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-   -   Topgunz - air to air upgrade (http://www.the370z.com/forced-induction/110925-topgunz-air-air-upgrade.html)

TopgunZ 02-01-2016 10:20 AM

Topgunz - air to air upgrade
 
1 Attachment(s)
As many of you know, there is demand for a good solution to the water to air design of the Stillen kit. These kits will bring in more power with much better responsiveness and will keep your motor alive no matter how much power you throw at it. The kits make around 475whp on 91 octane, 495whp on 93 and over 550whp on E85 if you run 11psi. This can be achieved by upgrading to the Si impeller and utilizing the 9psi stillen pulley or a 3.0 supercharger pulley.

I do not think I need to go into the benefits of going Air to Air since anyone reading this will know just how terrible the water system works. Anything over 9psi is playing with fire. The Air to Air is coming in just above ambient on my setup.



Kit will include:
-New Air filter - Eliminating stillen Y intake and small dual filter design
-Piping from Supercharger to intercooler
-Bypass Valve Mount adapter
-Treadstone Intercooler rated for 720HP
-Intercooler mounting brackets
-All cold side piping and intakes - 2.75" Custom Y pipe with MAF housings - Blow through design will allow computer to see temps unlike current design
-Manifold Block off plate (with gasket maker)
-All silicone couplers and T-bolts
-Vacuum hose
-Installation instructions

Tial Upgrade
- Tial QRJ (pick your color)
- Tial Adapter pipe with flange welded in
- Tial QRJ Intake Flange
- Tial QRJ Exhaust Flange
- 2 x Couplers
- 2 x T bolt Clamps

Possible Stage 2 kit:
Upgrade to V1 or V2 Ti/Si head unit - Capable of more power than the V3. Will come with all necessary parts to upgrade to this unit.

This kits cost is $1475 shipped. with FREE SHIPPING!!
With the Tial upgrade it is $1750. This is a MUST have in my opinion unless you already have a bypass valve that is bigger than 1" in/out.


The hardest part about installing this kit will be taking the aftercooler out of the manifold as this requires the removal and re-installation of the manifold. Other than that it is about as difficult as installing a Stillen Gen3 cold air intake.

EDIT - Can pull out aftercooler and hacksaw it off if you would prefer. No need to take manifold off and put back on.

Here are some pics of the kit installed on both a G and a Z. You can see there are different BPV options as well with this kit. I will help you with what you need.

http://www.the370z.com/members/topgu...0354608737.jpg



http://www.the370z.com/members/topgu...3-img-2266.jpg

http://www.the370z.com/members/topgu...939f2345b6.jpg

JARblue 02-01-2016 10:26 AM

Did you run this by the mods for approval? :twocents:

Chuck33079 02-01-2016 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ (Post 3402056)
As many of you know, there is an immediate demand for a good solution to the water to air design of the Stillen kit. I have made my own and it is working perfect and has put down almost 500whp on 10psi. I will be shooting for 600whp this spring.



I do not think I need to go into the benefits of going Air to Air since anyone reading this will know just how terrible the water system works. Anything over 9psi is playing with fire. There has been a recent study by "Swiss370Z" where he had intake temps coming in at 230F and his water was 203F. In other words, the intake temps are barely being cooled.


Didn't his log also show that the ecu thought that the 230 degree air was 50 something degrees at the maf? No wonder these things pop when you turn up the boost.

EVOHUNTER 02-01-2016 11:03 AM

Hey topz,

You can get the intercooler out without removing.

I pulled mine out as far I could, about 3".

then wrapped the unit with painters tape so no shavings got back into the manifold.

I used a hack saw, chopped it off and removed it.

used a magnet and vaccum to make sure there was no remaining shavings that stayed behind.

TopgunZ 02-01-2016 11:48 AM

Hacking it off is another option and a much easier one. As long as people are ok destroying that little aftercooler then it will save a lot of time and possible headaches. That manifold really does suck to take off and put on due to the lack of bolt access.

TerribleONE 02-01-2016 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue (Post 3402062)
Did you run this by the mods for approval? :twocents:

:iagree:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 3402087)
Didn't his log also show that the ecu thought that the something degrees at the maf? No wonder these things pop when you turn up the boost.

Seriously. :eek:

TopgunZ 02-01-2016 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 3402087)
Didn't his log also show that the ecu thought that the 230 degree air was 50 something degrees at the maf? No wonder these things pop when you turn up the boost.

Yeah. I wonder how much timing it advanced when it should be pulling timing like crazy!

EVOHUNTER 02-01-2016 02:38 PM

ill take a main bracket, this is to support the charger right?

TopgunZ 02-01-2016 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EVOHUNTER (Post 3402282)
ill take a main bracket, this is to support the charger right?

Yes sir. :tup:

x2o 02-01-2016 04:05 PM

Super excited for this, hope it all comes together as planned! After seeing Ivo's temp readings at the MAF vs the charge pipe... I'm a bit scared to be running the stock after-heater setup lol

I'm sure a lot of us Stillen guys would love to have this as an option !

sidenote : if it's easier to just chop out the stillen aftercooler core I'd be all for it!

EVOHUNTER 02-01-2016 04:30 PM

its insane, now we all know why this kit takes out engines lol.

JWillis72 02-01-2016 07:54 PM

You can count me in on the Main bracket anti-flex adapter!

swiss370Z 02-01-2016 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ (Post 3402056)
There has been a recent study by "Swiss370Z" where he had intake temps coming in at 230F and his water was 203F. In other words, the intake temps are barely being cooled.

A short feedback from me

The water temperature of 203F is the cooling water temperature of the engine!
Not the "STILLEN" cooling circuit!

The water in the return pipe of the Plenum Intercoller is only slightly heated!
About 10°C warmer than the air outside!
I'll check with a sensor in the water tank next time...

Exact dates will follow after installation of additional Air- Sensor (behind the Plenum Intercooler).

BTW:
If I could, I would go the way also ... A2A :owned:

Keep up this good Work Guys :tup::tup:

TopgunZ 02-01-2016 09:32 PM

Must have gotten that from the accent. :icon17:

That's still 50 degrees over ambient. So if ambient was 90 degrees you are still sitting at 140f. If that aftercooler was 100% efficient, which it isnt even close to, the temps would come in at the coolest of 140f. Since the charge is 230f I'm guessing it still enters the lower plenum at least around 170f, robbing you of power and not pulling any timing.

Optimiser 02-02-2016 06:17 AM

TopgunZ, are you sure you're working all this out correctly and accurately? :stirthepot:

TopgunZ 02-02-2016 07:22 AM

Oh yeah I never thought of that. Thank you for asking this great question twice and contributing to the 370Z community. We all appreciate your help.

Looks like you put a Stillen kit on just a month ago. You will be asking for an upgrade when your 380whp gets old, which happens to all of us.

*EDIT* 01-20-17 Optimiser bought my kit a few months ago :roflpuke2:

EVOHUNTER 02-02-2016 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ (Post 3402829)
Oh yeah I never thought of that. Thank you for asking this great question twice and contributing to the 370Z community. We all appreciate your help.

hahahhah.

Optimiser 02-02-2016 04:23 PM

I'm not greedy and will never want more HP than what I get now, it's more than enough. I'd rather leave things alone and have the thing stay reliable and not stuff around with it endlessly.

Chuck33079 02-02-2016 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Optimiser (Post 3403276)
and have the thing stay reliable

Then you shouldn't have bought a Stillen kit. :rofl2:

A properly designed air to air setup will make the Stillen kit FAR, FAR more reliable. The off the shelf kit measures air temp pre-compressor. I'd bet folding money that's the reason the Stillen kit has blown more motors than turbo kits have. Switching to a blow-through MAF setup will eliminate the major risk factor with these kits - the ECU having no clue how hot the intake charge is.

EVOHUNTER 02-02-2016 04:47 PM

Even running the stock stillen kit is risky in my opinion.

After seeing swiss's data logging.

As chuck said, this kit spells disaster.

Chuck33079 02-02-2016 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EVOHUNTER (Post 3403306)
After seeing swiss's data logging.

:iagree:

The numbers he posted were terrifying. That kit is a time bomb the way they designed it.

TopgunZ 02-02-2016 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EVOHUNTER (Post 3403306)
Even running the stock stillen kit is risky in my opinion.

After seeing swiss's data logging.

As chuck said, this kit spells disaster.

You mean is risky the way designed by stillen. :tup:

JWillis72 02-02-2016 05:40 PM

I tracked mine for two years with no problems some how. Swiss has a 9 lb pulley I think but I would imagine my temps would have been close in the Florida heat.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

nvdave04 02-02-2016 10:37 PM

I need this in my life ASAP !

swiss370Z 02-03-2016 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWillis72 (Post 3403356)
I tracked mine for two years with no problems some how. Swiss has a 9 lb pulley

Same here for about 3 1/2 Years
(no DD, always just for fun, in the swiss Alps and on the fast lane ;))

+ 9 lb pulley
+ upgraded Impeller

11- 12 Psi on the stock engine (Too much for the OEM block with this Kit)

Why now only 9 Psi?

- Brian Crower Stroker Kit (4.08 Ltr and 10,5 :1 compression rate)

That will change in April:stirthepot:

Optimiser 02-03-2016 12:15 AM

I have already done a track day with the SC and no issues whatsoever.

TopgunZ 02-03-2016 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Optimiser (Post 3403721)
I have already done a track day with the SC and no issues whatsoever.

Have you missed reading any threads on this kit besides this one? It has been stated numerous times that the kit is fine at the power levels your making. Your on the 8psi pulley and im guessing the ultra safe stillen tune. That is what stillen designed this kit for. Now bump up just 1 more psi and you have to sign a waiver that it jeopardizes the kits reliability. They know the kit wasn't designed to make a bunch of power. But it can make great numbers with some better cooling and maf placement. No carb cert though.

EVOHUNTER 02-03-2016 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiss370Z (Post 3403717)
Same here for about 3 1/2 Years
(no DD, always just for fun, in the swiss Alps and on the fast lane ;))

+ 9 lb pulley
+ upgraded Impeller

11- 12 Psi on the stock engine (Too much for the OEM block with this Kit)

Why now only 9 Psi?

- Brian Crower Stroker Kit (4.08 Ltr and 10,5 :1 compression rate)

That will change in April:stirthepot:


Its hard to say, maybe because of the lower compression on pistons?

But in theory your boost should be the same, now that I think about it.

EVOHUNTER 02-03-2016 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ (Post 3403347)
You mean is risky the way designed by stillen. :tup:

Exactly. a2a is the only way.

TBatt 02-03-2016 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EVOHUNTER (Post 3403880)
Exactly. a2a is the only way.

A2A may be the better way but it is not the only way.

Most all of the car makers that offer SC use a water cooled system. They offer the system as a highly developed off the shelf system. If you mod their system the warranty goes away.

I agree with you that a better solution for an open source tuning would be a2a but the stock system seems to be fine. The tune is another story.

I am planning on installing the Stillen kit in June, stock with the canned tune. As soon as it has been tested for leaks and any problems it will go to a tuner and get a proper tune. I have no plans on pushing the kit to higher boost. If I ever do, I will look into a complete solution, not just installing a 9 psi pulley. You have to do your homework if you are going to deviate from the designed system.

Thanks to all for your inputs. This is a great forum!!!!

TopgunZ 02-03-2016 10:11 AM

When your making under 400whp and just above 300wtq it will be fun for a bit. But then knowing you have a car with a motor that has been proven to be reliable up to 600whp and over 500wtq will leave you wanting more.

After spending all that money to get 100hp more, wouldn't you want to spend another roughly 10% to double your gains and add another 100hp?

TopgunZ 02-03-2016 10:17 AM

NOTIFICATION: Although I am still weeks from releasing any kits or upgrades, I am awaiting approval from administration before I am able to sell anything.

I will reply here and edit the original post once this happens.

future370zzz 02-03-2016 04:11 PM

Great work you are doing! Was going to attempt this with my tuner but life happened. Interested to see the results and potential buyer here.

BOLIO 671 02-03-2016 09:02 PM

I'm totally subbed. ....thanks for stepping up to the plate and making this happen Tops

mikey1600 02-04-2016 03:09 AM

awesome man, already let you know I'm keen via PM, have also asked if you need help regarding any RHD pictures and stuff, shouldn't be a problem but better to be safe than sorry ;)

Optimiser 02-04-2016 05:33 AM

Yes make sure you have a "down under" option for those of us who drive on the correct side of the road...:stirthepot:

TopgunZ 02-04-2016 07:55 AM

I do not see why you would have an issue with RHD. Someone mentioned the water pump but you will be taking all that out.

EVOHUNTER 02-04-2016 08:17 AM

If you have the stillen kit right now, the A2A will work. RHD or LHD.

2016 02-04-2016 12:09 PM

Hey guys, I'm new to the forums and I just got a 2014 370z sport touring model. I bought it with the Stillen kit and some other upgrades. I already want more power... Look forward to a2a!

TopgunZ 02-04-2016 12:19 PM

Welcome to the family! The kit is coming together.


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