Motortrend: Z/28 vs 911 Turbo S vs GTR

b15 · 03-31-2014, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

I've said it time and time again. Nissan doesn't have any clue how to set up a suspension, and there is a reason GM sells their suspension tech to ferrari. GM took long enough, but they know how to make a vehicle handle. Pobst did his best in all 3 cars I'm sure, and knows how to flog an awd chassis. It is what it is folks.

If Nissan didn't have a clue how to set up a suspension, why did it take GM a fully tracked prepped vehicle with no creature comforts to take down a non track model GTR and 911 with all the goodies. Let's not forget the GTR hasnt had any substantial updates since 2009 yet is still the benchmark in a lot of ways. Yeah...chasing down a 5yr old chassis is good tech. Also the GTR and Camaro are by no means light weight...but Nissan figured a way to make to GTR fast in turns back in 2009. How good was a Camaro taking the corners then with GMs great suspension set up? To make this a valid challenge it should be rerun with a Nismo GTR and GT3 and let's see how wonderful GM is.

ImportConvert · 03-31-2014, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b15

If Nissan didn't have a clue how to set up a suspension, why did it take GM a fully tracked prepped vehicle with no creature comforts to take down a non track model GTR and 911 with all the goodies. Let's not forget the GTR hasnt had any substantial updates since 2009 yet is still the benchmark in a lot of ways. Yeah...chasing down a 5yr old chassis is good tech. Also the GTR and Camaro are by no means light weight...but Nissan figured a way to make to GTR fast in turns back in 2009. How good was a Camaro taking the corners then with GMs great suspension set up? To make this a valid challenge it should be rerun with a Nismo GTR and GT3 and let's see how wonderful GM is.

...it's their entry level chassis (with tweaking obviously). It was 2 wheel drive. The comparison is a joke. Compare vehicles of equal value...let's put even last year's c6z with mrc in the equation.

I stand by my assessment. My nissan factory sport suspension was junk. That is personal experience on the 370. Then this camaro trumps the gtr. Joke comparison (look at msrps...)...but still. I'll never respect nissan for their suspension. Other things, yes.

G37Sam · 03-31-2014, 05:34 AM

Nissan doesn't know how to set up a suspension?? That's a first.

ImportConvert · 03-31-2014, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G37Sam

Nissan doesn't know how to set up a suspension?? That's a first.

Not really. Look at their gtr when they ran the ring time and time and time again tweaking it. GM rolled a car off the showroom floor, added safety and cameras, and did the damn thing. Boom.

Z_ealot · 03-31-2014, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

Not really. Look at their gtr when they ran the ring time and time and time again tweaking it. GM rolled a car off the showroom floor, added safety and cameras, and did the damn thing. Boom.

and you have proof that GM didnt do track sessions to fine tune the suspension where?

Z_ealot · 03-31-2014, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G37Sam

Nissan doesn't know how to set up a suspension?? That's a first.

i guess that means our cars just magically keep themselves from dragging along the ground lol

DCNISMO · 03-31-2014, 08:35 AM

Quote:

To make this a valid challenge it should be rerun with a Nismo GTR and GT3 and let's see how wonderful GM is.

You are wrong, the COST is the driving factor here....the Z28 while being a pricey Camaro....costs I'm guessing 70K LESS than a Nismo GTR and 100K LESS than a GT3. The point is that a Z28 has about the SAME PRICE as a base 911 and about 30K cheaper than a GTR. And for THAT money it beats them both. Lets see the new C7 Z06 go against the GTR Nismo and GT3. Some of you guys are worse than the Audi or BMW dicks that hate on the Z. DRive a car yourself before you hate on it. Then again most dealers are not going to let the main demographic of the Z test drive a Z28 or Z06. I have a CTS-V, I can't fit in a C7..but I fit in the Z28. Would they let me test drive one? Who knows.

Z_ealot · 03-31-2014, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCNISMO

You are wrong, the COST is the driving factor here....the Z28 while being a pricey Camaro....costs I'm guessing 70K LESS than a Nismo GTR and 100K LESS than a GT3. The point is that a Z28 has about the SAME PRICE as a base 911 and about 30K cheaper than a GTR. And for THAT money it beats them both. Lets see the new C7 Z06 go against the GTR Nismo and GT3. Some of you guys are worse than the Audi or BMW dicks that hate on the Z. DRive a car yourself before you hate on it. Then again most dealers are not going to let the main demographic of the Z test drive a Z28 or Z06. I have a CTS-V, I can't fit in a C7..but I fit in the Z28. Would they let me test drive one? Who knows.

wasnt hating on it myself, just pointing out that the Z/28 is in fact an almost fully track prepped car...i mean it has no AC, carbon ceramic rotors, and almost racing slick tires and you want to tell me it's not fair to compare it to almost fully track prepped versions of the other 2 rather than the ones they chose which have AC, dont have carbon ceramic brakes and are running on regular summer tires?

Sh0velMan · 03-31-2014, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z_ealot

wasnt hating on it myself, just pointing out that the Z/28 is in fact an almost fully track prepped car...i mean it has no AC, carbon ceramic rotors, and almost racing slick tires and you want to tell me it's not fair to compare it to almost fully track prepped versions of the other 2 rather than the ones they chose which have AC, dont have carbon ceramic brakes and are running on regular summer tires?

You're mixing metrics.

Cost is absolutely the factor we are comparing against here, not level of track-readiness.

So we're picking the 911 that is closest to the same price as the Z/28, and the Z/28 blows it away.

This is a very, very narrow window through which to compare cars, which is why it is easy to get yourself confused on what we are comparing.

Compare almost any other stat (not counting reliability, TCO or anything else that 'semi exotics' like a 911 GT3 or GT-R would have weaknesses in relative to any pony car) and the differences are a lot less positive. The Camaro's interior is abysmal, resale will suffer, etc. (In comparison to a Porsche or GT-R)

I absolutely love the Z/28 and would trade my Z for it without batting an eye. The amount of controversy this car is stirring up just goes to show what a catalyst to the track-tuner-special market the Z/28 really is. All I can say is MOAR!

Z_ealot · 03-31-2014, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh0velMan

You're mixing metrics.

Cost is absolutely the factor we are comparing against here, not level of track-readiness.

So we're picking the 911 that is closest to the same price as the Z/28, and the Z/28 blows it away.

This is a very, very narrow window through which to compare cars, which is why it is easy to get yourself confused on what we are comparing.

Compare almost any other stat (not counting reliability, TCO or anything else that 'semi exotics' like a 911 GT3 or GT-R would have weaknesses in relative to any pony car) and the differences are a lot less positive. The Camaro's interior is abysmal, resale will suffer, etc. (In comparison to a Porsche or GT-R)

I absolutely love the Z/28 and would trade my Z for it without batting an eye. The amount of controversy this car is stirring up just goes to show what a catalyst to the track-tuner-special market the Z/28 really is. All I can say is MOAR!

but i still find it funny that everyone on here saying the Z/28 slaughtered the GT-R just glosses over the fact that the GT-R absolutely destroyed the Z/28 in the 0-60 and 1/4 mile department, but good job in the handling department as far as the Z/28 is concerned

b15 · 03-31-2014, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh0velMan

You're mixing metrics.

Cost is absolutely the factor we are comparing against here, not level of track-readiness.

So we're picking the 911 that is closest to the same price as the Z/28, and the Z/28 blows it away.

This is a very, very narrow window through which to compare cars, which is why it is easy to get yourself confused on what we are comparing.

Compare almost any other stat (not counting reliability, TCO or anything else that 'semi exotics' like a 911 GT3 or GT-R would have weaknesses in relative to any pony car) and the differences are a lot less positive. The Camaro's interior is abysmal, resale will suffer, etc. (In comparison to a Porsche or GT-R)

I absolutely love the Z/28 and would trade my Z for it without batting an eye. The amount of controversy this car is stirring up just goes to show what a catalyst to the track-tuner-special market the Z/28 really is. All I can say is MOAR!

Im sorry perhaps my comprehension of numbers is bad....but since when is a $181,000 Turbo S close to a $75k Z/28.

Sh0velMan · 03-31-2014, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b15

Im sorry perhaps my comprehension of numbers is bad....but since when is a $181,000 Turbo S close to a $75k Z/28.

Looks pretty close here:

Jokes aside, I was referring to a previous post where someone mentioned a 911 Carrera, which the Z/28 destroys in every performance metric while costing less. I didn't acknowledge that the article in the OP is actually comparing vs a Turbo S, which the Z/28 still manages to best on the track, even if the Turbo S is faster in every 'synthetic' test.

Sorry for the confusion.

b15 · 03-31-2014, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCNISMO

You are wrong, the COST is the driving factor here....the Z28 while being a pricey Camaro....costs I'm guessing 70K LESS than a Nismo GTR and 100K LESS than a GT3. The point is that a Z28 has about the SAME PRICE as a base 911 and about 30K cheaper than a GTR. And for THAT money it beats them both. Lets see the new C7 Z06 go against the GTR Nismo and GT3. Some of you guys are worse than the Audi or BMW dicks that hate on the Z. DRive a car yourself before you hate on it. Then again most dealers are not going to let the main demographic of the Z test drive a Z28 or Z06. I have a CTS-V, I can't fit in a C7..but I fit in the Z28. Would they let me test drive one? Who knows.

Yep absolutely! You totally missed my point but thank you for this well thought and informative post.

This article isn't about cost its about performance and what they had available. If it was about cost they wouldnt be using a turbo S let alone a GT3. If you want to compare performance then do so regardless of price.

Do you seriously think someone who owns a $200k Porsche would bat an eye at a $75k Camaro? Even if it out performs it? This cost argument is only applicable if you're looking at raw performance and nothing else. Very few people do that. Yeah its the same arguement BMW owners have said towards the Z and so on and so forth. That's the beauty of opinions and freedom to buy what we want

Sh0velMan · 03-31-2014, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b15

Yep absolutely! You totally missed my point but thank you for this well thought and informative post.

This article isn't about cost its about performance and what they had available. If it was about cost they wouldnt be using a turbo S let alone a GT3. If you want to compare performance then do so regardless of price.

Do you seriously think someone who owns a $200k Porsche would bat an eye at a $75k Camaro? Even if it out performs it? This cost argument is only applicable if you're looking at raw performance and nothing else. Very few people do that. Yeah its the same arguement BMW owners have said towards the Z and so on and so forth. That's the beauty of opinions and freedom to buy what we want

This is an invalid argument for the discussion at hand.

This isn't about egos, it's about a 70k car being as fast as a 120-140k car around a track.

Also, what BMW driver wastes time talking about Zs? I've never experienced this...because there's very little model overlap for discussion to even be had, unless you're just looking to start a fight, which may be the case I guess? Exception would be around track people, where the discussion pretty much always goes:

BMW = E92 M3 - BMW Wins
BMW = E36 M3 - Depends on modifications
BMW = Anything else - Z Wins

Most non-zealot BMW drivers will agree with this, if presented with the basic specs and stats. (Exceptions being 335 drivers who have turned up the boost to make their car uber fast in the straight line and worthless otherwise. I tend to just ignore them.)

G37sHKS · 03-31-2014, 08:38 AM

GM sells their suspension techniques to Ferrari?

03-31-2014, 05:34 AM	#3 (permalink)
G37Sam A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Dubai, UAE Posts: 1,507 Drives: RB'd G37 Rep Power: 21	Nissan doesn't know how to set up a suspension?? That's a first. ZKraken22 likes this. __________________ '14 Viper GTS '08 RB'd G37S - Sold

03-31-2014, 08:38 AM	#15 (permalink)
G37sHKS A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Dubai Posts: 1,183 Drives: 09 G37S Coupe 7AT Rep Power: 21	GM sells their suspension techniques to Ferrari? __________________ G37 BUILD UNDER CONSTRUCTION

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