dampen in the target frequency (RPM) range.

The ring itself is not doing to dampening directly, it is coupling the inner and outer masses which as an entire system does the damping it really is a case of the result is more than the sum of its parts, it's how they work together.

DEpointfive0 · 01-21-2013, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemon-fresh

Just because I've been really enjoying the discussion.

I think it's about time to toss this old classic into the mix:

JAY.mp4 video by GTMPOWER | Photobucket

Is it because there wasn't a steel sleeve?

Honestly, I wouldn't use an impact wrench to take it off

Also, the BOLT has fused... Nothing to do with the pulley, no?

And a LOT of people have a TON of problems taking the stock pulley off

luigi90210 · 01-21-2013, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemon-fresh

Just because I've been really enjoying the discussion.

I think it's about time to toss this old classic into the mix:

JAY.mp4 video by GTMPOWER | Photobucket

Is it because there wasn't a steel sleeve?

^THIS

im very open minded to mods but this is one mod i will never recommend to someone or ever do myself, to much of a risk

Quote:

Originally Posted by XwChriswX

Oh, yeah I saw that then. Different attempts at the same (Unorthodox Racing) Pulley.

the second one said stillen on the part though

edub370 · 01-21-2013, 03:27 PM

The steel sleeve is for just that reason companies that don't put that much thought into this issue will have an issue with the metals fusing as stated above. And no i dont have an exact time from on how long this takes to occur

with all the given controversy as it is, WHY even risk it to gain a neglegable amount of power?? why risk it?

01-21-2013, 02:47 PM	#2 (permalink)
SS_Firehawk Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Tampa Posts: 4,142 Drives: 13' Magma Red Nismo Rep Power: 7335	How about this Red, you prove me wrong, I know how you love to try, so go ahead. I'm waiting. __________________ Old Car:GTM TSC'd 550whp / 410lbft tq @ 11.88PSI New Car: Under Construction

01-21-2013, 03:22 PM	#6 (permalink)
XwChriswX WFLYIDNNE Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: In The Fastlane Posts: 50,648 Drives: 02 GDB WRX Rep Power: 453	Just to add some thought to those discussing AL melting points... For the NST Pulley: From: NST (NonStopTuning) 370Z VQ37HR Pulley Kit Review w/ Dyno Charts OP There is a Steel sleeve around the internal part of the pulley. Won't that prevent some of the fusing you guys are projecting as a potential fail point? Not trolling, this is what I was told that makes NST sets better than most. DEpointfive0 likes this. __________________ Bonnie - Stage 2, Audio build coming this fall! R.I.P. Abby 3/29/10 - 3/30/14

01-21-2013, 04:31 PM	#12 (permalink)
Trilitheum Base Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Ontario Posts: 210 Drives: '11 370z 6M KAD Spt Rep Power: 15	Just to address an issue brought up in several posts "The rubber annular ring is only about 5mm thick, it can't fix or do ___X____" This ring sets up a torsional "lag" between the inner and outer cast iron pieces, the thickness along with the durometer of the rubber dictates the response of the torsional damper. This thickness would be calculated to dampen in the target frequency (RPM) range. The ring itself is not doing to dampening directly, it is coupling the inner and outer masses which as an entire system does the damping it really is a case of the result is more than the sum of its parts, it's how they work together. Red__Zed and DEpointfive0 like this. __________________ 2011 Nissan 370Z Touring/Sport, 6MT, KAD

01-21-2013, 03:27 PM	#15 (permalink)
edub370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2011 Location: KCMO Posts: 3,458 Drives: 09 370z S/T 6MT Rep Power: 21	The steel sleeve is for just that reason companies that don't put that much thought into this issue will have an issue with the metals fusing as stated above. And no i dont have an exact time from on how long this takes to occur with all the given controversy as it is, WHY even risk it to gain a neglegable amount of power?? why risk it? __________________ 09 370Z ST 6MT//Injen CAI//Greddy CBE//TP//TSW's//Swifts//Stillen lip//Whiteline sways 326whp/268tq Last edited by edub370; 01-21-2013 at 03:30 PM.

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01-21-2013, 04:17 PM	#9 (permalink)
lemon-fresh Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Calgary Age: 40 Posts: 471 Drives: 09 370z Rep Power: 14	Just because I've been really enjoying the discussion. I think it's about time to toss this old classic into the mix: JAY.mp4 video by GTMPOWER \| Photobucket Is it because there wasn't a steel sleeve?