Ice mode solution?

cossie1600 · 02-01-2020, 02:27 AM

I recently replaced all 4 calipers on my car and went with less aggressive pads, everything did get better.

Wigjiggy · 02-02-2020, 07:47 AM

I've been struggling with ice mode ever since I put in my Nismo Pro 2-Way diff. I'm taking the extreme approach and disabling ABS the next time I'm out to see if I can make that work. I hear that the brake bias will make it difficult, so I may also try putting in a bias adjuster to see if I can run without ABS with better control. I'm guessing a full Bosch ABS is the only 100% solution, but that's big $$.

thekinn · 02-03-2020, 04:58 AM

I drive a 350Z and had 'ice mode' issues too. My solution was to completely remove ABS from the car and install a proportioning valve for the rears. Tracking is just a hobby for me and this solution works best for peace of mind and performance.

I did try a number of other brake pads before going to the extreme of ABS removal. A wreck will help make that decision faster for you..

JARblue · 02-03-2020, 09:10 AM

Something like this?

https://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/24-5555

2011 Nismo#91 · 02-03-2020, 10:19 AM

I guess I am one of the lucky ones that's never run into this, I feel bad for you guys. I think I'm just not as hard on the brakes as I could be.

Wigjiggy · 02-03-2020, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue

Something like this?

https://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/24-5555

Yes. That’s it. Just need to figure out the piping necessary. I found posts on here that show examples. I’ll give it a shot and report back with pics. Assuming I pull it off.

thekinn · 02-04-2020, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue

Something like this?

https://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/24-5555

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wigjiggy

Yes. That’s it. Just need to figure out the piping necessary. I found posts on here that show examples. I’ll give it a shot and report back with pics. Assuming I pull it off.

Yes. And although they do not recommend it, you can get the cable/dial accessory so that you can locate the adjuster inside the cabin. I used some locktite on mine and it works. Takes some getting used to with the slack -but easier than burying your hand in the engine bay to get a turn in.

https://www.jegs.com/i/Wilwood/950/3...SABEgLVrvD_BwE

Wigjiggy · 02-04-2020, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekinn

Yes. And although they do not recommend it, you can get the cable/dial accessory so that you can locate the adjuster inside the cabin. I used some locktite on mine and it works. Takes some getting used to with the slack -but easier than burying your hand in the engine bay to get a turn in.

https://www.jegs.com/i/Wilwood/950/3...SABEgLVrvD_BwE

Great idea. Thanks for the help. I would rather adjust while on track.

prandelia · 08-25-2022, 03:06 PM

Reviving this thread. I know Austin Hertel, he races in the same series as I do (with another car), but I built a "clubsport" Nismo that's a hardcore track car. The MK60 isn't an option for me because it deletes all other electronic functions like speedo/tach/etc. etc. The only way to do MK60 and keep the other OE stuff is to install an additional 4 wheel speed sensors and run BOTH ABS setups, which is ridiculous as well, and not really feasible for a street car.

My question is, the Bosch M5 Clubsport kit, is also available for our cars. Can that be installed and still keep use of all other OE functions? That setup, while still expensive, would be worth it IMO if you can still retain the other OE functions (speedo, etc.). The Bosch M5 Clubsport is like 7K. Yes, it's crazy expensive, but alot less expensive than putting my Nismo into a wall.

I had my car lockup, yes, lockup the front wheels going into a corner where you have a slight bit of wheel in the car. It doesn't like that at all. Instead of giving me ABS pules, or Ice Mode, which it's done in that same corner before, this time, it just went to straight lockup, and torched my right front tire. That is some crazy ****. I own all kinds of track cars, and this is by far the worst ABS I've ever driven on. I have the right size tires F/R, have the right stagger in rear pads, all the best brake cooling. Years and years of driving and racing, so I know how to brake. What this means is that if you aren't perfect, which nobody is from time to time, then this will bite you, bad. That's just not an acceptable outcome, because if it happended at another track, I'd have been in a wall.

gomer_110 · 08-25-2022, 08:51 PM

Lost a front splitter on my autox car earlier this year for exactly this reason. Came in hard on a tight 180, hit a small bump and immediate lockup. Ended up in the uneven dirt off the pavement where the splitter dug in and broke into pieces. I just don't understand why an abs system that behaves this way makes any sense.

Out of curiousity, which MK60 units are people using? From what I found the version of the unit you want (the programmable one), is nearly impossible to get anywhere. Is there a reliable source to get them from still?

prandelia · 08-25-2022, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomer_110

Lost a front splitter on my autox car earlier this year for exactly this reason. Came in hard on a tight 180, hit a small bump and immediate lockup. Ended up in the uneven dirt off the pavement where the splitter dug in and broke into pieces. I just don't understand why an abs system that behaves this way makes any sense.

Out of curiousity, which MK60 units are people using? From what I found the version of the unit you want (the programmable one), is nearly impossible to get anywhere. Is there a reliable source to get them from still?

Yeah, it's so ridiculous. Ice mode is one thing, I can still get that on my 991.2 GT3 for christ's sake, but this is a whole different level of stupid programming. My FRS race car uses OE ABS, and it's literally the best OE ABS I've ever used on track, better than BMW, Porsche, etc. So the whole "it's an affordable" sports car is an invalid excuse. I wonder if the 400Z has a better OE system that we can use. It's literally the exact same chassis and underpinnings. Perhaps they finally upgraded it and it's possible to use in our cars.

Contact these guys, they sell a Continental/Teves motorsport version of the MK60 for $3375 that comes with a full harness and everything. Turn-key. If my car wasn't such a nice, low mileage street car, I'd do it in an instant.

https://www.rhtmotorsport.com/

street2soul · 09-04-2022, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomer_110

Lost a front splitter on my autox car earlier this year for exactly this reason. Came in hard on a tight 180, hit a small bump and immediate lockup. Ended up in the uneven dirt off the pavement where the splitter dug in and broke into pieces. I just don't understand why an abs system that behaves this way makes any sense.

Out of curiousity, which MK60 units are people using? From what I found the version of the unit you want (the programmable one), is nearly impossible to get anywhere. Is there a reliable source to get them from still?

Douglas Wardell @ Racing Harness Technology

SeeThruHead · 09-04-2022, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prandelia

Yeah, it's so ridiculous. Ice mode is one thing, I can still get that on my 991.2 GT3 for christ's sake, but this is a whole different level of stupid programming. My FRS race car uses OE ABS, and it's literally the best OE ABS I've ever used on track, better than BMW, Porsche, etc. So the whole "it's an affordable" sports car is an invalid excuse. I wonder if the 400Z has a better OE system that we can use. It's literally the exact same chassis and underpinnings. Perhaps they finally upgraded it and it's possible to use in our cars.

Contact these guys, they sell a Continental/Teves motorsport version of the MK60 for $3375 that comes with a full harness and everything. Turn-key. If my car wasn't such a nice, low mileage street car, I'd do it in an instant.

https://www.rhtmotorsport.com/

I would not hold out any hope of the electronic systems in the 2023 Z being better for track driving.

Spooler · 09-04-2022, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prandelia

Reviving this thread. I know Austin Hertel, he races in the same series as I do (with another car), but I built a "clubsport" Nismo that's a hardcore track car. The MK60 isn't an option for me because it deletes all other electronic functions like speedo/tach/etc. etc. The only way to do MK60 and keep the other OE stuff is to install an additional 4 wheel speed sensors and run BOTH ABS setups, which is ridiculous as well, and not really feasible for a street car.

My question is, the Bosch M5 Clubsport kit, is also available for our cars. Can that be installed and still keep use of all other OE functions? That setup, while still expensive, would be worth it IMO if you can still retain the other OE functions (speedo, etc.). The Bosch M5 Clubsport is like 7K. Yes, it's crazy expensive, but alot less expensive than putting my Nismo into a wall.

I had my car lockup, yes, lockup the front wheels going into a corner where you have a slight bit of wheel in the car. It doesn't like that at all. Instead of giving me ABS pules, or Ice Mode, which it's done in that same corner before, this time, it just went to straight lockup, and torched my right front tire. That is some crazy ****. I own all kinds of track cars, and this is by far the worst ABS I've ever driven on. I have the right size tires F/R, have the right stagger in rear pads, all the best brake cooling. Years and years of driving and racing, so I know how to brake. What this means is that if you aren't perfect, which nobody is from time to time, then this will bite you, bad. That's just not an acceptable outcome, because if it happended at another track, I'd have been in a wall.

HotrodZ has had it done. It took him forever to get the parts. Had to get them from Germany and it took a long while. He is in the testing phase of his car now. Had issues with overheating, working on that at the moment.

Girald · 09-07-2022, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AutoX Z

I'm getting pretty sick of the ice mode on my car and have tried to try and fix it. Because of the SCCA rules Im pretty much limited to changing pads and fluid. Has anyone figured out a way to at least improve the braking performance with these restrictions?

Also FYI this is a daily street driven car and will only be used for autox. Please keep this in mind and don't bother recommending track-oriented solutions.

The best solution i can think of lies in brake management and added rear downforce to fight rear lockups... downforce is definitely your friend...

There are some brake "tuning" solutions to limit the amount of brake force to the rear( like a manifold or inline system where you can manually dial back the brake pressure. you can also meter it with different brake pad types, i.e. carbotech 8s in the front and something much less grippy but race durable in the rear.

The other, more obvious solution is to manage brake inputs to limit the effect.

On open track, I had Carbotech 10s and 8s. I found that i had some rear lock ups.. after a few laps the ice mode decided to join the party and sent me off the track a few times.

backing off my brake inputs and "feeling for" what i could get away with (aggressive braking-wise) helped me stay in a pocket of functionality.

But, i noticed more rear bias than necessary on the pads.

my solution was foot to pedal managing and flowing through the courses a bit more efficiently made it better, but considered a bias control manifold...

I since turbo'ed the car and this more of a grenade at that level of abuse. im considering buying another Z for a stripped down built na track build. but thats down the track.. that ice garbage will just get eliminated with a haltech ecu/

02-03-2020, 04:58 AM	#258 (permalink)
thekinn Base Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 205 Drives: 06 350Z LS MT Rep Power: 6861	I drive a 350Z and had 'ice mode' issues too. My solution was to completely remove ABS from the car and install a proportioning valve for the rears. Tracking is just a hobby for me and this solution works best for peace of mind and performance. I did try a number of other brake pads before going to the extreme of ABS removal. A wreck will help make that decision faster for you.. Wigjiggy likes this. __________________ 06 Enthusiast MT - v2

02-03-2020, 09:10 AM	#259 (permalink)
JARblue A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Austin, TX Age: 43 Posts: 36,449 Drives: 11 Z34, 98 E36 M3 Rep Power: 2684440	Something like this? https://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/24-5555 __________________ 2011 370Z 6MT Sport Gun Metallic \| ARC \| CJM \| Ecutek \| FI \| Fujimura \| R2C \| SPL \| Stillen \| TWM \| Z1 \| ZSpeed \|

02-03-2020, 10:19 AM	#260 (permalink)
2011 Nismo#91 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: NJ Posts: 2,380 Drives: slowly Rep Power: 33858	I guess I am one of the lucky ones that's never run into this, I feel bad for you guys. I think I'm just not as hard on the brakes as I could be. Rusty and Wigjiggy like this.

08-25-2022, 08:51 PM	#265 (permalink)
gomer_110 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Perrysburg, OH Posts: 17,992 Drives: '11 Nismo #528 GM Rep Power: 36940	Lost a front splitter on my autox car earlier this year for exactly this reason. Came in hard on a tight 180, hit a small bump and immediate lockup. Ended up in the uneven dirt off the pavement where the splitter dug in and broke into pieces. I just don't understand why an abs system that behaves this way makes any sense. Out of curiousity, which MK60 units are people using? From what I found the version of the unit you want (the programmable one), is nearly impossible to get anywhere. Is there a reliable source to get them from still? __________________ '11 370Z Nismo #528 Fast Intentions \| Stillen \| Motordyne \| Uprev \| CSF \| Zspeed \| Z1 Motorsports \| AST \| Swift \| SPC \| SPL \| Whiteline \| Hotchkis \| Bride \| Schroth \| Robispec \| Cusco \| Nismo \| Volk \| Forgestar \| Hoosier \| RJM '17 Titan Bone Stock

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02-01-2020, 02:27 AM	#256 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 29	I recently replaced all 4 calipers on my car and went with less aggressive pads, everything did get better.

02-02-2020, 07:47 AM	#257 (permalink)
Wigjiggy Base Member Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Florida Posts: 127 Drives: 2013 370Z Rep Power: 6	I've been struggling with ice mode ever since I put in my Nismo Pro 2-Way diff. I'm taking the extreme approach and disabling ABS the next time I'm out to see if I can make that work. I hear that the brake bias will make it difficult, so I may also try putting in a bias adjuster to see if I can run without ABS with better control. I'm guessing a full Bosch ABS is the only 100% solution, but that's big $$.

08-25-2022, 03:06 PM	#264 (permalink)
prandelia Base Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 41 Drives: 2014 Nismo 370Z Rep Power: 299	Reviving this thread. I know Austin Hertel, he races in the same series as I do (with another car), but I built a "clubsport" Nismo that's a hardcore track car. The MK60 isn't an option for me because it deletes all other electronic functions like speedo/tach/etc. etc. The only way to do MK60 and keep the other OE stuff is to install an additional 4 wheel speed sensors and run BOTH ABS setups, which is ridiculous as well, and not really feasible for a street car. My question is, the Bosch M5 Clubsport kit, is also available for our cars. Can that be installed and still keep use of all other OE functions? That setup, while still expensive, would be worth it IMO if you can still retain the other OE functions (speedo, etc.). The Bosch M5 Clubsport is like 7K. Yes, it's crazy expensive, but alot less expensive than putting my Nismo into a wall. I had my car lockup, yes, lockup the front wheels going into a corner where you have a slight bit of wheel in the car. It doesn't like that at all. Instead of giving me ABS pules, or Ice Mode, which it's done in that same corner before, this time, it just went to straight lockup, and torched my right front tire. That is some crazy ****. I own all kinds of track cars, and this is by far the worst ABS I've ever driven on. I have the right size tires F/R, have the right stagger in rear pads, all the best brake cooling. Years and years of driving and racing, so I know how to brake. What this means is that if you aren't perfect, which nobody is from time to time, then this will bite you, bad. That's just not an acceptable outcome, because if it happended at another track, I'd have been in a wall.