First top mount single turbo 370Z

ChipsWithDips · 05-13-2011, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 98intrigue

That is the culprit to the MAF maxing out, but we are not sure why it threw a code for a bad throttle body. It would make sense that since the driver's side MAF was getting about 20% more air than the passenger side MAF, maybe the driver's side throttle body was trying to compensate and open more than then it through a code and went into limp mode? But then why after hooking it all back together about 2 hours later, it ran fine...even after probably 5 dyno pulls?

Yeah like I said, that MAF on the passenger side bend is not gonna be able to get an accurate reading. Think about it, the flow of air through a bend is not equal across the entire cross section of pipe. There's going to be a gradient of different flows throughout. The MAF only measures flow across it's hot filament which is only a specific point in that cross section. There's no way for it to get an accurate average of the entire cross sectional area.

Here's an example of how flow changes through just 30degrees of bend.

Quote:

im still wondering why not mount the MAF's before the Split to each TB!

if you did that they would be reading 2x as much flow each.

jran76 · 05-13-2011, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChipsWithDips

Yeah like I said, that MAF on the passenger side bend is not gonna be able to get an accurate reading. Think about it, the flow of air through a bend is not equal across the entire cross section of pipe. There's going to be a gradient of different flows throughout. The MAF only measures flow across it's hot filament which is only a specific point in that cross section. There's no way for it to get an accurate average of the entire cross sectional area.

Here's an example of how flow changes through just 30degrees of bend.

if you did that they would be reading 2x as much flow each.

I think you pretty much covered it. I really think the intake piping is going to have to be re-done in some way. I don't see any way around it. I honestly think something like the intercooler GTM uses on their SC kit would be the way to go. Of course, then you would have to do something different with the air filter on the turbo.... Easy for me to say....

A4RingedONE8T · 05-13-2011, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChipsWithDips

Yeah like I said, that MAF on the passenger side bend is not gonna be able to get an accurate reading. Think about it, the flow of air through a bend is not equal across the entire cross section of pipe. There's going to be a gradient of different flows throughout. The MAF only measures flow across it's hot filament which is only a specific point in that cross section. There's no way for it to get an accurate average of the entire cross sectional area.

Here's an example of how flow changes through just 30degrees of bend.

if you did that they would be reading 2x as much flow each.

Stock MAF's should be maxing out around 10-12psi, the passenger side MAF, on the radius, is NOT the problematic one. The one on the DRIVER'S side, the one on the straight piece of pipe, is the one that is maxed out. While your drawings may be true, the MAF on the radius is NOT what is causing the issue with Ryan's car. We already have a few different fixes if the upgraded MAF's do not get the car where Ryan wants it, no one needs to worry other than Ryan and myself. The injectors are also too small, they will be maxing out near if not before 500whp. Tuning with the two MAF's, as they are placed, was of no issue.

Mr.Squeeze · 05-14-2011, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A4RingedONE8T

Stock MAF's should be maxing out around 10-12psi, the passenger side MAF, on the radius, is NOT the problematic one. The one on the DRIVER'S side, the one on the straight piece of pipe, is the one that is maxed out. While your drawings may be true, the MAF on the radius is NOT what is causing the issue with Ryan's car. We already have a few different fixes if the upgraded MAF's do not get the car where Ryan wants it, no one needs to worry other than Ryan and myself. The injectors are also too small, they will be maxing out near if not before 500whp. Tuning with the two MAF's, as they are placed, was of no issue.

The HPX MAF's should work they wont peg. I am curious as to want kind of
injector pulse you guys had with the 600cc?

370ZDreamer · 05-18-2011, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChipsWithDips

Yeah like I said, that MAF on the passenger side bend is not gonna be able to get an accurate reading. Think about it, the flow of air through a bend is not equal across the entire cross section of pipe. There's going to be a gradient of different flows throughout. The MAF only measures flow across it's hot filament which is only a specific point in that cross section. There's no way for it to get an accurate average of the entire cross sectional area.

Here's an example of how flow changes through just 30degrees of bend.

if you did that they would be reading 2x as much flow each.

How does Nissan handle the flow from 2 different MAF sensors to begin with? Are there 2 different airflow curves for each MAF?

I am used to tuning Ford and GM cars with a single MAF, but when you change the MAF size or location on either of those applications you just build a new airflow curve for the calibration.

Couldnt you do that with 2 maf's in 1 pipe or is it just one table even though theres 2 MAF's?

ChipsWithDips · 05-18-2011, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370ZDreamer

How does Nissan handle the flow from 2 different MAF sensors to begin with? Are there 2 different airflow curves for each MAF?

I am used to tuning Ford and GM cars with a single MAF, but when you change the MAF size or location on either of those applications you just build a new airflow curve for the calibration.

Couldnt you do that with 2 maf's in 1 pipe or is it just one table even though theres 2 MAF's?

The problem is the MAFs would max out their voltage much earlier. Tuning the MAF tables in the ECU just changes how much airflow the ECU interprets the MAF voltage levels as. Doesn't help if you're maxing out the voltage.

Nixlimited · 05-18-2011, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370ZDreamer

How does Nissan handle the flow from 2 different MAF sensors to begin with? Are there 2 different airflow curves for each MAF?

I am used to tuning Ford and GM cars with a single MAF, but when you change the MAF size or location on either of those applications you just build a new airflow curve for the calibration.

Couldnt you do that with 2 maf's in 1 pipe or is it just one table even though theres 2 MAF's?

Edit: see post below.

I hate MAFs altogether. Give me MAP metering any day!

As someone else pointed out, 2 MAFs in 1 pipe wouldn't work well because they are sized to handle half the airflow and would max out. Even though you can recalibrate them, it would still be a mess.

Jamaica · 05-12-2011, 11:49 PM

Looks good man.

ClemsonWill · 05-13-2011, 08:02 AM

Looks great! Definitely one of my favorite Zs on the forum! Can't wait to see more pictures and dyno results.

Kastley85891 · 05-13-2011, 09:35 PM

A one off build, to get as far as it did first shot is impressive... looking forward to the fully finished and tweaked up version. Dam to get this far in this time is amazing really... Good work

RCZ · 05-14-2011, 12:01 AM

Ryan, happy to help buddy. I think Making that kind of power at a low psi speaks volumes about the efficiency of the system. Get the bugs worked out and that thing will make some insane power.

I have an idea bout something you can do, I'll shoot you a message tomorrow.

Kingbaby · 05-14-2011, 02:22 AM

Wow...

Great numbers at insanely low psi!

98intrigue · 05-14-2011, 03:33 PM

The car is having some issues with oil temps and coolant temps. Even with a 25 row Setrab oil cooler, oil temps are 240-250 with shifting at 3k rpms and not boosting at all. I'm dropping the car off tomorrow and Shawn will see it Monday. He's going to see if he can mount the oil cooler in another location.

Today, my coolant was one dot away from the far right. I'm going to bleed the system and top off the coolant...hopefully, that will help. This seemed to be a common thing with 350Zs once the coolant system was opened up.

98intrigue · 05-14-2011, 03:37 PM

I forgot to mention, I took the car out for an hour drive last night... my first time really getting to boost the car...boosted quite a bit...put a smile on my face quite a bit

Isamu · 05-14-2011, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 98intrigue

I forgot to mention, I took the car out for an hour drive last night... my first time really getting to boost the car...boosted quite a bit...put a smile on my face quite a bit

tell me more?

05-13-2011, 08:02 AM	#9 (permalink)
ClemsonWill A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Charleston, SC Posts: 12,045 Drives: a Civic VP! Rep Power: 446	Looks great! Definitely one of my favorite Zs on the forum! Can't wait to see more pictures and dyno results. __________________ Slightly modded

05-13-2011, 09:35 PM	#10 (permalink)
Kastley85891 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: ATX 370 - Sold Posts: 1,149 Drives: 2003 Wagon Rep Power: 19	A one off build, to get as far as it did first shot is impressive... looking forward to the fully finished and tweaked up version. Dam to get this far in this time is amazing really... Good work __________________ Boosted V8 hunter 2850 lbs and 375WHP

05-14-2011, 03:33 PM	#13 (permalink)
98intrigue A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Clearwater, FL Age: 40 Posts: 4,855 Drives: 2014 Viper Rep Power: 431	The car is having some issues with oil temps and coolant temps. Even with a 25 row Setrab oil cooler, oil temps are 240-250 with shifting at 3k rpms and not boosting at all. I'm dropping the car off tomorrow and Shawn will see it Monday. He's going to see if he can mount the oil cooler in another location. Today, my coolant was one dot away from the far right. I'm going to bleed the system and top off the coolant...hopefully, that will help. This seemed to be a common thing with 350Zs once the coolant system was opened up. __________________ Ryan - 2014 Stryker Green Viper Gone - a few Vipers and a couple turbo VQs

05-14-2011, 03:37 PM	#14 (permalink)
98intrigue A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Clearwater, FL Age: 40 Posts: 4,855 Drives: 2014 Viper Rep Power: 431	I forgot to mention, I took the car out for an hour drive last night... my first time really getting to boost the car...boosted quite a bit...put a smile on my face quite a bit __________________ Ryan - 2014 Stryker Green Viper Gone - a few Vipers and a couple turbo VQs

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05-12-2011, 11:49 PM	#8 (permalink)
Jamaica A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: SoCal Posts: 15,362 Drives: Under boost Rep Power: 75	Looks good man.

05-14-2011, 12:01 AM	#11 (permalink)
RCZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 6,403 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 1120	Ryan, happy to help buddy. I think Making that kind of power at a low psi speaks volumes about the efficiency of the system. Get the bugs worked out and that thing will make some insane power. I have an idea bout something you can do, I'll shoot you a message tomorrow.

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