I agree to some extent Chuck. They definitely could wave a 'restocking fee' (lol at the irony in this term) in order to save face and not have people giving negative feedback. Many businesses would, others don't, thats GTM's choice. It looks like Mike made some effort to help out by a) not charging the full 25% and b) offering to put the $ towards other parts.

If the poster (forgot the username, sorry) could post more detail and explain why he didn't just get exactly $475 worth of parts, then it would be easier to comment. Not knowing more detail it seems weird to right off the $475 instead of at least getting something out of it? Again, not attacking poster, just need more detail.

The initial reason that he had 'restocking fee' written into the contract is because he was using the 'layaway' setup to try to save some money. Correct me if I am wrong but no one who paid up front has been charged this fee, correct?

So tell me, People who signed up for the group buy but still didnt pay anything. How you going to charge them $475 if they decided to move on?

I know GTM doesnt like getting people's money for nothing, Mike and Pablo saved my wallet a good amount of money and I really appreciate that. Pablo is a very nice guy.

But this restocking fees is what bothers me. I seriously have no idea how you guys are going to charge $475 for people who didnt pay yet.

I have no stake. Just disappointed to see what's happening. Hurts the FI community.

Only stake I have is that I pushed 2 people onto this kit... Now I feel like the ultimate d-bag...

Wow! I am a special kind of person apparently. I am able to look at this situation 'THAT I AM ACTUALLY INVOLVED IN UNLIKE YOU!!!' objectively and without prejudice and can understand what is going on.

I do have fun on my island. We are one of the richest countries in the world, with one of the highest standards of living in the world and on a per capita basis our economy pisses all over yours. Life on the island is fantastic! :)

Uhoh, just resorted to country vs country attacks on a US based forum.....everyone apart from eldouchebagio, please ignore those remarks :P

We need AK.

How many have backed out that were involved? What's your point about being in it or not? As I said calm down and look around. The island your on is in what you put quotation marks. I could care less about ur personal life or where u live. Good try tho.

True. However GTM have purchased products in order to fulfil a contract with the purchaser. Once the purchaser pulls out, GTM are stuck with the product and the loss of the already invested $. They must be able to charge a fee to help to recover these lost $. They don't have to and due to the massive delays, they probably shouldn't because it looks bad (obviously!) but that doesn't mean that they cant.

You never see him on here anymore.

Im perfectly calm. Sitting here on my island, eating coconuts, enjoying the sunshine, throwing shrimps on the barbie, watching kangaroos hop by and waiting for my turbos to be shipped. Oh, and watching the value of my TT kit go up :P

I don't really understand the rest of your comment especially "The island your on is in what you put quotation marks." Did i miss something that got deleted by Trips?

Regarding your earlier post, I understand the cost of R&D. I signed up at the end of August, so the ball was rolling way before they received any of my money.

I sent them $1900 to get started. 25% of 1900 is $475. The reason I decided to eat it is because the invoice they provided me was crazy. Over $400 from which I could get from another vendor. Their advertised price. For the same exact items. $200 more for a clutch and flywheel. I asked if there was anything that GTM could do regards to pricing seeing as how I could get the same products for literally hundreds less than their invoice. I was told no. I feel thats horrible customer service and the reason that they wouldnt budge is because im screwed both ways. Pay over $400 more for the same product, or lose $475 and go with another company who I know has better customer service. Im going to support a company who I feel wants my business. So rather than spending $2100 to support them, I would rather reluctantly eat $475 to prevent from giving them any more money.

Disagree; that's the business's decision. You CANNOT CHARM THE CUSTOMER for what YOU think is the correct way to run a business. You can outsource everything to China and make it for less, you aren't required to buy equipment to make things in house; after all, how have they been making the previous 1000 turbo kits and S/C kits?

I'm not referring to where you live. Who cares where u live?
You're the only one defending the company that has your money that doesn't tell u anything or update you on the progress. Did u look around and see anyone else defending? You're all alone. You like to be left in the dark? Cool. Not people here in 'Murica. We work hard for our money.

Thanks for clarifying Dragonbreath!

Were the prices that they quoted you for the parts the same as the prices listed on their web page? Or did they quote you more than their normal retail prices for the parts?

I totally understand that you decided to not give them any business as you were unhappy. No problem there at all. Thats what happens when a company lets people down, they lose more than just the initial business. They lose a lot of potential future business as well.

I probably would have just ordered $475 or so of parts from them and moved on. Looks like it would have been a good opportunity to cut losses and get away from the bad deal cheaply. But I have the advantage of hindsight so I hope that you are now moving forward and still going FI!

F.I. has a $1000 non refundable deposit on their kit just to place an order. good thing dragonbreath didn't order one of those and change his mind.

Don't you wish people would stick to their promises? Whatever happened to "you have my word"?

At least people want that kit and it's easy to sell to the next guy with little to no loss, lol

No the prices they gave me were also their advertised prices on their website. If it was more I would have stroked out lol. Unfortunately I didn't have the option of only spending $475. It was all or nothing.

Well i guess that you cant really blame them for wanting to charge their normal prices. Again, they could have kept you onside by charging less but decided not too, their choice, customer(s?) lost.

So GTM only gave you the option of getting the $475 back if you bought $2000+ worth of parts? If so, thats a bit low. They probably could have played ball a little better than that to keep you onside.

This is getting out of hand...we need to wait for gtm to respond. It seems to me that gtm is not a company that has worked so hard to be where they are only to loose it with these issues. I am sure $475 is not worth their reputation. Please let them address it. Until then...we should chill and let the parties that have actual vested interested work it out with the support of the mods here.

If FI had a kit for the G37 and RHD then i probably would have gone for this after about 6 months of delays. The full exhaust that I have from Tony is picture perfect and I would expect the TT kit to be the same!

Gtm burnt themselves on this group buy.

that's if they will give you the deposit back when you get the order transferred. Companies charging for preorder fees, non refundable deposits, restocking fees, it's all the same it's a don't change your mind fee whatever you call it. And i totally disagree DE about companies not charging r&d costs under deposits, I work in manufacturing, and NEVER have i outsourced something to any shop and not gotten charged a setup, programming, or tooling fee. Often the setup fees can cost more than the entire batch of parts. We used to deal with cast aluminum housings for paper core shafts and each of the 9000 11lb housings were $15, but the setup fee was $1.5mil. I wonder what gtm had to pay in mold fees considering they are casting 6 different parts for the manifolds and turbo outlets. Especially considering they only have like 10 people that have still paid. Fraud omg the amount you guys have paid them probably doesn't come close to what they have paid for the parts just to get setup.

We are in manufacturing too, but you can't pawn off the cost of your investment to the customer when you don't have a product.
Companies lose money, shít happens. I wouldn't lose my integrity over $500 when my company is the size of GTM's

Maybe it's just the way I do business, I don't see it like that

Oooooooooh ok lol. Now I get it. Australia being an island, i thought that you were having a go at that. We're just as patriotic as you guys so I got my back up.

I think that you are looking at my comments incorrectly. I am not defending anyone. I am just looking at the entire situation and can see where the mistakes are being made but don't agree with people attacking the company with incorrect facts and random statements. Especially people who are not actually involved in the GB.

GTM have stuffed up big time. Their communication sucks. They will lose business because of this. They could handle this MUCH better. All that being said, i don't think that they are purposely ripping anyone off or trying to take anyones money.

The knives have apparently now come out and some people are just posting up ridiculous comments trying to make GTM look bad. Some of it is well directed but there is an awful lot that is just petty and childish.

You need to understand that we have paid GTM to purchase some parts and manufacture others and then deliver them to us. If we ask them to do this, they go out and start doing it, then we change our mind and pull out, then GTM most certainly have the right to ask for some compensation to cover the costs of the parts that they have already purchased on our behalf.

Due to the fact that this is a 'kit' you could argue that the entire kit is one part so technically if they don't deliver the whole thing, then they cant charge a restocking fee on the individual parts. Im not 100% sure how this would legally in the US but my invoice lists each individual part (to a point) and its price so its not really one single product.

Due to the delays, I would personally be pissed off if they asked for 'restocking fee'. The way that i do business, i would take that on the chin, right it off to save face and not piss off my client base. GTM chose not to do it the same way that I would and that is completely ok. It will lose them business in the long run but they base their business decisions on their own situation and their own mindsets.

Im late for work now so i just have one more comment then Im out.

Gimme my TT kit!!!!!! :)

Just an FYI, it took them 6 weeks to reply back about my inquiry on my current kit. TThey are slow both ways. Sucks to see you guys having issues on refunds. Hope it gets cleared up, for both parties sake.

Understood.

A lot of the people who are chiming in were in the group buy or have dealt directly. It probably is getting out of hand but it's not one sided. There's plenty of blame to go around. But it starts at the top. people can only tolerate waiting in the dark for so long before they start to pop. Spohn was a big fan and everyonr has their limits. Just ashame to see what's happening in the FI community.

I'm sure this has caused doubt for a lot of people to go FI. Hell to even be apart of another group buy. I hope everything gets resolved soon.

:iagree:

I just think that charging a restocking fee in light of the rest of this debacle is pretty weak. It's in the contract, but sometimes you gotta let some **** slide.

I have an idea. Either get out of the group and go on your way. Or stay in and wait with no complaints. It's obvious what GTM is about. Deal with it or not. FI is not the end of the world.

If you request money call GTM and make an agreement. If that fails take extreme actions.

Totally agree 100% Chuck.

Some people jumped on this as if GTM had done something illegal and that everyone should be up in arms for their despicable actions. Weak it may be but unexpected? Not at all.

The 'restocking fee' was written into the contract to protect GTM in the case that people who have not paid fully upfront pull out of the deal. Its all about risk management and people who pay 100% upfront are far less likely to pull out than people who go with a layaway deal or finance. Hence GTM add 25% clause to try to protect themselves from this. It reduces the risk of people who have less invested up-front, pulling out. This is common business practice all over the world and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it at all.

In the light of the delays, GTM had the choice to waive this fee but chose not to. That's their choice and a mix of financial situation and business practice is what would drive this choice. The purchaser knew about this potential cost up-front, was not purposely mislead in any way and unfortunately when things were delayed (MASSIVELY), ended up having to wear it due to his decision to pull out.

The biggest disappointment for me is purely the communication from GTM. They have definitely come to the party and partially made up for the delays by upgrading to the Garrett turbo's, which add's HUGE value to the kits. If they could just find a way to spend a little more time speaking with their clients, then this would all be a non-event and EVERYONE would still be excited about getting their kits.

Personally, once I am spending my days shredding tires on the highway in third gear, all of this crap will be well and truly forgotten! Eyes on the prize everyone! Eyes on the prize! :)

"Restocking fee?":roflpuke2::roflpuke2::roflpuke2:

For the record, I don't believe GTM is intentionally holding my money or trying to rip me off. I just think they completely dropped the ball on handling my refund and I'm sick of taking time out of my day week after week to call them and get the run around. I rarely can catch Sam, even rarer that I get I call back and forget about getting an email response. Every time I call I have to explain my situation. It's like they've never heard of me. Enough is enough. I'm letting my bank handle it from here.


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This is blowing up way out of hand. :ugh2:

Not like we need more opinions flying around and whatnot - but honestly, in the grand scheme of things, I think this could simply be resolved if GTM chimes in, and gives us a two things

- Make sure refunds are issued properly and quickly, and sort those out first. That would help customer relations massively. If refunds go out, people will be more comfortable with leaving their money in GTM's hands, and other people who want to back out will have the choice to do so, and promptly.

- Give us an update on where they truly are with things. Honestly, if they were to tell us that the cast parts are not coming for another month or two, I personally would have no qualms about it. I understand that others would like their kits now, and it leaves them with the decision to back out or stay in it. For me, there is not currently another option of which I feel desirable with my budget. I am in no rush to have my car done - but I want to know when I can expect my kit, in a honest, no-bs answer.

Fast Intentions is obviously my other choice for a twin turbo kit. But it's also outside of my budget. I honestly still have faith in GTM - if they pull this off, they will have many happy owners of a kick-*** turbo kit, and lots of turbo Z's on the road. I honestly feel like this could be a pivotal point for our platform. Lots of new forced induction cars on the road, pushing limits and exploring new things.

I have purchased over 20k in products from gtm back in the day when I had my 350z. It wasn't until I purchased my Stage II TT kit from that I learned that they were lacking in customer service. At the time I liked mike and sam very much but always seemed they were running around like chickens with theirs heads cut off and a simple phone conversation seemed rushed. After ordering my kit I was given a rough eta on a ship date in which was 2 months after that and having to threaten to cancel did I finally receive my kit. The driver side turbo was supposed to be clocked and I had to take apart the entire driver side to clock it into the right position. So I called gtm and spoke with mike and he swore up and down that no one had ever had any problems and it was only me. He also told me that my stillen exhaust would bolt up to their 3'' test pipes and they didn't, when I called again to let him know he just blew me off and suggested buying their 3'' exhaust. The point I am trying to make here is I once was a big gtm follower like spohn (no pun intended) but I soon learned they weren't all what they cracked up to be. Being warned from Trips I have stepped back and read this thread every day hoping something will happen one way or the other but it seems gtm is immune and the fact of the matter is I care about my fellow members here and just hate to see the way they have been treated. To me the question is, shouldn't paid sponsor's here be allowed to do this to members with no repercussions?? I feel for you guys and I hope this works out for you in a positive way..

I would say others should hold judgement until GTM has a chance to respond, and Trips/AK make contact and work out a amicable solution.

At the end of the day - this isn't about war between customers, forum members, companies, and admins - this is about resolving some issues, and making everyone happy.

It seem some don't understand contract law. A contract must be completed in a reasonable amount of time even if no specific dates are in the contract. GTM can't hold the money "forever". If the restocking fee was challenged in court (not worth the time, just saying), the contract would be voided and a full refund would be ordered.

All this talk about waiting for GTM to chime in before accusations. Its been 5 days since they have logged into the forums. You would imagine they would chime in multiple times a day since there using the forum as a primary way of selling a product. Yea.....you would imagine.

Correct.

What is the legal definition of "reasonable amount of time" though?
1 month? 6 months? 18 months?

You shouldn't state with such certainty that the contract would be voided and the restocking fee turned over in court. It's a very grey area.

There would be 1 of 2 conclusions. Either it would be thrown out or GTM would talk their way into a specific performance date, which would be just as good for most people who still want the kit.

*edit* - what would really happen is GTM would not show up to the small claims court date over $4xx.xx and there would be a default judgment.