Cobb vs UpRev

semtex · 07-06-2009, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuszNissan

Okay so what are the cost diffeneces?
Cobb- $695
Uprev -$1250

And they do the same for N/A cars as Semtex stated above. Would this be correct. Both have data logging and can send in for fine tuning via email. I don't know why I would spen double the price just to change maps from my crusie control...please correct me if I am wrong on these pricing. I am very axnious to get one of these, but just want to get all the facts straight.

Well, are you planning to get a dyno tune? Or just downloadable maps? Because I think that makes a difference. With dyno-tuning, Cobb is actually a little more expensive than UpRev. If you're not planning to dyno tune, then I'd recommend going with UpRev. Be aware, however, that UpRev isn't ready yet. They're still developing their software for the 370Z, last I checked.

NIZMOZ · 07-06-2009, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuszNissan

Okay so what are the cost diffeneces?
Cobb- $695
Uprev -$1250

And they do the same for N/A cars as Semtex stated above. Would this be correct. Both have data logging and can send in for fine tuning via email. I don't know why I would spen double the price just to change maps from my crusie control...please correct me if I am wrong on these pricing. I am very axnious to get one of these, but just want to get all the facts straight.

UPREV doesn't cost near $1250. More around $700 for the tunable one. If not then you can get it for $400 or $500 now.

FuszNissan · 07-06-2009, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIZMOZ

UPREV doesn't cost near $1250. More around $700 for the tunable one. If not then you can get it for $400 or $500 now.

Thanks all the software options they have are a bit confusing
Cipher
Osiris
Etune

semtex · 07-06-2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuszNissan

Thanks all the software options they have are a bit confusing
Cipher
Osiris
Etune

What you want is Osiris Standard, which includes Cipher as well as three eTunes. That costs $700. If you're not going to do a real dyno tune, this makes more sense than Cobb (imo) because you actually send UpRev your data logs and they build you a map based on that data. That's pretty darn close to a proper dyno tune, I think. With Cobb, on the other hand, you just have to take their canned, one size fits all, staged maps. I think Cobb is a good option only if you're planning to use it in conjunction with a proper dyno tune.

FuszNissan · 07-06-2009, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

What you want is Osiris Standard, which includes Cipher as well as three eTunes. That costs $700. If you're not going to do a real dyno tune, this makes more sense than Cobb (imo) because you actually send UpRev your data logs and they build you a map based on that data. That's pretty darn close to a proper dyno tune, I think. With Cobb, on the other hand, you just have to take their canned, one size fits all, staged maps. I think Cobb is a good option only if you're planning to use it in conjunction with a proper dyno tune.

Cobb's website states that you can data logg and send your info to a tuner and get a better map via email. So that is why I was leaning towards cobb. Slimplicity aspect. I wanted to get clear info if this is ture. If not I proabbly will lean towards Revup

LiquidZ · 07-06-2009, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

What you want is Osiris Standard, which includes Cipher as well as three eTunes. That costs $700. If you're not going to do a real dyno tune, this makes more sense than Cobb (imo) because you actually send UpRev your data logs and they build you a map based on that data. That's pretty darn close to a proper dyno tune, I think. With Cobb, on the other hand, you just have to take their canned, one size fits all, staged maps. I think Cobb is a good option only if you're planning to use it in conjunction with a proper dyno tune.

I agree completely. I was thinking that myself. Dyno-tunes are car specific based on modifications. This is another way of getting clost to the same results.

I will add however, I will never get a mail order tune with an FI setup. Dyno-tuning is the only way.

Sharif@Forged · 07-06-2009, 10:06 AM

Good discussions going on here.

I have been reviewing Cobb's technical bulletins and the AP tuning offers everything except for Cam phasing/lift control. The VVEL system is very sophisticated, and it's going to be a while before tuners have full understsanding and control over this. It's important to make the distinction between Camshaft Phasing (also called camshaft timing control), and Camshaft lift control. As a side note, the vast majority of power gains come from fuel and IGNITION timing enhancements, rather than cam phasing and lift contorl. We tune cam phasing on the VQ35's with haltech, and it's easy to see that the OEM mapping got this one pretty right. On the intake side, at WOT, we run from full advance, to full retard by redline. There isn't much more room for refinement there.

We are ProTuners for both Cobb and UpRev, and have quite a bit of experience with both of them, so if anyone has any questions, feel free to ask. I think we are one of the few Nissan based shops that has hands on experience tuning the Cobb AP, which we've done with the GT-R, and also the EvoX.

semtex · 07-06-2009, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged

Good discussions going on here.

I have been reviewing Cobb's technical bulletins and the AP tuning offers everything except for Cam phasing/lift control. The VVEL system is very sophisticated, and it's going to be a while before tuners have full understsanding and control over this. It's important to make the distinction between Camshaft Phasing (also called camshaft timing control), and Camshaft lift control. As a side note, the vast majority of power gains come from fuel and IGNITION timing enhancements, rather than cam phasing and lift contorl. We tune cam phasing on the VQ35's with haltech, and it's easy to see that the OEM mapping got this one pretty right. On the intake side, at WOT, we run from full advance, to full retard by redline. There isn't much more room for refinement there.

We are ProTuners for both Cobb and UpRev, and have quite a bit of experience with both of them, so if anyone has any questions, feel free to ask. I think we are one of the few Nissan based shops that has hands on experience tuning the Cobb AP, which we've done with the GT-R, and also the EvoX.

Hmm...I guess I misheard you when we spoke on the phone. I thought you said that you could tweak cam phasing with Cobb. But from your comments above, this is pretty inconsequential for an NA car, right? i.e., not a reason to hold off and wait for UpRev?

HP Logic · 07-09-2009, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged

Good discussions going on here.

We are ProTuners for both Cobb and UpRev, and have quite a bit of experience with both of them, so if anyone has any questions, feel free to ask. I think we are one of the few Nissan based shops that has hands on experience tuning the Cobb AP, which we've done with the GT-R, and also the EvoX.

Hey Sharif! dont forget about me!

....as a fellow COBB GTR, Nissan, Subaru Pro-tuner...as well as Osiris....i can also answer any questions and will give my input as well....

.....Both systems are very effective when used properly....Cobb is in my opinion a more "End-user" friendly system with its Access-Port keeping your maps handy for quick changes...and as a Datalog tool....

....The Osiris software on the other hand is a bit more tech rich with its Cipher integration and "Real Time Tuning"...(unavailable for nissan on the Cobb as of now)....

Both Cobb and UPREV are devoted to their software development and it is evident in the products they put out for us!....without these companies the tuning world for nissan would be dismal...

....I cant begin to express how excited I am to finally get to spend some tuning time on the 370z!!!...this week has been an eye opener with the Cobb release....hopefully the Osiris update is not too far off.... would love to see how they stack up against each other....

-Jack

FuszNissan · 07-06-2009, 10:18 AM

Well I hope that I can use the data logging on the Cobb and send it to a tuner via email and get better maps sent back from the tuner. It states that on their website, due to not having good tuner shops around here, but not sure if this can actually be done, or if any tuner shops will do this.

FuszNissan · 07-06-2009, 11:01 AM

The other thing is that I drive these Z's a demo's and it would be nice to get a little more power in a conservative manner. But the main point for me is being able to "marry" one car demo it, "unmarry" sell it and "marry" another. Can I do this with the UpRev as easliy? That is the difference for me.

And I do understand your point stated above, it truely isn't a custom tune, but hopefully better then a conservative canned map.

NIZMOZ · 07-06-2009, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuszNissan

The other thing is that I drive these Z's a demo's and it would be nice to get a little more power in a conservative manner. But the main point for me is being able to "marry" one car demo it, "unmarry" sell it and "marry" another. Can I do this with the UpRev as easliy? That is the difference for me.

And I do understand your point stated above, it truely isn't a custom tune, but hopefully better then a conservative canned map.

Yes you can. UPREV will send you the software to put your car back to stock profile. Then you pay $50 I believe to have a new license for a new car.

FricFrac · 07-06-2009, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuszNissan

The other thing is that I drive these Z's a demo's and it would be nice to get a little more power in a conservative manner. But the main point for me is being able to "marry" one car demo it, "unmarry" sell it and "marry" another. Can I do this with the UpRev as easliy? That is the difference for me.

And I do understand your point stated above, it truely isn't a custom tune, but hopefully better then a conservative canned map.

It sounds to me like you want the ability to put a new map in the ECU then do another car but keep the updated map in the old car. I suspect you need to get the "tuner" version in order to do that.

That is my issue with this system - you are spending a huge chunk of change for what is basically a EEPROM programer and just reads data off the data bus on your car. I haven't looked into it really but I suspect that it runs off something like a CAN network. What ends up happening when you tighten the reigns too tight to make some money is techies get upset and try to find their own hack on the system. While I don't mind paying $700 to be able to access the data bus with zero effort the fact that they are reading my serial number on my ECU then only allowing that ECU to use the hardware that burns me because I expect for $700 I should be able to hook my hardware up to my friends ECU and clear his CEL or even program his MAP if I want. $700 is a lot of coin for what this unit is and I don't mind paying for the research but the excessive restrictions are just that - too restrictive for the price paid. Feels like I'm buying an Apple product. I suspect the first hack for this will be a micro controller to monitor the bus then when the unit checks for a serial the ucontroller sends it a default serial thus bypassing the serial check then you can use it for any ECU since its married to the generated serial....

wstar · 07-08-2009, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FricFrac

It sounds to me like you want the ability to put a new map in the ECU then do another car but keep the updated map in the old car. I suspect you need to get the "tuner" version in order to do that.

That is my issue with this system - you are spending a huge chunk of change for what is basically a EEPROM programer and just reads data off the data bus on your car. I haven't looked into it really but I suspect that it runs off something like a CAN network. What ends up happening when you tighten the reigns too tight to make some money is techies get upset and try to find their own hack on the system. While I don't mind paying $700 to be able to access the data bus with zero effort the fact that they are reading my serial number on my ECU then only allowing that ECU to use the hardware that burns me because I expect for $700 I should be able to hook my hardware up to my friends ECU and clear his CEL or even program his MAP if I want. $700 is a lot of coin for what this unit is and I don't mind paying for the research but the excessive restrictions are just that - too restrictive for the price paid. Feels like I'm buying an Apple product. I suspect the first hack for this will be a micro controller to monitor the bus then when the unit checks for a serial the ucontroller sends it a default serial thus bypassing the serial check then you can use it for any ECU since its married to the generated serial....

First off, in the case of the UpRev stuff, you can still hook up to the CAN and read data and clear CELs and whatnot on other cars, not just the licensed car (using your copy of Cipher). And secondly, you're not just uploading a map. What the UpRev guys have done is completely reverse-engineered the car's software and rewritten it. When you program your car with Osiris, you're replacing the factory engine software with their own custom version, which in turn allows easy uploading of multiple tuning setups to the car (again with Osiris) and easy switching of them via the cruise control buttons.

The $700 isn't paying for access to a CAN bus. The $700 is what you're paying them to defray the costs involved in reverse engineering and rewriting the car's ECU software, which is a pretty tricky endeavor.

FricFrac · 07-06-2009, 11:45 AM

I'm looking at around $1200 to get a dyno tune done (gotta head out of town) so would I be on the right track thinking the Osiris Standard with an e-tune is going to get me pretty close to a dyno tune for almost half the cost?

07-06-2009, 10:06 AM	#7 (permalink)
Sharif@Forged The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Marietta, GA Posts: 840 Drives: 2009 GT-R, 2010 370Z Rep Power: 18	Good discussions going on here. I have been reviewing Cobb's technical bulletins and the AP tuning offers everything except for Cam phasing/lift control. The VVEL system is very sophisticated, and it's going to be a while before tuners have full understsanding and control over this. It's important to make the distinction between Camshaft Phasing (also called camshaft timing control), and Camshaft lift control. As a side note, the vast majority of power gains come from fuel and IGNITION timing enhancements, rather than cam phasing and lift contorl. We tune cam phasing on the VQ35's with haltech, and it's easy to see that the OEM mapping got this one pretty right. On the intake side, at WOT, we run from full advance, to full retard by redline. There isn't much more room for refinement there. We are ProTuners for both Cobb and UpRev, and have quite a bit of experience with both of them, so if anyone has any questions, feel free to ask. I think we are one of the few Nissan based shops that has hands on experience tuning the Cobb AP, which we've done with the GT-R, and also the EvoX. __________________ Sharif@Forgedperformance.com General Manager/Certified Tuner/NASA-PCA-BMWCAA Instructor JRZ RS1's Available NOW...PM me Cobb ProTuner, Uprev ECU Flash, FCON Vpro, Haltech, Motec Certified

07-06-2009, 10:18 AM	#10 (permalink)
FuszNissan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: St. Louis Posts: 14,275 Drives: Pure Sex Rep Power: 543	Well I hope that I can use the data logging on the Cobb and send it to a tuner via email and get better maps sent back from the tuner. It states that on their website, due to not having good tuner shops around here, but not sure if this can actually be done, or if any tuner shops will do this. __________________ Mods: Too Many to list! LouFuszNissan ZDAYZ 2012

07-06-2009, 11:01 AM	#11 (permalink)
FuszNissan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: St. Louis Posts: 14,275 Drives: Pure Sex Rep Power: 543	The other thing is that I drive these Z's a demo's and it would be nice to get a little more power in a conservative manner. But the main point for me is being able to "marry" one car demo it, "unmarry" sell it and "marry" another. Can I do this with the UpRev as easliy? That is the difference for me. And I do understand your point stated above, it truely isn't a custom tune, but hopefully better then a conservative canned map. __________________ Mods: Too Many to list! LouFuszNissan ZDAYZ 2012

07-06-2009, 11:45 AM	#15 (permalink)
FricFrac A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Victoria, BC Posts: 1,481 Drives: 370Z 300ZX 280ZX 240 Rep Power: 229	I'm looking at around $1200 to get a dyno tune done (gotta head out of town) so would I be on the right track thinking the Osiris Standard with an e-tune is going to get me pretty close to a dyno tune for almost half the cost? __________________ '09 370Z - '93 300ZX Vert - '83 280ZX - '83 280ZXT -'81 280ZXT stroker - '72 240Z - Stillen CBE, HFC, G3, Grounding Kit, Sways // Swift Spring // H&R 15mm // 5% Tint // Clear Bra //

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