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Nissan 370Z Forum (http://www.the370z.com/)
-   Forced Induction (http://www.the370z.com/forced-induction/)
-   -   Topgunz - air to air upgrade (http://www.the370z.com/forced-induction/110925-topgunz-air-air-upgrade.html)

TopgunZ 02-10-2017 02:53 PM
So was it this injector that was causing the tuning issue? Were they able to take it up to 7500? What did you make?

nic370 02-10-2017 02:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopgunZ (Post 3614272)
So was it this injector that was causing the tuning issue? Were they able to take it up to 7500? What did you make?
I need to have a chat tomorrow and see where we're at
He got as far as 475bhp and was detecting knock still and car was still pulling timming

So I'm going to get it back and make sure nothing is touching/vibrating
Swap out the leaky o rings and do some logging

I spoke with him about de sensitisation of the knock sensor He isn't keen but will tune the car using det cans and de sensitised knock sensor if I wish .
But wants the few niggles sorted first

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TopgunZ 02-10-2017 03:05 PM
Maybe it was a bad tank of fuel and the octane is just really low. :confused:

nic370 02-10-2017 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopgunZ (Post 3614281)
Maybe it was a bad tank of fuel and the octane is just really low. :confused:
Possibly it had been sat for weeks with Very little fuel in it
I did however stick 50 litres of fresh she'll v power 99 Ron here in uk in when it went for mapping

I'll report back in a few days when I get chance to get the niggles sorted and run some fresh fuel threw her

He did say it was making more boost tho 10/11 psi
That's the confusing bit for me as you thought I'd see about 8 right ?

I do think my mapper is being super super cautious
I'll print up my dyno sheet tomorrow see what you guys think

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TopgunZ 02-10-2017 03:18 PM
Did he take the intercooler out of the manifold? If that is in there it will plug it up and make more backpressure/boost.

nic370 02-10-2017 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopgunZ (Post 3614285)
Did he take the intercooler out of the manifold? If that is in there it will plug it up and make more backpressure/boost.
Yeah we took that out
And I'm running invidia Gemini with de cats

He asked me if I'd changed the pulleys

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mikey1600 02-10-2017 10:09 PM
Hey mate, good to see a fellow Aussie doing it!

were you already custom tuned before installing the A2A? if so that's a pretty damn good increase to be honest.

I'm looking to do the same except adding E85 + Si trim upgrade on the charger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimiser (Post 3611658)
Well finally after months of waiting for and stuffing around with parts from the US and lots of $$$ my shop has finally completed my A to A upgrade! :driving:
Some things to note were that the Stillen fuel pump ran out of pressure when engine was at 5500RPM and was replaced with a 340LPH pump. I've ended up using a 3.00" improved traction SC pulley, stock jack shaft pulley and a 2.80"improved traction serp pulley, giving me 10PSI. I replaced both the SC and serp belts and used the extra idler pulley (with special spacer), that was supplied to me by the most helpful and friendly "TBatt". This is to try and stop any belt slippage on serp side. I am also using the Tial BPV.
The Stillen fuel injectors did not need replacing and I'm using BP "Ultimate" 98 RON fuel which is the best you can get here in Australia. The injectors didn't max out and are fine with my current tune. I'm also Uprev tuned and using the stock MAF's, so no SD tuning on this. The dyno is a "Dynapack chassis dyno which are popular in Japan. They are the "static" ones where your (driven) wheels are removed and connected to a unit that spins a hydraulic pump/motor. The wobbles on the dyno graph's lines are due to the Dynapack's sensor which fluctuates a bit in hotter weather (it's middle of summer here down under) and is therefore not at all to do with fluctuations with the engine, so ignore them. The tune is very stable and smooth and the engine idles perfectly.
Overall I was hoping to get a bit more power than this, but around 450 (safe) WHP and about 352 wheel torque, it's still great and I'm happy. I'm also glad it's all over and I have my car back finally! You can see the before (Standard Stillen setup) and after (TopGunz A to A upgrade) results on the dyno charts.

shadow85 02-11-2017 01:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey1600 (Post 3614381)
Hey mate, good to see a fellow Aussie doing it!

were you already custom tuned before installing the A2A? if so that's a pretty damn good increase to be honest.

I'm looking to do the same except adding E85 + Si trim upgrade on the charger
How much extra power would the Si trim upgrade net you?

ChaseZ 02-11-2017 04:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow85 (Post 3614421)
How much extra power would the Si trim upgrade net you?
Si adds about 2-3psi, in theory should be extra 40-60whp. That's not contemplating the e85 don't know what that would add by itself.

MoulaZ 02-11-2017 04:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaseZ (Post 3614425)
Si adds about 2-3psi, in theory should be extra 40-60whp. That's not contemplating the e85 don't know what that would add by itself.
Well since we now have a reasonable idea of 10 psi + A2A kit nets about 320rwkw, and there is a guy on the original 6 psi kit with e85 making a hair past 300rwkw... I'm going to stab for fun and say 12 psi + e85 + A2A + good tune will hit ~360rwkw (~480rwhp).

In a couple of weeks, I'll have my own results of 10 psi + A2A as well. :tup:

shadow85 02-11-2017 07:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoulaZ (Post 3614427)
Well since we now have a reasonable idea of 10 psi + A2A kit nets about 320rwkw, and there is a guy on the original 6 psi kit with e85 making a hair past 300rwkw... I'm going to stab for fun and say 12 psi + e85 + A2A + good tune will hit ~360rwkw (~480rwhp).

In a couple of weeks, I'll have my own results of 10 psi + A2A as well. :tup:
Do you think I will be able to hit 360 rwkw with the AAM TT Kit on 10psi? No e85

TopgunZ 02-11-2017 08:09 AM
Stillenz84 made 556whp with the above.
Frandy made 540whp with stillen fuel components, pump gas plus meth.
Sudip made 515whp. I just posted his dyno a few pages back. It's not hard to get past 500.

TopgunZ 02-11-2017 08:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaseZ (Post 3614425)
Si adds about 2-3psi, in theory should be extra 40-60whp. That's not contemplating the e85 don't know what that would add by itself.
It won't get you 50whp. It flows 1150cfm vs 1050 so around 10% more. It will be closer to 2 psi which will be around 30-35whp.

jwick 02-11-2017 09:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow85 (Post 3614438)
Do you think I will be able to hit 360 rwkw with the AAM TT Kit on 10psi? No e85

Wrong thread. This thread is about Guns A2A kit.

ChaseZ 02-11-2017 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopgunZ (Post 3614447)
It won't get you 50whp. It flows 1150cfm vs 1050 so around 10% more. It will be closer to 2 psi which will be around 30-35whp.
Makes sense. I was just using the typical average of 20 per psi
Obviously you have more specific information in this case. Good to know, helps me get an idea of what to expect on mine too :tup:

MoulaZ 02-11-2017 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopgunZ (Post 3614444)
Stillenz84 made 556whp with the above.
Frandy made 540whp with stillen fuel components, pump gas plus meth.
Sudip made 515whp. I just posted his dyno a few pages back. It's not hard to get past 500.
I don't disagree mate, I'm only accounting for the bizarre fact US Dynos & Aussie Dynos have never in their history ever read the same. When I got it back after the first Tune it netted just 265rwkw, which is 355whp. Got a video of a pull I did on a hot night. Before you comment, watch it.

I'm curious, in 'your' eyes, what does this look/seem like?

https://youtu.be/rL1vkYbfEdw

Kzonts 02-11-2017 05:25 PM
Stopping at 6K in 4th gear is not a complete run. Right?

MoulaZ 02-11-2017 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kzonts (Post 3614586)
Stopping at 6K in 4th gear is not a complete run. Right?
Yeah I backed off.

Kzonts 02-11-2017 07:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoulaZ (Post 3614589)
Yeah I backed off.
Ignore my stupidity. I though the vid was done on the dyno... :icon17:

Optimiser 02-11-2017 09:03 PM
[QUOTE=MoulaZ;3614575]I don't disagree mate, I'm only accounting for the bizarre fact US Dynos & Aussie Dynos have never in their history ever read the same. When I got it back after the first Tune it netted just 265rwkw, which is 355whp. Got a video of a pull I did on a hot night. Before you comment, watch it.

I'm curious about this too. If the Dyno readings were similar is the US to AUS, shouldn't I be closer to 500WHP with my A to A setup? If not what is holding me back from being closer to 500WHP as I thought my setup now is very similar to some of the US ones that are making around 500WHP? Mine showing about 450WHP on a "Dynapack" dyno. :icon14:

Optimiser 02-11-2017 09:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey1600 (Post 3614381)
Hey mate, good to see a fellow Aussie doing it!

were you already custom tuned before installing the A2A? if so that's a pretty damn good increase to be honest.

I'm looking to do the same except adding E85 + Si trim upgrade on the charger
Yes I was previously on a "safe" and conservative Uprev tune with the stock Stillen setup.

TopgunZ 02-11-2017 10:09 PM
I was unaware Aussie dynos read low. Sounds like you are all getting mustang dyno numbers. With that, would a mustang dyno show another 15% drop there?

Easiest way to figure out the recalc is to take your stock car that we know is 332bhp. What does a fully stock vq37vhr make there?

Optimiser 02-11-2017 11:20 PM
6 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopgunZ (Post 3614648)
I was unaware Aussie dynos read low. Sounds like you are all getting mustang dyno numbers. With that, would a mustang dyno show another 15% drop there?

Easiest way to figure out the recalc is to take your stock car that we know is 332bhp. What does a fully stock vq37vhr make there?
Here are all my Dyno results from stock to A to A, using same shop, tuner and dyno and all done in the warmer months here on 98RON fuel.

On this dyno my stock Z was making 316WHP, so based on a 15% drive train loss (MT), this would be 363BHP, not 332BHP, (Nissan 370Z stock), and our Zed's are quoted by Nissan as the same BHP here as in the US at 332BHP.
Mine now makes/measures 449WHP, a 133WHP gain, using this calculator:

Horsepower to Kilowatt (hp to kW) and kW to hp (Kilowatts to Metric Horse powers) Online Conversion Calculator - Converter / Chart / Table

Does this mean I'm therefore making less than 450WHP in reality?

shadow85 02-12-2017 03:50 AM
[QUOTE=Optimiser;3614639]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoulaZ (Post 3614575)
I don't disagree mate, I'm only accounting for the bizarre fact US Dynos & Aussie Dynos have never in their history ever read the same. When I got it back after the first Tune it netted just 265rwkw, which is 355whp. Got a video of a pull I did on a hot night. Before you comment, watch it.

I'm curious about this too. If the Dyno readings were similar is the US to AUS, shouldn't I be closer to 500WHP with my A to A setup? If not what is holding me back from being closer to 500WHP as I thought my setup now is very similar to some of the US ones that are making around 500WHP? Mine showing about 450WHP on a "Dynapack" dyno. :icon14:
A member on Zclub.com.au told me that in Australia our Motor Ocatane (MO) rating is much lower than the MO in the states, ontop of that our weather and other factors is why the Aussies cannot reach the same numbers as the guys in the states.

TopgunZ 02-12-2017 08:11 AM
Well if you are running our equivalent of 87 octane then lower numbers will definitely ocurre.

Just ask the tuners how much timing is in it. I was at 25* on E. Which would be like 10 or lower on Crap gas which would leave a TON of power on the table.

MoulaZ 02-12-2017 11:42 AM
Definitely not an octane issue. We use the RON metric, where our 98 is equivalent to the 93 in the AKI metric used in the US. 2 seconds googling that gives you the information.

On the subject of timing though. When mine did make that initial 265rwkw (355rwhp), tuner said he had a very hard time going past 13* before it would start pinging horribly, I attribute it to being a very hot day (something like 37c/98f at the back of the shop), and the W2A being badly heatsoaked at the end of some 20+ dyno runs and the tuner refusing to listen to me to let it cool down. Very interesting you were at 25* with E85... how much are you on 93?

nic370 02-12-2017 05:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoulaZ (Post 3614785)
Definitely not an octane issue. We use the RON metric, where our 98 is equivalent to the 93 in the AKI metric used in the US. 2 seconds googling that gives you the information.

On the subject of timing though. When mine did make that initial 265rwkw (355rwhp), tuner said he had a very hard time going past 13* before it would start pinging horribly, I attribute it to being a very hot day (something like 37c/98f at the back of the shop), and the W2A being badly heatsoaked at the end of some 20+ dyno runs and the tuner refusing to listen to me to let it cool down. Very interesting you were at 25* with E85... how much are you on 93?
My w2a set up didn't drop below 40 degrees c here in uk no matter how cold it was

Now with a2a my Temps are sat at around 7 degrees c above abient it's amazing
I can get out after a hard drive and stick my hand on the charge pipe and manifold and they are cold
It is like 3 degrees here at the moment but still super impressed :bowrofl:

dboi941 02-13-2017 12:18 PM
1 Attachment(s)
I finally got mine tuned. I will add the Dyno sheet and video of a pull.

Its a 2016 370z Nismo with the Stillen SC, Topgunz A2A kit and 9psi Stillen pulley.

Only other mod done was Motordyne test pipes.

Problem I had was I was running out on injector at I think he said 7k rpm.
So will be replacing them real soon.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/cRGn9Zy__YE

TopgunZ 02-13-2017 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dboi941 (Post 3615188)
I finally got mine tuned. I will add the Dyno sheet and video of a pull.

Its a 2016 270z Nismo with the Stillen SC, Topgunz A2A kit and 9psi Stillen pulley.

Only other mod done was Motordyne test pipes.

Problem I had was I was running out on injector at I think he said 7k rpm.
So will be replacing them real soon.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/cRGn9Zy__YE

Nice man. It sounds really good!! Should hit over 475whp easily after the injector upgrade. Next step is get the Si trim and make over 500 if you want.:excited:

shadow85 02-13-2017 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dboi941 (Post 3615188)

Problem I had was I was running out on injector at I think he said 7k rpm.
So will be replacing them real soon.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/cRGn9Zy__YE
What size injectors?

dboi941 02-13-2017 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow85 (Post 3615346)
What size injectors?
I was using the injectors that came will the Stillen kit, They are 600cc.
They hit 118 duty cycle at 7k rpm.

ChaseZ 02-13-2017 05:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dboi941 (Post 3615188)
Only other mod done was Motordyne test pipes.

Problem I had was I was running out on injector at I think he said 7k rpm.
So will be replacing them real soon
Rest of the exhaust is stock?

dboi941 02-13-2017 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaseZ (Post 3615410)
Rest of the exhaust is stock?
Stock nismo yes.

shadow85 02-13-2017 07:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dboi941 (Post 3615347)
I was using the injectors that came will the Stillen kit, They are 600cc.
They hit 118 duty cycle at 7k rpm.
Ahh ****. Are you on E85?

I just ordered my AAM TT kit with 600cc injectors. Will I also max out injectors if I am aiming at 450whp?

Jayhovah 02-13-2017 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow85 (Post 3615461)
Ahh ****. Are you on E85?

I just ordered my AAM TT kit with 600cc injectors. Will I also max out injectors if I am aiming at 450whp?
You'll get a little more since you don't have to spend some on the SC. I maxed my 600cc injectors at 538whp and my tuner backed me down to 520whp.

TopgunZ 02-13-2017 08:09 PM
Goes to prove though that the air to air kit is much more efficient. Nobody has maxed out the stillen injectors on the water kit with 9psi pulley. And you WAY maxed them. You should leave headroom of 85% at least. So id say these were done around 6000 safely.

Never run injectors to 100%.

Are you going with 800s or 1000s?

BOLIO 671 02-13-2017 08:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopgunZ (Post 3615476)
Goes to prove though that the air to air kit is much more efficient. Nobody has maxed out the stillen injectors on the water kit with 9psi pulley. And you WAY maxed them. You should leave headroom of 85% at least. So id say these were done around 6000 safely.

Never run injectors to 100%.

Are you going with 800s or 1000s?
This is very true....which is the reason why I had to upgrade my fuel system the Stillen Injectors were hitting 95% Duty Cycle up top for me past 7K RPM.

git@no 02-14-2017 12:24 AM
I agree

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Optimiser 02-14-2017 12:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dboi941 (Post 3615188)
I finally got mine tuned. I will add the Dyno sheet and video of a pull.

Its a 2016 270z Nismo with the Stillen SC, Topgunz A2A kit and 9psi Stillen pulley.

Only other mod done was Motordyne test pipes.

Problem I had was I was running out on injector at I think he said 7k rpm.
So will be replacing them real soon.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/cRGn9Zy__YE
Why would you have more power than me but less torque and run out of injectors (stock Stillen ones) when I didn't? Very interesting.

dboi941 02-14-2017 07:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow85 (Post 3615461)
Ahh ****. Are you on E85?

I just ordered my AAM TT kit with 600cc injectors. Will I also max out injectors if I am aiming at 450whp?
No I am on 93, E85 will be later down the road.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopgunZ (Post 3615476)
Goes to prove though that the air to air kit is much more efficient. Nobody has maxed out the stillen injectors on the water kit with 9psi pulley. And you WAY maxed them. You should leave headroom of 85% at least. So id say these were done around 6000 safely.

Never run injectors to 100%.

Are you going with 800s or 1000s?
Yes I know it is parked in the garage again lol. I will be going with 1000's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimiser (Post 3615556)
Why would you have more power than me but less torque and run out of injectors (stock Stillen ones) when I didn't? Very interesting.
This I can't say or understand to be honest. I understand zero about tuning. EDIT: I have the upgraded Stillen 9psi pulley maybe this? not sure. Also before the a2a kit and pulley my tq and hp was almost the same thats on uprav after the a2a and pulley I changed to Ecutek. I do not know how much of a difference this makes or any just giving my information.


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