7A Transmission...dare I commit heresy?

wstar · 12-07-2011, 01:36 PM

In particular, aside from (beginner-mode, imho) tracking my 7AT, I also come from a background of driving a stick (6-speed LS1, in a '99 Trans Am actually) for about a decade before I switched to the 7AT. My shifting necessity/habits haven't changed at all: I drive my 7AT in M-mode always, so I'm always picking my gear like I was used to doing driving manual.

To me, the main downside of crappy/traditional autos is just not being able to tell the car what gear you want to be in. The car *cannot know* what the appropriate gear is. A traditional auto only really has 3 inputs to its gear selection algorithm: RPM, Accel Pedal Position, and Current Speed. None of those account for all of the other factors that go into a manual gearing decision, most of which have to do with seeing/knowing what's on the road in front of you and knowing what you plan to do about it.

With an AT like our 7AT though, that factor's gone. You get to control the gearing all the time. And in that rare sacrilegious moment when you decide you just have to eat a burger in the car while driving somewhere, or let some chick drive your drunk *** home, you can flip it to D and act like a grandma.

All in all, I love the 7AT. As jnaut said: get a cooler on it before doing anything serious. Also, ignore the fact that the Service Manual says the fluid doesn't need to be replaced for life. I'd replace it every 20K miles or so on the street, or more often tracking.

It's not perfect, it's not a DSG/PDK -type thing, but for the price range it's a damn fine compromise and performs well IMHO.

ImportConvert · 12-07-2011, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffblue

or just get a manual and call it a day since its obvious that's what you want (@importconvert) you seem like the kind of guy that would really only get an automatic if it was a built automatic for a drag car or in a DD to put around town.

I have never liked any automatic I have owned (probably my G20 has my least favorite automatic. It died once already, lol).

I figured I would give the 370Z a fair shake so I went and test drove it.

I didn't like it. Not that it was bad, I just did not like it at all. I will get the 6-speed. I was hoping I would like the 7A because it would be easier to get a loaded out 370Z in 7A because thats how most of the loaded cars are ordered in the US.

My main complaint was the lag-time between hitting the paddle and the transmission reacting when in manual mode when not going WOT. Is the delay a big deal? Probably not. It just irked me. I fully admit it is probably a personal bias against it.

wstar · 12-07-2011, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

So...

...what quirks about the 7A would tick me off? Throttle delay even worse than the "drive-by-wire" in use with 99% of cars now?

No, the throttle is just as responsive in M-mode on 7AT as it is on a manual.

Quote:

Delay on the freeway when stomping it in D? Not skipping gears when floored in 7th to a 3rd drop?

If you drive in D, it will shift down as far as it can given rev limits if you floor the pedal and hold it. There's always some pre-shift delay, but IMHO it's not really notable in the scenario.

Quote:

Shift flare? Sluggish shifting when cold? Overheating on track-days without an additional cooler?

I've had occasional shift flare on the 4->5 shift recently, but I think that had more to do with cold fluid and/or me experimenting with strange Torque Map settings for the 7AT in UpRev and/or perhaps I'm slightly underfilled on fluid. In any case 5, 6, and 7 are all overdrive gears anyways. You get into the low 120's mph at the top of 4th when you're on the throttle hard. I could see using maybe 5th on a very fast track on an NA 370, but never 6 or 7.

It does need to warm up a bit if it's cold out and/or the car is overnight cold before it shifts optimally. And it does need an additional cooler for serious track use.

Quote:

How does it feel in "manual"? You floor it and it's an instant connection like the stick, or the tq converter soaks up the "hit" and it feels sluggish from say, a 50mph punch compared to a manual?

It's a very instant connection just like a manual when it's in lockup mode (which is pretty much anytime you're not at extremely low revs, or not in the midst of a shift execution). For example, you can sit up around 4K RPM or whatever at maintenance throttle level and gently play the throttle up and down over the maintenance line and get very reactive feedback from the car shifting between slight accel and slight decel. And if you stomp it at that point, it's going to shoot off just like a manual would.

wstar · 12-07-2011, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

My main complaint was the lag-time between hitting the paddle and the transmission reacting when in manual mode when not going WOT. Is the delay a big deal? Probably not. It just irked me. I fully admit it is probably a personal bias against it.

The lag reduces (a) as the AT warms up, and (b) as you use more RPMs and pedal input. If you're driving at 2-3K RPM going to the grocery store there's a lot more "lag" perception than when you're pushing the car all out.

ImportConvert · 12-07-2011, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

The lag reduces (a) as the AT warms up, and (b) as you use more RPMs and pedal input. If you're driving at 2-3K RPM going to the grocery store there's a lot more "lag" perception than when you're pushing the car all out.

Does the transmission have a temp gauge?

Without an additional oil-cooler for the engine, will the trans, or engine-oil overheat first? (Trying to gauge just how much a cooler for the AT is needed)

vividracing · 12-07-2011, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s

Having just learned how to drive manual recently, I sometimes wish my Z was a 6MT. Then I sit in traffic for like 90 mins and am glad I got the 7AT.

I used to drive about 90 minutes each way to/from work, Mon-Fri and hated it with my 6 puck clutch/8 lb flywheel. Went back to a more sensible clutch and an 11lb flywheel and had no issues in traffic. It's all about the technique!

b1adesofcha0s · 12-07-2011, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vividracing

I used to drive about 90 minutes each way to/from work, Mon-Fri and hated it with my 6 puck clutch/8 lb flywheel. Went back to a more sensible clutch and an 11lb flywheel and had no issues in traffic. It's all about the technique!

I don't really know what it feels like to drive a 6MT in traffic, but I can see why it would be really annoying/tiring.

Jeffblue · 12-07-2011, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s

I don't really know what it feels like to drive a 6MT in traffic, but I can see why it would be really annoying/tiring.

its not exactly the most fun thing in the world, but its not THAT much worse than the overall fun of just sitting in traffic in general. even with an auto its not like 'OH YIPPEEE! traffic! i'm in my automatic this is gonna be a blast!' so its like... traffic sucks anyway... and with stick its slightly more annoying but really not so much if you are used to it.

b1adesofcha0s · 12-07-2011, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffblue

its not exactly the most fun thing in the world, but its not THAT much worse than the overall fun of just sitting in traffic in general. even with an auto its not like 'OH YIPPEEE! traffic! i'm in my automatic this is gonna be a blast!' so its like... traffic sucks anyway... and with stick its slightly more annoying but really not so much if you are used to it.

Are you kidding? That's exactly what I say every time I'm stuck in traffic

Jeffblue · 12-07-2011, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s

Are you kidding? That's exactly what I say every time I'm stuck in traffic

delusional · 12-07-2011, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

Well, I drove a 7A today. I will not be getting one. It took time to respond to inputs that rivaled my sluggish shifting abilities when not at WOT, and it was very indecisive compared to what I had hoped for. It's great, I'm sure, but not for me.

Even the sales rep looked at me kindof funny when I tipped into the throttle 1/3 at 30mph and the car revved, wound down, chose a gear, then selected another, and finally after whirring and bucking for about a full second and a half got with the program of accelerating moderately in the correct gear from 30mph. I can do better on my own.

that is pretty much the only reason why i don't like the 7AT. its VERY indecisive. and sometimes you downshift it and it wont actually downshift for another full 5 seconds!

then it starts jerking alot

Jeffblue · 12-07-2011, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delusional

that is pretty much the only reason why i don't like the 7AT. its VERY indecisive. and sometimes you downshift it and it wont actually downshift for another full 5 seconds!

then i start jerking alot

yea that usually helps me get through most situations that require 5 seconds of waiting.

.... i mean

b1adesofcha0s · 12-07-2011, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delusional

that is pretty much the only reason why i don't like the 7AT. its VERY indecisive. and sometimes you downshift it and it wont actually downshift for another full 5 seconds!

then it starts jerking alot

Hmmm, that's never happened with me.

toxik · 12-07-2011, 06:12 PM

at ftw

Dark Sarcasm · 12-07-2011, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delusional

that is pretty much the only reason why i don't like the 7AT. its VERY indecisive. and sometimes you downshift it and it wont actually downshift for another full 5 seconds!

then it starts jerking alot

i wonder if there is a software change between the years. My AT hasnt hesitated on any shifts when in manual mode. Now when it is in auto mode it does seem jerky, and a little indecisive at times.

12-07-2011, 01:36 PM	#16 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	In particular, aside from (beginner-mode, imho) tracking my 7AT, I also come from a background of driving a stick (6-speed LS1, in a '99 Trans Am actually) for about a decade before I switched to the 7AT. My shifting necessity/habits haven't changed at all: I drive my 7AT in M-mode always, so I'm always picking my gear like I was used to doing driving manual. To me, the main downside of crappy/traditional autos is just not being able to tell the car what gear you want to be in. The car cannot know what the appropriate gear is. A traditional auto only really has 3 inputs to its gear selection algorithm: RPM, Accel Pedal Position, and Current Speed. None of those account for all of the other factors that go into a manual gearing decision, most of which have to do with seeing/knowing what's on the road in front of you and knowing what you plan to do about it. With an AT like our 7AT though, that factor's gone. You get to control the gearing all the time. And in that rare sacrilegious moment when you decide you just have to eat a burger in the car while driving somewhere, or let some chick drive your drunk *** home, you can flip it to D and act like a grandma. All in all, I love the 7AT. As jnaut said: get a cooler on it before doing anything serious. Also, ignore the fact that the Service Manual says the fluid doesn't need to be replaced for life. I'd replace it every 20K miles or so on the street, or more often tracking. It's not perfect, it's not a DSG/PDK -type thing, but for the price range it's a damn fine compromise and performs well IMHO. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

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