GTM stage 2 Air Conditioner Problem?

LafitteZ · 06-30-2012, 09:21 PM

Gtm sells the remedy but they blow the price up like crazy. They sell the shroud and fan set up.

Baer383 · 06-30-2012, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LafitteZ

Gtm sells the remedy but they blow the price up like crazy. They sell the shroud and fan set up.

When I had my built Camaro I used Spal fans(I have 2 on my 370 now 6.5in oil cooler,trans cooler)these things are made in Italy and move allot of air they have solved every hot issue I put them on.

LafitteZ · 06-30-2012, 09:52 PM

Where do I get them? That's what I want to do.

Baer383 · 06-30-2012, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LafitteZ

Where do I get them? That's what I want to do.

I'm sorry I thought you meant the 6.5in fan,but the 12-14 will work well.

Baer383 · 06-30-2012, 10:17 PM

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SAM@GTM · 07-02-2012, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LafitteZ

I had the kit installed at z1 and the day I picked it up we started to have this problem. If at idle or slowly driving around like in traffic if the temperature outside gets hot the ac starts to blow hot air and the compressor doesnt seem to kick on like normal. I have a 34 row oil cooler and vis vented hood and we took the drip pans off so the vents were open and it seemed to help but that was in georgia and winter began right after that. Well ive since installed a csf radiator trying to prepare for the heat and humidity down here in NEW ORLEANS. Well the outside temps are in the 100 range and the ac is blowing hot a heck. The oil and water temps are even better then stock. Theres enough freon in the system so theres no leak or leaks so I dont know what else too do? Any ideas?

Quote:

Originally Posted by LafitteZ

I didn't really ask. I just know they are in spec.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LafitteZ

When it starts if I idle with the hood up it warms up but the compressor stays on. Once I start to roll or idle with the hood down it kicks off. At night or once it cools down outside it blows cold as ice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LafitteZ

I really dont think its the freon. My car did it before and now after a csf radiator. I wonder if theres some kind of thermostat or something thats reading the temps extremely high and kicking the compressor off? When its about 100 degrees out side my outside temp gauge reads like 110. Not sure if it has anything to do with it but just an idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LafitteZ

Yep exactly. Its too hot and humid for this in louisiana. I even have a vented hood and aftermarket radiator and oil cooler and its still doing it. As long as im driving theres no problem. I try to drive around the mall or light traffic or anything like that then it blows hot. I can even hear the compressor not on because my idle is really low. When the compressor kicks on the idle usually kicks up a few rpms.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LafitteZ

they must be on because the water temps are way down and stabilized.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LafitteZ

wonder if it may need high output fans? Or mabe some kind of vents from the bottom of the car if its possible?

Quote:

Originally Posted by LafitteZ

Yea they certainly don't like the heat. What about putting a larger single fan in front of the radiator or mabe behind the intercooler? Man I have to get this fixed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LafitteZ

Y'all are missing the point. The oil temps and water temps are better then stock. For instance 200 degree oil temp and water temp 3 dots left from the center and sitting in traffic the ac blows hot air. As soon as you going it still takes a few seconds before it starts to be cold again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LafitteZ

And most of us with the problem is with turbo set ups. Thanks for the links tho. Anything helps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LafitteZ

Talked to rob at z1. We are going to make a colder temp water thermostat. We're also going to take a mishimoto fan shroud and put some super high output fans. Didnt realize the fans on the vhr is the same on the de. They are crap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LafitteZ

Yea mishimoto thermostats are garbage so were going to use a nismo thermostat from the de 350z. We're going to use the fan shroud from the mishi Moto kit but were going to cut the holes to fit bigger fans and were going to use I think the name is sprall fans. One fan puts out twice as much cfm as both of our factory fans together. A bigger radiator may be a good fix but I already put a csf radiator and the temps are good with water and oil we need to get the air to start flowing to get the hot air between the intercooler and condenser moving while at idle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LafitteZ

Gtm sells the remedy but they blow the price up like crazy. They sell the shroud and fan set up.

Man, you are all over the place. I don't get you. You start a thread asking for help and we make a suggestion to try and figure out what is going on with the car and you come back with everything under the sun without diagnosing the problem. If you want to throw parts at the car without knowing the cause and the correction for the problem, be my guest. I can assure you that there is no connection between your A/C shutting off and having a twin turbo kit on the car.

Prime example right here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

I'm having this exact issue and am taking it in to the dealership to have it looked at. It will blow hot if I'm waiting at an on-ramp light, when I accelerate, or if I leave it sit for a few minutes. It takes me five minutes fighting with it until it starts working again. Yesterday was over 110 and it was a nightmare. My oil temps stabilized at about 190-195 driving around and would get to about 215-220 idling. Water "dots" didn't move. I didn't feel like pulling out Cipher to log the exact temps. It is occurring more often when it's warmer.

This guy has an NA setup and no turbo kit, yet is experiencing the exact same problem. How do you explain that?

The reason why I asked you to check the refrigerant high and low pressure is not to find out whether or not you have enough freon, but to really get a good idea of how the system is operating mechanically.

If you go to the doctor and you are feeling dizzy, what is the first thing they check? Your blood pressure!!!!! Checking the refrigerant pressure is the exact same thing. It has nothing to do with how much refrigerant there is. In fact, sometimes, having too much will cause problems. The pressure differential between the high and low sides must be within a certain range. If the pressures are out of spec, then there is a problem. Remember, the pressure is going to be related to the ambient temperature.

Once we are done with AC 101 basic testing, then we can move forward. If your AC high side pressure is higher than normal, then the factory ECU will shut down the system due to excessive pressure to protect the system. If your low side is too low, then the system will also shut off the AC. If your pressures are perfectly normal according to the ambient temperature you are in, then there could be a mechanical issue. Also, if your system has been disconnected for the radiator replacement or a turbo install, and the system was not vacuumed out, then that will kill your AC performance because moisture in the system will cause major problems. That's why you have a receiver dryer to keep the refrigerant free of moisture.

So, throwing parts at the car is not the answer. Get it diagnosed correctly. The stock system is tiny and it doesn't take much for it to go out of range if there is a problem. The Stock fans are perfectly fine and more than capable of doing the job...especially for a daily driver.

Ron · 07-02-2012, 02:35 PM

Sam how does one check the high/low pressure on the system?

SAM@GTM · 07-02-2012, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron

Sam how does one check the high/low pressure on the system?

There is special A/C gauge set to check the a/c system pressure, It takes less then a minute to install them sense every system from the factory has a test port that is market L for low side and H high side . very simple very straight forward

Sam

hindi1973 · 07-02-2012, 04:18 PM

sam i think low should be with in 32 to 35 psi a, and high 220 to 240psi ? correct ?

SPOHN · 07-02-2012, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAM@GTM

The reason why I asked you to check the refrigerant high and low pressure is not to find out whether or not you have enough freon, but to really get a good idea of how the system is operating mechanically.

If you go to the doctor and you are feeling dizzy, what is the first thing they check? Your blood pressure!!!!! Checking the refrigerant pressure is the exact same thing. It has nothing to do with how much refrigerant there is. In fact, sometimes, having too much will cause problems. The pressure differential between the high and low sides must be within a certain range. If the pressures are out of spec, then there is a problem. Remember, the pressure is going to be related to the ambient temperature.

Once we are done with AC 101 basic testing, then we can move forward. If your AC high side pressure is higher than normal, then the factory ECU will shut down the system due to excessive pressure to protect the system. If your low side is too low, then the system will also shut off the AC. If your pressures are perfectly normal according to the ambient temperature you are in, then there could be a mechanical issue. Also, if your system has been disconnected for the radiator replacement or a turbo install, and the system was not vacuumed out, then that will kill your AC performance because moisture in the system will cause major problems. That's why you have a receiver dryer to keep the refrigerant free of moisture.

Very insightful.

LafitteZ · 07-02-2012, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAM@GTM

Man, you are all over the place. I don't get you. You start a thread asking for help and we make a suggestion to try and figure out what is going on with the car and you come back with everything under the sun without diagnosing the problem. If you want to throw parts at the car without knowing the cause and the correction for the problem, be my guest. I can assure you that there is no connection between your A/C shutting off and having a twin turbo kit on the car.

Prime example right here:

This guy has an NA setup and no turbo kit, yet is experiencing the exact same problem. How do you explain that?

The reason why I asked you to check the refrigerant high and low pressure is not to find out whether or not you have enough freon, but to really get a good idea of how the system is operating mechanically.

If you go to the doctor and you are feeling dizzy, what is the first thing they check? Your blood pressure!!!!! Checking the refrigerant pressure is the exact same thing. It has nothing to do with how much refrigerant there is. In fact, sometimes, having too much will cause problems. The pressure differential between the high and low sides must be within a certain range. If the pressures are out of spec, then there is a problem. Remember, the pressure is going to be related to the ambient temperature.

Once we are done with AC 101 basic testing, then we can move forward. If your AC high side pressure is higher than normal, then the factory ECU will shut down the system due to excessive pressure to protect the system. If your low side is too low, then the system will also shut off the AC. If your pressures are perfectly normal according to the ambient temperature you are in, then there could be a mechanical issue. Also, if your system has been disconnected for the radiator replacement or a turbo install, and the system was not vacuumed out, then that will kill your AC performance because moisture in the system will cause major problems. That's why you have a receiver dryer to keep the refrigerant free of moisture.

So, throwing parts at the car is not the answer. Get it diagnosed correctly. The stock system is tiny and it doesn't take much for it to go out of range if there is a problem. The Stock fans are perfectly fine and more than capable of doing the job...especially for a daily driver.

If you read back I said I don't know what they are but according to the mechanic I went to they looked fine. I'm not a mechanic or specialist. I just live in a place where there are not gtms, z1s or forged performances any where near me. Iv tryed to get in touch with people at gtm on the phone and on here before with no answer so my best is to try to converse with people on here just to figure out the problem. I may seem like a 1 grader of car lingo but I'm trying to do my best with what I have meanwhile sweating my *** off for 60 miles round trip to work and home. A little frustrating when I have to wait days at a time to get any usable feedback. I don't have time to call a place 100 times a day and wait to get a o well leave your number and they'll call back only to get nothing. I respect you guys and I know you have other stuff to do to but I'm just doing the best I can with just my fellow forum members because there the only ones responding with something I can understand. If you guys can help me get this sorted out I'd greatly appreciate it.

LafitteZ · 07-02-2012, 06:53 PM

Im also not saying the turbo kit is faulty. Im saying its kindve funny that alot of us where it is hot is having this problem. It happened to me the day i picked the car up last summer and its now happening again this summer. Its never happened every before this kit. What i meant by help was for one if you ever heard of this problem. So with that being said the ac pressures seem to be fine. I personally think it has to do with the heat build up between the radiator and fmic. I have a big 34 row oil cooler in there also. If its not a mechanical problem do you think it may be just an airflow problem?

SAM@GTM · 07-02-2012, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LafitteZ

If you read back I said I don't know what they are but according to the mechanic I went to they looked fine. I'm not a mechanic or specialist. I just live in a place where there are not gtms, z1s or forged performances any where near me. Iv tryed to get in touch with people at gtm on the phone and on here before with no answer so my best is to try to converse with people on here just to figure out the problem. I may seem like a 1 grader of car lingo but I'm trying to do my best with what I have meanwhile sweating my *** off for 60 miles round trip to work and home. A little frustrating when I have to wait days at a time to get any usable feedback. I don't have time to call a place 100 times a day and wait to get a o well leave your number and they'll call back only to get nothing. I respect you guys and I know you have other stuff to do to but I'm just doing the best I can with just my fellow forum members because there the only ones responding with something I can understand. If you guys can help me get this sorted out I'd greatly appreciate it.

It is hard enough to try and diagnose a problem over the internet, so in my opinion, the mechanic saying that it is fine, is not good enough. If he went through the trouble of hooking up the gauges, then what was the pressure like? What was the ambient temperature the day he checked the pressure? How cold was the A/C blowing out of the vent? All this information would help us help you.

As for us not calling you back, if you called once and for some reason we missed your call, call us again. I'm very accessible by phone.

Don't take this as me trying to give you a hard time, but everything I'm asking is for a good reason. There is a certain process of trying to diagnose a problem that must be done by the letter, otherwise you end up wasting a bunch of time and money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LafitteZ

Im also not saying the turbo kit is faulty. Im saying its kindve funny that alot of us where it is hot is having this problem. It happened to me the day i picked the car up last summer and its now happening again this summer. Its never happened every before this kit. What i meant by help was for one if you ever heard of this problem. So with that being said the ac pressures seem to be fine. I personally think it has to do with the heat build up between the radiator and fmic. I have a big 34 row oil cooler in there also. If its not a mechanical problem do you think it may be just an airflow problem?

I'm not taking what you posted as you saying that our kit is faulty, because there is no reason for the A/C to completely shut off even with a front mount intercooler and oil cooler in front of the condenser. Yes, it could hinder it a little on a super hot day, but what you are describing is that the A/C is completely shutting off and that is a big difference.

Here are some questions.

1) Was the engine removed from the car when the turbo kit was installed?
2) If yes, was the A/C system evacuated for a minimum of 45 minutes to an hour at 27inHg of vacuum?
3) If it was not done or there is a doubt that it was not done, then you should consider taking it to an A/C specialist and having them completely vacuum out the system and recharge it. That should run you less than $100 or so...much cheaper than throwing parts at the car.
4) Verify your coolant temperature even though keep in mind that the factory gauge is a dummy gauge and is not very accurate. You can't rely on how many dots you are seeing. Hook up your Cipher cable, drive your car and try to establish at what coolant temperature the vehicle is shutting off the A/C. Also, when the A/C shuts off, pull over, open the hood and see if your compressor is cycling and both of your fans are blowing on high speed. If the compressor is cycling and still there is no cold air, it could be as simple as moisture in the system or a problem with the receiver/dryer.

Do that and get back to us. These are simple things you can do easily to determine the root cause of the problem.

Sam

SAM@GTM · 07-02-2012, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hindi1973

sam i think low should be with in 32 to 35 psi a, and high 220 to 240psi ? correct ?

That sounds about right as long as you are in the 85 degree Fahrenheit ambient temperature range.

Sam

LafitteZ · 07-02-2012, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAM@GTM

It is hard enough to try and diagnose a problem over the internet, so in my opinion, the mechanic saying that it is fine, is not good enough. If he went through the trouble of hooking up the gauges, then what was the pressure like? What was the ambient temperature the day he checked the pressure? How cold was the A/C blowing out of the vent? All this information would help us help you.

As for us not calling you back, if you called once and for some reason we missed your call, call us again. I'm very accessible by phone.

Don't take this as me trying to give you a hard time, but everything I'm asking is for a good reason. There is a certain process of trying to diagnose a problem that must be done by the letter, otherwise you end up wasting a bunch of time and money.

I'm not taking what you posted as you saying that our kit is faulty, because there is no reason for the A/C to completely shut off even with a front mount intercooler and oil cooler in front of the condenser. Yes, it could hinder it a little on a super hot day, but what you are describing is that the A/C is completely shutting off and that is a big difference.

Here are some questions.

1) Was the engine removed from the car when the turbo kit was installed?
2) If yes, was the A/C system evacuated for a minimum of 45 minutes to an hour at 27inHg of vacuum?
3) If it was not done or there is a doubt that it was not done, then you should consider taking it to an A/C specialist and having them completely vacuum out the system and recharge it. That should run you less than $100 or so...much cheaper than throwing parts at the car.
4) Verify your coolant temperature even though keep in mind that the factory gauge is a dummy gauge and is not very accurate. You can't rely on how many dots you are seeing. Hook up your Cipher cable, drive your car and try to establish at what coolant temperature the vehicle is shutting off the A/C. Also, when the A/C shuts off, pull over, open the hood and see if your compressor is cycling and both of your fans are blowing on high speed. If the compressor is cycling and still there is no cold air, it could be as simple as moisture in the system or a problem with the receiver/dryer.

Do that and get back to us. These are simple things you can do easily to determine the root cause of the problem.

Sam

Thanks man sry for the frustration. just a pain in the rear ya know. Im going to see if I can get hooked up with a hopefully decent mechanic around here that i can ask some definite numbers. Z1 I guess has my cable or I didnt get one for some reason. Im going to see if I can get one to see whats going on. This is some stuff I can use. Thanks again ill be in touch.

06-30-2012, 10:17 PM	#50 (permalink)
Baer383 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Lawrenceville,Ga Posts: 4,293 Drives: My foot up your azz Rep Power: 29	- __________________ 2013 ZL1 754 rwhp 747 rwtq Last edited by Baer383; 07-01-2012 at 10:16 AM.

07-02-2012, 02:35 PM	#52 (permalink)
Ron A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 3,009 Drives: TT '11 PW Nismo #113 Rep Power: 21	Sam how does one check the high/low pressure on the system? __________________ 2011 Twin Turbo PW nismo #113 - My Journal - My TT Build Thread [ GTM GTX Stg2 TT \|\| HKS EVC6 \|\| Custom CarPC \|\| F.I 3'' TDX CBE \|\| SB 6puck clutch/ZSpeed CSC \|\| BC BR Coilovers \|\| SPC camber arms \|\| Work VSS-X \|\| Custom Headlights \|\| PW:JDM CF Covers \|\| Seibon CF Engine Cover ]

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06-30-2012, 09:21 PM	#46 (permalink)
LafitteZ Track Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: lafitte, la Posts: 698 Drives: 40th anniversary Rep Power: 15	Gtm sells the remedy but they blow the price up like crazy. They sell the shroud and fan set up.

06-30-2012, 09:52 PM	#48 (permalink)
LafitteZ Track Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: lafitte, la Posts: 698 Drives: 40th anniversary Rep Power: 15	Where do I get them? That's what I want to do.

07-02-2012, 04:18 PM	#54 (permalink)
hindi1973 Base Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: unknown Posts: 177 Drives: twinturbo 370z Rep Power: 14	sam i think low should be with in 32 to 35 psi a, and high 220 to 240psi ? correct ?

07-02-2012, 06:53 PM	#57 (permalink)
LafitteZ Track Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: lafitte, la Posts: 698 Drives: 40th anniversary Rep Power: 15	Im also not saying the turbo kit is faulty. Im saying its kindve funny that alot of us where it is hot is having this problem. It happened to me the day i picked the car up last summer and its now happening again this summer. Its never happened every before this kit. What i meant by help was for one if you ever heard of this problem. So with that being said the ac pressures seem to be fine. I personally think it has to do with the heat build up between the radiator and fmic. I have a big 34 row oil cooler in there also. If its not a mechanical problem do you think it may be just an airflow problem?