2013 Car and Driver Lightning Lap

370Zsteve · 05-15-2013, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red6spd

I cant speak for cornering G's slaloms braking cause I don't really feel like looking them up (maybe Red_Zed can) but straight line performance is about the same with the new Cayman S maybe being a tad faster. But like you said the car starts at $72,900 and just gets more expensive.

It STARTS at 72,900 now? Haha, when you option it, expect to pay about $90K then.

Red__Zed · 05-15-2013, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Zsteve

It STARTS at 72,900 now? Haha, when you option it, expect to pay about $90K then.

Looks like it starts just under $64K.

red6spd · 05-15-2013, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Zsteve

It STARTS at 72,900 now? Haha, when you option it, expect to pay about $90K then.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My bad that was Canada Porsche. It starts at $63,800 for the s

sorry

cossie1600 · 05-12-2013, 02:14 PM

1st gen Cayman came out in 2005, so everyone was comparing a 2009 car to a 2005?

UNKNOWN_370 · 05-13-2013, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cossie1600

1st gen Cayman came out in 2005, so everyone was comparing a 2009 car to a 2005?

1. They were comparing it to the 2008 which had updates in 2008,
2. Then in 2010, it went from 6 speed auto to PDK transmission.
3. The nissan to porsche redesign cycle is 3 years apart. Our redesign happens during there refresh. Actually, Porsche does things annual/2yr with some type of significance. Nissan doesn't.

For a car thats $30,000 more than the Z. Its fair to judge a 2008, cayman refresh to a 2009 Z redesign. Don't misinform to prove a borderline fanboy point.

Red__Zed · 05-14-2013, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red6spd

I know I will just be told I'm making crap up and I will be demanded to show proof but its been so long ago its hard to find but the 370 in this test was abused heavily for every mile on its clock. Its the same 370Z they achieved a pathetic 0-60 time of around 5.5 seconds and a 1/4 mile in the high 13's. In the same article they even mention it felt wrong the car. So I know I will be blasted by some people but this is the reason this car ran such a garbage lap.

OK, I will bite, but only because I'm bored without my ZdayZ fix.

Not only have you made this statement no less than four times without providing a source, the lap time deltas are comparable to a number of other tests. Whether the car was abused any differently than any other car in the test (because let's face it, none of these cars were being babied)is subject to debate, but there's certainly been no admission of such from C&D--which means it is all speculative.

I'll save you the 8 second google search and provide the post-mortem here:

Z Meets Wall: We Investigate Why the NISMO Z's Brakes Failed at Lightning Lap - Feature - Car and Driver

Verdict? Lack of air on the brakes--nothing new to anyone who's familiar with the Z. Nothing about the car having been abused. There's also no mention of the car having felt wrong, as you seem to indicate. You can also scope the original article and find the same thing rings true (although you might contend that the below description of the car indicates something was wrong

)

Lightning Lap 2009 - Car Comparison - Feature Article - Page 8

Quote:

Even with enormous grip from its Yokohama Advan Sports, the Z feels uncomfortable and slightly disconnected when pressed. A high-effort shifter fights quick gearchanges, and the 350-hp V-6’s character turns coarse as it runs to redline. We also wondered whether all 350 ponies showed up.

Now, back to the point I was making earlier, let's compare the Z's performance at VIR against another mag test.

Lightning lap:

Mustang GT 3:08.6
370Z : 3:12.00
EXO MR : 3:13.3
Mini Cooper John Cooper Works : 3:17.1
Volkswagen GTI : 3:19.3
Miata 3:29.3

Now, let's take a look at another test--this one with a fresh Z:

The Z still slots in right where you'd expect given the course change and such. You can't make this sort of stuff up! And, since I know that sometimes it is hard to compare numbers, here are the scaled track times, in visual format:

Blue dots are LL, red dots are scaled Grattan times.

My takeaway from these results is that if anyone was going to complain about their car's performance at LL, it should be the poor guys in Miatas...

So, I'm not convinced there is any evidence supporting the claim that the 370Z in the LL test was some sort of oddity--if you have any, I would love to see it.

red6spd · 05-14-2013, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

OK, I will bite, but only because I'm bored without my ZdayZ fix.

Not only have you made this statement no less than four times without providing a source, the lap time deltas are comparable to a number of other tests. Whether the car was abused any differently than any other car in the test (because let's face it, none of these cars were being babied)is subject to debate, but there's certainly been no admission of such from C&D--which means it is all speculative.

I'll save you the 8 second google search and provide the post-mortem here:

Z Meets Wall: We Investigate Why the NISMO Z's Brakes Failed at Lightning Lap - Feature - Car and Driver

Verdict? Lack of air on the brakes--nothing new to anyone who's familiar with the Z. Nothing about the car having been abused. There's also no mention of the car having felt wrong, as you seem to indicate. You can also scope the original article and find the same thing rings true (although you might contend that the below description of the car indicates something was wrong

)

Lightning Lap 2009 - Car Comparison - Feature Article - Page 8

Now, back to the point I was making earlier, let's compare the Z's performance at VIR against another mag test.

Lightning lap:

Mustang GT 3:08.6
370Z : 3:12.00
EXO MR : 3:13.3
Mini Cooper John Cooper Works : 3:17.1
Volkswagen GTI : 3:19.3
Miata 3:29.3

Now, let's take a look at another test--this one with a fresh Z:

The Z still slots in right where you'd expect given the course change and such. You can't make this sort of stuff up! And, since I know that sometimes it is hard to compare numbers, here are the scaled track times, in visual format:

Blue dots are LL, red dots are scaled Grattan times.

My takeaway from these results is that if anyone was going to complain about their car's performance at LL, it should be the poor guys in Miatas...

So, I'm not convinced there is any evidence supporting the claim that the 370Z in the LL test was some sort of oddity--if you have any, I would love to see it.

Why don't you go build a ship in a bottle or something with all the free time on your hands. I honestly have no drive to search the internet like you for 3 year old articles cause I honestly do not care what anyone thinks on this forum but the Z in this test was also tested by its self or with a competitor and the car ran mid to high 5 seconds 0-60 and the quarter in the high 13's. They mentioned just like they did at LL that the car was not running properly.

Red__Zed · 05-14-2013, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red6spd

Why don't you go build a ship in a bottle or something with all the free time on your hands. I honestly have no drive to search the internet like you for 3 year old articles cause I honestly do not care what anyone thinks on this forum but the Z in this test was also tested by its self or with a competitor and the car ran mid to high 5 seconds 0-60 and the quarter in the high 13's. They mentioned just like they did at LL that the car was not running properly.

where was that mentioned?

UNKNOWN_370 · 05-14-2013, 01:57 PM

How did the 2013 brake hosed and oil cooled Nismo do? All this talk about ancient history...

EDIT: Actually,C&D shows too many overall biases on certain brands to even hold them credible. No other mag is as one sided as C&D. I only will read the first drives & long term tests in that mag. Performance TESTS i leave to R&T and MT.

JungleZ · 05-14-2013, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

How did the 2013 brake hosed and oil cooled Nismo do? All this talk about ancient history...

EDIT: Actually,C&D shows too many overall biases on certain brands to even hold them credible. No other mag is as one sided as C&D. I only will read the first drives & long term tests in that mag. Performance TESTS i leave to R&T and MT.

"and the 350-hp V-6’s character turns coarse as it runs to redline. We also wondered whether all 350 ponies showed up."

glad im not the only one who feels that way

UNKNOWN_370 · 05-14-2013, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JungleZ

"and the 350-hp V-6’s character turns coarse as it runs to redline. We also wondered whether all 350 ponies showed up."

glad im not the only one who feels that way

You're input is about as useful as useed toilet paper, Leasee, king of the one-liners.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

If you rely on any magazine for performance test data, you're likely to be disappointed.

Actually I rely on myself. I go by what feels right for me. But I'm talking about who gets closer to the ballpark.

Even top gear has their biases. At the end of the day. It's really which car compliments your personal skill. But from a readers perspective, those magazines give more detailed realistic input than C&D's cool factor reviews.

Lastly, to me, I need time behind a wheel to really know what a car is capable of. The VQ doesn't really even sit in well till somewhere around 15,000-30,000miles depending on you treat it. A lot of instant modders that by 22,000 miles or less are trading trhe car. From my experience VQ's performance is best from 30k to 90k.

370zrider · 05-15-2013, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JungleZ

"and the 350-hp V-6’s character turns coarse as it runs to redline. We also wondered whether all 350 ponies showed up."

glad im not the only one who feels that way

my thoughts about it:
- Engine management is too mild, it should be more aggressive like VTECs
- The 370z is too heavy.

Red__Zed · 05-14-2013, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

How did the 2013 brake hosed and oil cooled Nismo do? All this talk about ancient history...

EDIT: Actually,C&D shows too many overall biases on certain brands to even hold them credible. No other mag is as one sided as C&D. I only will read the first drives & long term tests in that mag. Performance TESTS i leave to R&T and MT.

If you rely on any magazine for performance test data, you're likely to be disappointed.

b1adesofcha0s · 05-14-2013, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

If you rely on any magazine for performance test data, you're likely to be disappointed.

The only reliable source is Top Gear.

red6spd · 05-14-2013, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

If you rely on any magazine for performance test data, you're likely to be disappointed.

You posted it. They said it did not feel like the car brought all 350 ponies. Meaning it felt slower then it really should be.

05-14-2013, 01:57 PM	#9 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14859	How did the 2013 brake hosed and oil cooled Nismo do? All this talk about ancient history... EDIT: Actually,C&D shows too many overall biases on certain brands to even hold them credible. No other mag is as one sided as C&D. I only will read the first drives & long term tests in that mag. Performance TESTS i leave to R&T and MT. __________________ Favorite Quote. "I'm not gonna kill you... I'm just gonna Bash Your Face In" Jack Nicholson-"The Shining". 1980 Last edited by UNKNOWN_370; 05-14-2013 at 02:04 PM.

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