Real Talk about Base Brakes

[HapaZ]

Ok I have a base model because when I purchased the car I didn't foresee getting into tracking. 5 years later, that seems to be changing. I've done some autox events and now I think I'm ready to step up to my first actual track day at Thunderhill in a few months. I know people are going to say that if I am serious about tracking the car I should do a sport brake upgrade. I will be budgeting for an akebono upgrade over the next year but I wanted to see if anyone has tracked with the base brakes. Maybe with a pad/fluid upgrade? I see that z1 sells carbotech xp8's/10's for base brakes and I'm considering those before the akebono's. Any input on whether I should skip the track until I've done the full upgrade or if I can get by with pads/fluids in the meantime so I don't have to sit out until next year. Thanks!

[Eagle]

Originally Posted by HapaZ

Ok I have a base model because when I purchased the car I didn't foresee getting into tracking. 5 years later, that seems to be changing. I've done some autox events and now I think I'm ready to step up to my first actual track day at Thunderhill in a few months. I know people are going to say that if I am serious about tracking the car I should do a sport brake upgrade. I will be budgeting for an akebono upgrade over the next year but I wanted to see if anyone has tracked with the base brakes. Maybe with a pad/fluid upgrade? I see that z1 sells carbotech xp8's/10's for base brakes and I'm considering those before the akebono's. Any input on whether I should skip the track until I've done the full upgrade or if I can get by with pads/fluids in the meantime so I don't have to sit out until next year. Thanks!

I never ran on the base brakes personally but have feedback from one or two guys who have. They work until they don't, the pads and smaller rotors will overheat faster than the Akebonos when pushed to the limit. A friend of mine who ran with the base brakes ended up putting down similar lap times to mine at Fontana Auto Club Speedway but was pushing his brakes to the max, after his session was done he pulled into the garage with smoke billowing from his wheels.

His brakes got so hot that his stopping power dropped significantly. Pretty sure his pads and fluids were toast after that. So to summarize, yeah you can run em and even be competitive but you won't get the longevity, the stopping power or the ability to dissipate heat as easily as you can with the Akebonos

[SG4247]

I am not impressed with the sport brakes. Base brakes are not really in the conversation.

I would wait and buy some real brakes, that you KNOW can be trusted.

[YYZ]

It's my understanding that you need proper fluid and pads if your serious about tracking your car with sport brakes. Cooling ducts would be a good idea as well.

[MaysEffect]

Brake cooling is your number one priority. Second is rotor material and pad material. The sport calipers and rotors aren't worth a damn if you don't route better cooling ducts.

You can easily get away with running a stop tech rotor upgrade, better pads and brake lines....and better fluids. But you'll need cooling ducts.

Mono piston calipers however are more susceptible to pad knock back and subsequent rotor warping and uneven pad wear. Your main priority however is Temps. And contrary to belief, a mono piston caliper actually handles heat better than the sport calipers and will cause less fluid boiling.

I personally would just get a stop tech 4 piston front kit and call it a day. Stop tech may be able to get you a str-40 caliper kit for a good price if you call them directly.

[cv129]

Originally Posted by MaysEffect

Brake cooling is your number one priority. Second is rotor material and pad material. The sport calipers and rotors aren't worth a damn if you don't route better cooling ducts.

You can easily get away with running a stop tech rotor upgrade, better pads and brake lines....and better fluids. But you'll need cooling ducts.

Mono piston calipers however are more susceptible to pad knock back and subsequent rotor warping and uneven pad wear. Your main priority however is Temps. And contrary to belief, a mono piston caliper actually handles heat better than the sport calipers and will cause less fluid boiling.

I personally would just get a stop tech 4 piston front kit and call it a day. Stop tech may be able to get you a str-40 caliper kit for a good price if you call them directly.

Cooling Duct should come before switching to different calipers and rotor size. Without better cooling, you will cook whatever hardware upgrade you put in as you push harder and harder.

[2011 Nismo#91]

Originally Posted by HapaZ

Ok I have a base model because when I purchased the car I didn't foresee getting into tracking. 5 years later, that seems to be changing. I've done some autox events and now I think I'm ready to step up to my first actual track day at Thunderhill in a few months. I know people are going to say that if I am serious about tracking the car I should do a sport brake upgrade. I will be budgeting for an akebono upgrade over the next year but I wanted to see if anyone has tracked with the base brakes. Maybe with a pad/fluid upgrade? I see that z1 sells carbotech xp8's/10's for base brakes and I'm considering those before the akebono's. Any input on whether I should skip the track until I've done the full upgrade or if I can get by with pads/fluids in the meantime so I don't have to sit out until next year. Thanks!

Like Eagle said you can but you have to be careful of overheating and losing braking effectiveness. Your first even't and starting in the novice group I don't think you will have an issue with base brakes. I've seen many cars you would not expect to be on the track in the novice group not have an issue with cooking the breaks but you can't push the car as hard is all. You need an oil cooler, high temp brake fluid, and good pads.

IMO: RBF660 and flush or check it often with a tester for water content. I'd go one step higher on the pads 12/10 for these if you can. Just good practice is to know your runoff areas, for example just looking at a map of ThunderHill Turn 10E and 1E are very different for runnoff areas. Keeping straight on 10E buys you atleast triple the distance to slow down as making a slight turn. 1E Though there is alot of run off straight too, a slight turn will give you more distance.

[HapaZ]

Thanks for the help, all! I hadn't even thought of the brake ducts! Seems like no matter what direction I go, they'd be a good place to start as I build up. And just so I'm clear... could I run a stoptech kit up front with the base brakes in the rear? Would that make any sense? Just thinking budget wise about what would be feasible.

[JARblue]

Big brake kits are are designed with proper F/R brake balance. I wouldn't mix and match calipers. Save your money and do it right the first time.

The base brakes will be fine as long as you get some decent pads and fluids in there and don't do any threshold braking. Get more seat time and take it easy on the brakes until you can upgrade.

[Jayhovah]

Budget Akebono kit

[Eagle]

I second what the others said about pads and fluids, regardless what setup you have. Put a good fluid like Endless, Project mU, Motul RBF 660, Brembo HTC64/LCF and a pad that can take higher temps. You might be able to get away with running the OEM pads for one or two track days, but if you want them to last I'd get something better. I'm personally running the Endless MX72 and the MX72+. Looking at moving up to the Endless CCRG next.

As for upgrading to a BBK or adding brake ducts? I don't think thats necessary yet. I have a caliper temperature gauge on my akebonos, the gauge explodes tiny packets of gunpowder as the temperatures rise indicating the high point. In my 2 years of serious time attack driving, i've never had a single one trigger. Maybe i'm just good on my brakes but i know my lap times are fairly competitive.

If you're having heat issues or can't stop the car quick enough, then you should think about doing those things but till then focus on learning the car for now.

[HapaZ]

So after considering the options I think I’m going to keep my calipers and run carbotech 10/8 or 12/10’s with the ducts for around $700. I have some RBF 660 that I can use when it’s time to hit the track. Seems like a reasonable way of getting some piece of mind without blowing the bank.

[MaysEffect]

could I run a stoptech kit up front with the base brakes in the rear? Would that make any sense? Just thinking budget wise about what would be feasible.

Yes you can. Most big brake kits are not actually designed for F/R balance, but rather how well they match to the standard master cylinder so that pressure is evenly distributed across all 4 calipers. Brembo kits are usually the worst at doing this. Stoptech and AP brakes do a better job if they make a kit specifically for your car. I suggested Stoptech purely because i know for a fact they make kits specifically for the 350z and 370z, so you should have no problems having a caliper properly match your standard system. Most problems stem from people putting on massive 6 piston calipers that do not properly match the master cylinder. This will actually ruin the F/R pressure distribution (Brembos ). A smaller 4 piston caliper with properly matched pistons will work better in most scenarios. The rest is up to heat management.

Also be aware of they fact, coated rotors do not work better for extreme heat abuse. The coating acts as an insulator and traps more heat into the disc surface and can glaze the pad prematurely. This is primarily done for cars in cold climate conditions that are prone to rusting. You want a non coated rotor with wide internal vanes if possible. Slotted/dotted doesn't make much of a difference either, you are just losing surface area, which doesn't help if your rotors are undersized in the first place. You don't need anything larger than a 355mm F/340m R rotor, so stay away from the larger BS unless you plan on going endurance racing.

[JARblue]

Originally Posted by MaysEffect

Most big brake kits are not actually designed for F/R balance, but rather how well they match to the standard master cylinder so that pressure is evenly distributed across all 4 calipers.