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Holy Understeer!

Originally Posted by Hotrodz Show off!!! This is a great place to start and works well for a dual purpose track and street car that sees some twisty road time.

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Old 07-13-2018, 11:20 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotrodz View Post
Show off!!!

This is a great place to start and works well for a dual purpose track and street car that sees some twisty road time. If you are just dd the car there is nothing wrong with having front camber at -1.0 to -1.5 to extend tire life and if you want to maximize straight line speed....well that's a whole other story.

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Old 07-16-2018, 10:57 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
Front 1/16" toe in.
Rear 1/16" toe in.
It's a bit nervous.
What's 1/16" in degrees? Everything else I've read around the forum etc. notes Rear toe MUST be double the value of the front.

FWIW I'm running 255 fronts 325 rear aggressive street only, no track. All OE suspension other than front sway bar and rear adjustable camber/toe bars. ZERO understeer and the tires won't unevenly wear as bad.

Caster 5*
Front camber (not adjustable) -1.02*, -1.23*
Front toe 0.09*

Rear camber -1.04*
Rear toe .018*
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Old 07-16-2018, 03:39 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tractionless View Post
What's 1/16" in degrees? Everything else I've read around the forum etc. notes Rear toe MUST be double the value of the front.

FWIW I'm running 255 fronts 325 rear aggressive street only, no track. All OE suspension other than front sway bar and rear adjustable camber/toe bars. ZERO understeer and the tires won't unevenly wear as bad.

Caster 5*
Front camber (not adjustable) -1.02*, -1.23*
Front toe 0.09*

Rear camber -1.04*
Rear toe .018*
Toe in inches is the old way. The way I was taught doing alignments many years ago. Also toe in inches is affected by size diameter. Where in degrees is off of vehicle center line. Tire diameter won't affect it.

So 1/16" toe in with a 27" tire is .1326288 deg total toe. Or .0663144 deg for one wheel.

For the rear toe. A lot of the track rats here run close to zero toe on the rear. Helps the car rotate.

255 front, 325 rear, and no understeer? You really haven't pushed all that hard.
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:22 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tractionless View Post
What's 1/16" in degrees? Everything else I've read around the forum etc. notes Rear toe MUST be double the value of the front.

FWIW I'm running 255 fronts 325 rear aggressive street only, no track. All OE suspension other than front sway bar and rear adjustable camber/toe bars. ZERO understeer and the tires won't unevenly wear as bad.

Caster 5*
Front camber (not adjustable) -1.02*, -1.23*
Front toe 0.09*

Rear camber -1.04*
Rear toe .018*
How is that even possible? No understeer?
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Old 07-17-2018, 04:34 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by igota21incher View Post
How is that even possible? No understeer?
You just go straight and then make a granny turn to the left or right!

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Old 07-19-2018, 07:13 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
Toe in inches is the old way. The way I was taught doing alignments many years ago. Also toe in inches is affected by size diameter. Where in degrees is off of vehicle center line. Tire diameter won't affect it.

So 1/16" toe in with a 27" tire is .1326288 deg total toe. Or .0663144 deg for one wheel.

For the rear toe. A lot of the track rats here run close to zero toe on the rear. Helps the car rotate.

255 front, 325 rear, and no understeer? You really haven't pushed all that hard.
Thanks for explaining the inches measurement, interesting substitute.

I guess understeer is subjective. Sure if I go 100 mph into a round about I'll get understeer but for the purposes of the OP, which are spirited street/twisties driving I do not have any.

Give me a legitimate scenario to test and I'll do so. As mentioned above, such a test won't be 100 mph into a round about as the most track savy Z on this forum will even understeer in such a circumstance.
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:33 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Thanks for explaining the inches measurement, interesting substitute.

I guess understeer is subjective. Sure if I go 100 mph into a round about I'll get understeer but for the purposes of the OP, which are spirited street/twisties driving I do not have any.

Give me a legitimate scenario to test and I'll do so. As mentioned above, such a test won't be 100 mph into a round about as the most track savy Z on this forum will even understeer in such a circumstance.
You don't have to be traveling at a 100 mph to have understeer. Understeer is when you turn the wheel and the car continues to go straight and adding addition input or turning does not help in getting the car to turn. I NASCAR they call it push because car wants to push through the turn. So Rusty's comment that you aren't driving hard enough refers to how aggressively you take a turn and that can be at 15 mph. It is about your inputs, speed into the corner and power out of said corner. So with your tire combination and the weight of the front end of the Z it is going to understeer when driven hard or at the limit for your tire and alignment setup.
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Old 07-19-2018, 10:59 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotrodz View Post
You don't have to be traveling at a 100 mph to have understeer. Understeer is when you turn the wheel and the car continues to go straight and adding addition input or turning does not help in getting the car to turn. I NASCAR they call it push because car wants to push through the turn. So Rusty's comment that you aren't driving hard enough refers to how aggressively you take a turn and that can be at 15 mph. It is about your inputs, speed into the corner and power out of said corner. So with your tire combination and the weight of the front end of the Z it is going to understeer when driven hard or at the limit for your tire and alignment setup.
This.
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Old 07-19-2018, 02:17 PM   #39 (permalink)
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My old Accord coupe (FF of course) would understeer like hell at 10 mph in the right scenario. It used to happen to me all the time.
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Old 07-20-2018, 09:50 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Hotrodz View Post
You don't have to be traveling at a 100 mph to have understeer.
But its more fun when you are.

https://youtu.be/Mmgk-LvZdfc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=https://youtu.be/Mmgk-LvZdfc

( Click to show/hide )
Totally missed the braking point.
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Old 07-20-2018, 11:03 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Dead video.
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Old 07-20-2018, 11:04 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Now imagine that happening on the street with no cushy grass shoulder to soften your misstep
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Old 07-20-2018, 11:19 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Dead video.
Hmmm, worked for me!

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Old 07-20-2018, 11:20 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Now imagine that happening on the street with no cushy grass shoulder to soften your misstep
This is what I think happened to Cupcakes!

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Old 07-20-2018, 11:28 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Car sounded good #91!
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