front camber HELP

cv129 · 10-06-2016, 03:02 PM

A side note: assuming you don't have chassis issue, that your arms aren't bended due to accidents...you alignment may look fine when it's static and on the alignment rack. But weak bushings will show true color when the car is moving, under acceleration/braking load, under turning/side load.

And there's no scientific way to test bushings, other than a tech grabs and pull/push your suspension arms, and even then it may not be very obvious.

HT Rambler · 10-07-2016, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cv129

^ I knew you weren't directing your remarks toward me.

I think I speak for many members here: Although you are not new to your car and the forum, please do understand that as 370z ages, there are many new owners that are much younger and can have next to no clue about driving a sports car (or driving a car actually), let alone suspensions. Some remarks, although viewed as sarcastic and demeaning, come from frustrations that we get these seemingly simple questions, lacking vital info, with expectation of very simple answers, on topics that get repeatedly covered.

Real story: I've personally knew a car enthusiast, self installed all new aftermarket suspension components, but did not think to get an alignment, completely chewed up all 4 new tires in 2 weeks...yes 2 weeks...then went on FB and ranted his bad luck, defective part, etc etc. Yes, people like this exist, and are hard to distinguish.

Not defending anyone, just want you to understand the other side of the coin.

Anyway, when you get the chance, if you are still up for it, post the latest alignment readout. Preferably both before and after.

Point well taken, not going to beat a dead horse got way to many other things to do. But just for grins go back and read the replies pretty easy to see. while i understand others frustrations if they are not up for it move along if we all were experts and you have no desire or patience maybe a free forum is not the place for you. the have paid sights where you can charge for for EXPERTISE !!
now I'm done with that here is what i have:
Before measurements: left front (left front camber -1.5, left front caster 5.0 , left front toe 0.03) :: (right front camber-1.1, right front caster 4.2, right front toe -0.05.)
After measurements: (left front camber -1.5, left caster 5.0, left front toe 0.11):: (right front camber -1.1, right front caster 4.2, right front toe0.12)
There is a lot of other info let me know if it helps it's for the rear though.
couple more things (before) FRONT total toe -0.02, steer ahead 0.04 (after) total toe .23, steer ahead -0.01

Again thanks for your responses

Halfkiddio · 10-07-2016, 12:54 PM

I am willing to bet you have some bushings going bad. I've had some pretty bad inside edge wear on the fronts with a known good alignment done by myself. I just recently replaced the front bushings on the FLCA's with SPL's, and I have a feeling that odd wear is going to be majorly decreased. You can tell the car doesn't move around in the remaining bushings up front as much, which in turn means there is less dynamic toe/camber change, which will kill tires with a good static alignment.

NoHyperbole · 10-07-2016, 12:59 PM

Based on the fact that you are on the OEM suspension at OEM ride height, unless the alignment rack was not properly calibrated, I'd say you have a problem with one or more of your suspension components or perhaps the bushings. Here's why:

1. Your front camber measurements of -1.5 and -1.1--on an OEM suspension--are much too negative. Most people can get only -0.8 to -1.0 at most. Further, the left-to-right variance is too great. It should be within .1 or .2 at most.

2. Your caster measurements of 5.0 and 4.2 display too much variance as well. They should be within .3 or .4 of each other at most

Spooler · 10-07-2016, 08:32 PM

Looks like you have too much toe in on the front. I'll need to dig up my old alignment sheets to verify. You do have too much camber on both fronts for factory settings. Something is amiss. Has the car ever been in an accident? This can also cause some funky readings and wear issues.
You should be getting 30,000 miles out of a front set of tires.

Rusty · 10-07-2016, 10:34 PM

OP, what tires are on the Z? And how many miles did you get out of the old set?

cv129 · 10-08-2016, 06:21 PM

Assuming no typo, and all the #'s are in degrees (not degree-minute)...

Before front toe was out of whack...left is toe-in (positive), right is toe-out (negative). I imagine Toe-out with the negative camber would accelerate inside edge wear, perhaps what Gomer_110 alluded to earlier.
After Toe, both left and right, are a hair out of range...possibly tech couldn't adjust any further and due to the camber (camber adjustment affects toe).
After Caster, side-to-side difference is actually still within tolerance.
After Camber, the -1.5 is a hair out of OEM range

OEM alignment range courtesy of AK370 Stock alignment specs?

I think you need a experienced tech to inspect all your front bushings. Don't want you to change the upper control arms just to find out there's worn bushing on the lower control arms.

HT Rambler · 10-10-2016, 07:39 AM

Hey Guy's thanks for all he info, as stated I know nothing about these readings unless it shows in or out or should I say red/green according to my sheet !!

Someone asked how many miles did I get from old set of tires? 27k. Again I just found out that tire warranty is 1/2 of stated if you have staggered fit !! The last set were continental.
I will take car to another shop to get another set of readings and to inspect bushings.
also considering going to all 19" rims to be able to rotate them ??

Rusty · 10-10-2016, 12:19 PM

You got 27,000 miles out of the tires? I think you are doing pretty good. A lot don't get anything over 10,000 miles or so.

Spooler · 10-10-2016, 05:20 PM

Right at 30k is the best you can expect out of front tires for our cars. If you got 27K, that is not great, but not bad either.

HT Rambler · 10-11-2016, 04:13 AM

The major concern is the wear pattern, 6/32 on the outer part of the tire and worn so smooth on the inside that the car slides around on a wet surface. no matter what the mileage I would assume something's wrong. The car is a grocery getter at best !!

JARblue · 10-11-2016, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HT Rambler

The major concern is the wear pattern, 6/32 on the outer part of the tire and worn so smooth on the inside that the car slides around on a wet surface. no matter what the mileage I would assume something's wrong. The car is a grocery getter at best !!

I would take it to a competent tech that can actually diagnose your issue. Maybe call up JTran and see if they can help you or at least recommend a competent shop

Halfkiddio · 10-11-2016, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

You got 27,000 miles out of the tires? I think you are doing pretty good. A lot don't get anything over 10,000 miles or so.

Can confirm. I am currently on my 6th set of tires in a year and 5 months, and I have only gotten one set over 10k. And they only made it to 11k lol. 27k out a set would be like seeing a unicorn.

HT Rambler · 10-12-2016, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halfkiddio

Can confirm. I am currently on my 6th set of tires in a year and 5 months, and I have only gotten one set over 10k. And they only made it to 11k lol. 27k out a set would be like seeing a unicorn.

I would get that fixed

Rusty · 10-12-2016, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HT Rambler

The major concern is the wear pattern, 6/32 on the outer part of the tire and worn so smooth on the inside that the car slides around on a wet surface. no matter what the mileage I would assume something's wrong. The car is a grocery getter at best !!

If you want the tires to wear flat. You will need camber arms. Set the camber to zero, and the toe to +1/16". But you most likely hurt the handling some.

10-06-2016, 03:02 PM	#16 (permalink)
cv129 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,191 Drives: 09 Nismo, 16 Nismo Rep Power: 159827	A side note: assuming you don't have chassis issue, that your arms aren't bended due to accidents...you alignment may look fine when it's static and on the alignment rack. But weak bushings will show true color when the car is moving, under acceleration/braking load, under turning/side load. And there's no scientific way to test bushings, other than a tech grabs and pull/push your suspension arms, and even then it may not be very obvious. __________________ Setrab \| RE-71 \| SPL \| JRZ \| Nismo \| ARK \| Whiteline \| RacingBrake \| CJM Oil Pan \| Ti shield

10-07-2016, 12:59 PM	#19 (permalink)
NoHyperbole Base Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 216 Drives: N/A Rep Power: 11	Based on the fact that you are on the OEM suspension at OEM ride height, unless the alignment rack was not properly calibrated, I'd say you have a problem with one or more of your suspension components or perhaps the bushings. Here's why: 1. Your front camber measurements of -1.5 and -1.1--on an OEM suspension--are much too negative. Most people can get only -0.8 to -1.0 at most. Further, the left-to-right variance is too great. It should be within .1 or .2 at most. 2. Your caster measurements of 5.0 and 4.2 display too much variance as well. They should be within .3 or .4 of each other at most gomer_110 and Chuck33079 like this.

10-07-2016, 08:32 PM	#20 (permalink)
Spooler A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Ga Posts: 13,512 Drives: 2013 Nismo 370z Rep Power: 2684391	Looks like you have too much toe in on the front. I'll need to dig up my old alignment sheets to verify. You do have too much camber on both fronts for factory settings. Something is amiss. Has the car ever been in an accident? This can also cause some funky readings and wear issues. You should be getting 30,000 miles out of a front set of tires. Chuck33079 likes this.

10-07-2016, 10:34 PM	#21 (permalink)
Rusty Ronin Samurai - Assassin Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 68 Posts: 34,860 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684436	OP, what tires are on the Z? And how many miles did you get out of the old set? __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

10-08-2016, 06:21 PM	#22 (permalink)
cv129 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,191 Drives: 09 Nismo, 16 Nismo Rep Power: 159827	Assuming no typo, and all the #'s are in degrees (not degree-minute)... Before front toe was out of whack...left is toe-in (positive), right is toe-out (negative). I imagine Toe-out with the negative camber would accelerate inside edge wear, perhaps what Gomer_110 alluded to earlier. After Toe, both left and right, are a hair out of range...possibly tech couldn't adjust any further and due to the camber (camber adjustment affects toe). After Caster, side-to-side difference is actually still within tolerance. After Camber, the -1.5 is a hair out of OEM range OEM alignment range courtesy of AK370 Stock alignment specs? I think you need a experienced tech to inspect all your front bushings. Don't want you to change the upper control arms just to find out there's worn bushing on the lower control arms. __________________ Setrab \| RE-71 \| SPL \| JRZ \| Nismo \| ARK \| Whiteline \| RacingBrake \| CJM Oil Pan \| Ti shield Last edited by cv129; 10-08-2016 at 06:50 PM.

10-07-2016, 12:54 PM	#18 (permalink)
Halfkiddio Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Knoxville Age: 30 Posts: 250 Drives: 09 RAE 370Z Rep Power: 10	I am willing to bet you have some bushings going bad. I've had some pretty bad inside edge wear on the fronts with a known good alignment done by myself. I just recently replaced the front bushings on the FLCA's with SPL's, and I have a feeling that odd wear is going to be majorly decreased. You can tell the car doesn't move around in the remaining bushings up front as much, which in turn means there is less dynamic toe/camber change, which will kill tires with a good static alignment.

10-10-2016, 07:39 AM	#23 (permalink)
HT Rambler Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pearland TX. Posts: 257 Drives: 2009 370z red auto Rep Power: 15	Hey Guy's thanks for all he info, as stated I know nothing about these readings unless it shows in or out or should I say red/green according to my sheet !! Someone asked how many miles did I get from old set of tires? 27k. Again I just found out that tire warranty is 1/2 of stated if you have staggered fit !! The last set were continental. I will take car to another shop to get another set of readings and to inspect bushings. also considering going to all 19" rims to be able to rotate them ??

10-10-2016, 12:19 PM	#24 (permalink)
Rusty Ronin Samurai - Assassin Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 68 Posts: 34,860 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684436	You got 27,000 miles out of the tires? I think you are doing pretty good. A lot don't get anything over 10,000 miles or so. Trips, JARblue, Hotrodz and 1 others like this. __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

10-10-2016, 05:20 PM	#25 (permalink)
Spooler A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Ga Posts: 13,512 Drives: 2013 Nismo 370z Rep Power: 2684391	Right at 30k is the best you can expect out of front tires for our cars. If you got 27K, that is not great, but not bad either.

10-11-2016, 04:13 AM	#26 (permalink)
HT Rambler Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pearland TX. Posts: 257 Drives: 2009 370z red auto Rep Power: 15	The major concern is the wear pattern, 6/32 on the outer part of the tire and worn so smooth on the inside that the car slides around on a wet surface. no matter what the mileage I would assume something's wrong. The car is a grocery getter at best !!

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