Turbo oil drain problems w/AAM kit

zguynate · 09-25-2017, 10:02 PM

Hey guys, Im having issues with my drivers side turbo burning oil through the exhaust side, and also pooling oil in the charge pipes. I have the AAM turbo kit.

If I drive the car without hitting boost I have no issues at all, but once I give it some throttle and hit boost, it will start smoking. Then I found a lot of oil in the charge piping. My first thought was the oil wasn't being drained properly. I increased the size of the line from a -8 to a -10 and I'm still having the issue. Im starting to think that Im going to have to get a scavenge pump to resolve my issue.

Do you guys have any input? The PCV setup from AAM is not installed therefor oil isn't coming into the turbo from the valve cover. The only connection to oil is through the turbo itself. There is absolutely no shaft play either. Im having no issues at all with the passenger side. Its dry as a bone. The drivers side line almost levels out where it rests on the front subframe, which to me seems to be an issue, but there is absolutely no way to route the line to where it doesn't do that. Also, I was always under the impression that you want your turbo oil drain above the level of oil in the pan, which I havent seen any twin turbo Z's that do that. I need yalls help. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

jwick · 09-25-2017, 10:15 PM

A local guy here had to install an Exa pump to get oil to drain with his AAM kit but I think his problem was during idle when there wasn't enough turbo spin to force the oil back into the pan.

Jinxx · 09-26-2017, 12:01 AM

I read somewhere that some one used restrictors to slow down the oil going to the turbo ... but I would be carful doing that

JSur · 09-26-2017, 07:05 AM

Borgwarner EFR’s ??

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zguynate · 09-26-2017, 08:35 AM

I did some research about a restrictor but apparently the EFR turbo has a built in restrictor according to Borg Warner.

JSur, yep they are the EFR turbos.

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Jayhovah · 09-26-2017, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragonbreath

I did some research about a restrictor but apparently the EFR turbo has a built in restrictor according to Borg Warner.

JSur, yep they are the EFR turbos.

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Any noticeable difference in return line length, slack, or routing complexity between pass and drivers side? Any difference in turbo mounting height or drain port orientation?

What size are the feed lines?

I am certain you already know this, but turbo gravity drains can be finicky so even a small adjustment could completely alleviate the problem.

edit: I just reread your post and you mention that the drain line levels out a little on the drivers side... you might consider taking some pics and sending to AAM to see if they have any ideas to adjust the routing? My drain lines also have very little downward slope, but seem to be OK.... even adjusting the drain so that you can get a few extra degrees of slope may solve it.

Have you gotten in touch with AAM and/or Borg Warner? Could be the result of a defect or failure as well.

zguynate · 09-26-2017, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayhovah

Any noticeable difference in return line length, slack, or routing complexity between pass and drivers side? Any difference in turbo mounting height or drain port orientation?

What size are the feed lines?

I am certain you already know this, but turbo gravity drains can be finicky so even a small adjustment could completely alleviate the problem.

edit: I just reread your post and you mention that the drain line levels out a little on the drivers side... you might consider taking some pics and sending to AAM to see if they have any ideas to adjust the routing? My drain lines also have very little downward slope, but seem to be OK.... even adjusting the drain so that you can get a few extra degrees of slope may solve it.

Have you gotten in touch with AAM and/or Borg Warner? Could be the result of a defect or failure as well.

The drivers side turbo uses a 45 degree fitting for the oil drain, and due to the starter has to be angled somewhat away from the motor. So the line has to curve back to the motor and then somewhat levels out. I've tried to see if I could change the routing of the line to make it better but due to the close proximity of the oil pan to the subframe, the line will always rest on the subframe. It's driving me crazy.

I've done a compression test and all of my compression rates are very good. I'm going to see if I can borrow a leak down tester also to make sure. When I got tuned I was having an issue with the dipstick blowing out... that's why I removed the AAM pcv setup. I haven't had any issues since I removed them. Before I could drive the car and when I parked it and turned it off, I could hear burbling from the motor. When I pulled the dipstick I would hear a rush of air. That has been alleviated but I'm still going to see if for some reason I'm getting leakage through the cylinders causing the line not to drain properly. I'm pretty certain I don't have any issues... but I'm unsure what to do next. I would like to avoid having to do a scavenge pump because I like simplicity.

I did talk to AAM and they said that according to Borg Warner, it's almost impossible for the turbo seals to go bad due to the design. Something about the seals being similar to a piston ring. They suggested that I clean it out and try it again. That didn't work for me obviously lol.

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Jayhovah · 09-26-2017, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragonbreath

The drivers side turbo uses a 45 degree fitting for the oil drain, and due to the starter has to be angled somewhat away from the motor. So the line has to curve back to the motor and then somewhat levels out. I've tried to see if I could change the routing of the line to make it better but due to the close proximity of the oil pan to the subframe, the line will always rest on the subframe. It's driving me crazy.

I've done a compression test and all of my compression rates are very good. I'm going to see if I can borrow a leak down tester also to make sure. When I got tuned I was having an issue with the dipstick blowing out... that's why I removed the AAM pcv setup. I haven't had any issues since I removed them. Before I could drive the car and when I parked it and turned it off, I could hear burbling from the motor. When I pulled the dipstick I would hear a rush of air. That has been alleviated but I'm still going to see if for some reason I'm getting leakage through the cylinders causing the line not to drain properly. I'm pretty certain I don't have any issues... but I'm unsure what to do next. I would like to avoid having to do a scavenge pump because I like simplicity.

I did talk to AAM and they said that according to Borg Warner, it's almost impossible for the turbo seals to go bad due to the design. Something about the seals being similar to a piston ring. They suggested that I clean it out and try it again. That didn't work for me obviously lol.

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That is kind of scary with the crank case being pressurized and blowing the dip stick out. I'll bet that was quite a surprise the first time!!! Did it just pop out or did it like fire across the room? I feel like that would give me a pretty fierce case of the giggles.

Since you are finding oil in the charge pipe and don't have PCV plumbed, I agree its 100% coming from the turbo, I wouldn't worry about the motor at all. Maybe you have a defect or blockage in the return line plumbing?

One test I can think of is to swap the pass/drivers side turbos... but it would probably be a ton of work... it would rule out a turbo defect though.

You mentioned the problem comes with throttle. Strictly with throttle? Or with RPM? Happens regardless of whether the oil is cold or hot? Wondering if it is dependent on oil pressure.

What size is the return line? Looks like some setups use some relatively small AN lines.... on my kit the returns are some pretty fat hoses which are almost like reservoirs in and of themselves.

rovert · 09-26-2017, 05:52 PM

If the crankcase is vented correctly you would seem to have a problem with excessive blow by.
Personally I would take a long hard look at how your crank case ventilation is setup.
You mention you dont have the AAM setup connected, what exactly is your setup.
Post some Pics.

zguynate · 09-27-2017, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayhovah

That is kind of scary with the crank case being pressurized and blowing the dip stick out. I'll bet that was quite a surprise the first time!!! Did it just pop out or did it like fire across the room? I feel like that would give me a pretty fierce case of the giggles.

Since you are finding oil in the charge pipe and don't have PCV plumbed, I agree its 100% coming from the turbo, I wouldn't worry about the motor at all. Maybe you have a defect or blockage in the return line plumbing?

One test I can think of is to swap the pass/drivers side turbos... but it would probably be a ton of work... it would rule out a turbo defect though.

You mentioned the problem comes with throttle. Strictly with throttle? Or with RPM? Happens regardless of whether the oil is cold or hot? Wondering if it is dependent on oil pressure.

What size is the return line? Looks like some setups use some relatively small AN lines.... on my kit the returns are some pretty fat hoses which are almost like reservoirs in and of themselves.

I'm not sure how the oil dipstick thing worked lol. Jon at Z1 tuned it and told me about it. My car had oil all over it lol, but they cleaned it pretty well for me.

As long as I don't boost I don't have any issues. I don't know about the cold or hot thing because I wait until my oil temps are at a good operating temp before I do any hard driving.

The return line on that side is -10.

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zguynate · 09-27-2017, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rovert

If the crankcase is vented correctly you would seem to have a problem with excessive blow by.
Personally I would take a long hard look at how your crank case ventilation is setup.
You mention you dont have the AAM setup connected, what exactly is your setup.
Post some Pics.

AAMs PCV setup had a gold check valve between the valve cover vent and the intake before the turbo. The issue is when the check valve was there I would get some strange issues when it came to pressures inside the crankcase. So I deleted them and vented the valve cover to the atmosphere. Unfortunately I can't take a picture of my setup because I have the motor back out.

I called AAM and they think I have positive crankcase pressure as well. They gave me a procedure to do to test that out but since my car isn't running I can't do that. So what I'm going to do is do a leak down test to see if I have unacceptable leakage. I don't suspect that though because my compression numbers are actually really good, but I'm going to test it just to rule that out. I'll let you guys know what I figure out. I don't plan on having the engine out very long.

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Irishrogue · 09-27-2017, 08:48 PM

I had a simular problem with oil backing up in my passenger side turbo, solved it by taking the engine back out and reclocking it so the drain port is at a higher degree downward angle. If the two ports are too close to level it won't flow through and back up into the turbo.

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rovert · 09-28-2017, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragonbreath

I called AAM and they think I have positive crankcase pressure as well. They gave me a procedure to do to test that out but since my car isn't running I can't do that. So what I'm going to do is do a leak down test to see if I have unacceptable leakage. I don't suspect that though because my compression numbers are actually really good, but I'm going to test it just to rule that out. I'll let you guys know what I figure out. I don't plan on having the engine out very long.

Once again you really need to be sure of your pcv setup.
Boost pressure into the crankcase will also create this scenario.
The dipstick incident is the key to whats going on.
One can imagine with that much pressure, an oil return line has zero chance of functioning properly, regardless of its size. Its a wonder both Turbo's aren't crying oil.
Sounds like your onto it now though, good luck with it Mate.

URBiN~HURMiT · 11-19-2018, 04:42 PM

I have the same problem 'Smoking Turbo's' with the AAM kit BW 71/63's.
Brand new built motor done right at MA-Motorsports.

Had to remove my car from AAM after 2 years - seems they were using my car as a Test Mule - they blew the (built) motor on the Dyno after 3 months of testing - then tried to get away with it.

The car is now at MA-Motorsports and the rebuild / build is almost done.
The AAM turbo kit smokes like a bandit due to poor engineering regarding the placement of the turbos too low and too close to the oil pan to drain properly.

Fast Intentions kit doesn't have this issue.
Looks like I'll be having to go the Scavenge Pump route to solve yet another AAM induced issue.

Should have gone with FI .... hope this helps the 'new guys / gals' considering going boosted....

MA-Motorsports just installed an RB-Racing Scavenge Pump ... helical gears and professional racing grade construction and quality.
Will comment once I take delivery of the car and test drive it ... Not expecting any disappointing surprises - MA-Motorsports has been top drawer all the way.

Spooler · 11-19-2018, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by URBiN~HURMiT

I have the same problem 'Smoking Turbo's' with the AAM kit BW 71/63's.
Brand new built motor done right at MA-Motorsports.

Had to remove my car from AAM after 2 years - seems they were using my car as a Test Mule - they blew the (built) motor on the Dyno after 3 months of testing - then tried to get away with it.

The car is now at MA-Motorsports and the rebuild / build is almost done.
The AAM turbo kit smokes like a bandit due to poor engineering regarding the placement of the turbos too low and too close to the oil pan to drain properly.

Fast Intentions kit doesn't have this issue.
Looks like I'll be having to go the Scavenge Pump route to solve yet another AAM induced issue.

Should have gone with FI .... hope this helps the 'new guys / gals' considering going boosted....

WOW, I knew someone had an AAM kit car in the shop. Didn't know it was yours. Good luck with it.

09-25-2017, 10:02 PM	#1 (permalink)
zguynate A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Strangeland Posts: 1,054 Drives: 09 370z Rep Power: 74	Turbo oil drain problems w/AAM kit Hey guys, Im having issues with my drivers side turbo burning oil through the exhaust side, and also pooling oil in the charge pipes. I have the AAM turbo kit. If I drive the car without hitting boost I have no issues at all, but once I give it some throttle and hit boost, it will start smoking. Then I found a lot of oil in the charge piping. My first thought was the oil wasn't being drained properly. I increased the size of the line from a -8 to a -10 and I'm still having the issue. Im starting to think that Im going to have to get a scavenge pump to resolve my issue. Do you guys have any input? The PCV setup from AAM is not installed therefor oil isn't coming into the turbo from the valve cover. The only connection to oil is through the turbo itself. There is absolutely no shaft play either. Im having no issues at all with the passenger side. Its dry as a bone. The drivers side line almost levels out where it rests on the front subframe, which to me seems to be an issue, but there is absolutely no way to route the line to where it doesn't do that. Also, I was always under the impression that you want your turbo oil drain above the level of oil in the pan, which I havent seen any twin turbo Z's that do that. I need yalls help. Any advice is greatly appreciated. __________________ 2009 370z touring w/sports package

09-25-2017, 10:15 PM	#2 (permalink)
jwick A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Houston Posts: 14,532 Drives: '10 G37 6MT Rep Power: 2465057	A local guy here had to install an Exa pump to get oil to drain with his AAM kit but I think his problem was during idle when there wasn't enough turbo spin to force the oil back into the pan. __________________ '10 G37T 6MT Graphite/Graphite - BP - G37T Build

09-26-2017, 08:35 AM	#5 (permalink)
zguynate A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Strangeland Posts: 1,054 Drives: 09 370z Rep Power: 74	I did some research about a restrictor but apparently the EFR turbo has a built in restrictor according to Borg Warner. JSur, yep they are the EFR turbos. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ 2009 370z touring w/sports package

09-26-2017, 05:52 PM	#9 (permalink)
rovert Base Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Australia Posts: 64 Drives: 08 Skyline 370GT Rep Power: 10	If the crankcase is vented correctly you would seem to have a problem with excessive blow by. Personally I would take a long hard look at how your crank case ventilation is setup. You mention you dont have the AAM setup connected, what exactly is your setup. Post some Pics. __________________ 08 Skyline 370GT SP Coupe 5AT: Diy TT

09-27-2017, 08:48 PM	#12 (permalink)
Irishrogue Base Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 32 Drives: 09 NISMO 370Z Rep Power: 16	I had a simular problem with oil backing up in my passenger side turbo, solved it by taking the engine back out and reclocking it so the drain port is at a higher degree downward angle. If the two ports are too close to level it won't flow through and back up into the turbo. Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk 370Zsteve likes this.

09-26-2017, 12:01 AM	#3 (permalink)
Jinxx Track Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: South Carolina Posts: 699 Drives: 2017 nismo 370z Rep Power: 3376	I read somewhere that some one used restrictors to slow down the oil going to the turbo ... but I would be carful doing that

09-26-2017, 07:05 AM	#4 (permalink)
JSur Base Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Orlando Posts: 84 Drives: 2011 370z TT Rep Power: 10	Borgwarner EFR’s ?? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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