2013 Car and Driver Lightning Lap

JungleZ · 05-14-2013, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

How did the 2013 brake hosed and oil cooled Nismo do? All this talk about ancient history...

EDIT: Actually,C&D shows too many overall biases on certain brands to even hold them credible. No other mag is as one sided as C&D. I only will read the first drives & long term tests in that mag. Performance TESTS i leave to R&T and MT.

"and the 350-hp V-6’s character turns coarse as it runs to redline. We also wondered whether all 350 ponies showed up."

glad im not the only one who feels that way

red6spd · 05-14-2013, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

OK, I will bite, but only because I'm bored without my ZdayZ fix.

Not only have you made this statement no less than four times without providing a source, the lap time deltas are comparable to a number of other tests. Whether the car was abused any differently than any other car in the test (because let's face it, none of these cars were being babied)is subject to debate, but there's certainly been no admission of such from C&D--which means it is all speculative.

I'll save you the 8 second google search and provide the post-mortem here:

Z Meets Wall: We Investigate Why the NISMO Z's Brakes Failed at Lightning Lap - Feature - Car and Driver

Verdict? Lack of air on the brakes--nothing new to anyone who's familiar with the Z. Nothing about the car having been abused. There's also no mention of the car having felt wrong, as you seem to indicate. You can also scope the original article and find the same thing rings true (although you might contend that the below description of the car indicates something was wrong

)

Lightning Lap 2009 - Car Comparison - Feature Article - Page 8

Now, back to the point I was making earlier, let's compare the Z's performance at VIR against another mag test.

Lightning lap:

Mustang GT 3:08.6
370Z : 3:12.00
EXO MR : 3:13.3
Mini Cooper John Cooper Works : 3:17.1
Volkswagen GTI : 3:19.3
Miata 3:29.3

Now, let's take a look at another test--this one with a fresh Z:

The Z still slots in right where you'd expect given the course change and such. You can't make this sort of stuff up! And, since I know that sometimes it is hard to compare numbers, here are the scaled track times, in visual format:

Blue dots are LL, red dots are scaled Grattan times.

My takeaway from these results is that if anyone was going to complain about their car's performance at LL, it should be the poor guys in Miatas...

So, I'm not convinced there is any evidence supporting the claim that the 370Z in the LL test was some sort of oddity--if you have any, I would love to see it.

Why don't you go build a ship in a bottle or something with all the free time on your hands. I honestly have no drive to search the internet like you for 3 year old articles cause I honestly do not care what anyone thinks on this forum but the Z in this test was also tested by its self or with a competitor and the car ran mid to high 5 seconds 0-60 and the quarter in the high 13's. They mentioned just like they did at LL that the car was not running properly.

m4a1mustang · 05-14-2013, 02:33 PM

You fgts should be arguing about this at ZDayZ with me.

red6spd · 05-14-2013, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

You fgts should be arguing about this at ZDayZ with me.

Next year I'm coming down 2 weeks in advance lol. I miss that place so much.

m4a1mustang · 05-14-2013, 02:37 PM

It's so nice being here early. Got in on Sunday evening. Monday was really quiet. Today is still quiet but there are a few more Z folks here. They should really start rolling in Wednesday and Thursday.

Did the Cherohala Skyway loop today. That was a lot of fun.

Red__Zed · 05-14-2013, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red6spd

Why don't you go build a ship in a bottle or something with all the free time on your hands. I honestly have no drive to search the internet like you for 3 year old articles cause I honestly do not care what anyone thinks on this forum but the Z in this test was also tested by its self or with a competitor and the car ran mid to high 5 seconds 0-60 and the quarter in the high 13's. They mentioned just like they did at LL that the car was not running properly.

where was that mentioned?

Red__Zed · 05-14-2013, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

How did the 2013 brake hosed and oil cooled Nismo do? All this talk about ancient history...

EDIT: Actually,C&D shows too many overall biases on certain brands to even hold them credible. No other mag is as one sided as C&D. I only will read the first drives & long term tests in that mag. Performance TESTS i leave to R&T and MT.

If you rely on any magazine for performance test data, you're likely to be disappointed.

b1adesofcha0s · 05-14-2013, 02:52 PM

Someone trying to backup their comments with facts and logic? We can't have that nonsense in here!

b1adesofcha0s · 05-14-2013, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

If you rely on any magazine for performance test data, you're likely to be disappointed.

The only reliable source is Top Gear.

red6spd · 05-14-2013, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

If you rely on any magazine for performance test data, you're likely to be disappointed.

You posted it. They said it did not feel like the car brought all 350 ponies. Meaning it felt slower then it really should be.

Red__Zed · 05-14-2013, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red6spd

You posted it. They said it did not feel like the car brought all 350 ponies. Meaning it felt slower then it really should be.

Meaning it felt slower than a 350hp car should.

UNKNOWN_370 · 05-14-2013, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JungleZ

"and the 350-hp V-6’s character turns coarse as it runs to redline. We also wondered whether all 350 ponies showed up."

glad im not the only one who feels that way

You're input is about as useful as useed toilet paper, Leasee, king of the one-liners.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

If you rely on any magazine for performance test data, you're likely to be disappointed.

Actually I rely on myself. I go by what feels right for me. But I'm talking about who gets closer to the ballpark.

Even top gear has their biases. At the end of the day. It's really which car compliments your personal skill. But from a readers perspective, those magazines give more detailed realistic input than C&D's cool factor reviews.

Lastly, to me, I need time behind a wheel to really know what a car is capable of. The VQ doesn't really even sit in well till somewhere around 15,000-30,000miles depending on you treat it. A lot of instant modders that by 22,000 miles or less are trading trhe car. From my experience VQ's performance is best from 30k to 90k.

UNKNOWN_370 · 05-14-2013, 08:03 PM

I'm just going to say this. How I feel about the Z as a performance vehicle.

Do I love the overall package? Yes.
Is it flawed for my expectations? Both yes and no.

As an individual car, I believe the Z needs to be more. Where I disagree with most is when the comparisons from other cars come in. The only legit comparisons really are the Cayman S and Corvette. Not because of price... But because of expectations. Not that i expect the Z to be as good as the others. But meet 8 to 9/10yths of both cars expectations...

Does the Z do that? Yes. So why does it need to be improved?

Well, the car could have been better balanced and weighed less. The VQ37 should have been downsized this gen, but people didnt realize they wanted that till the FRS hype. So i don't fault Nissan in that either... They ga e customers exactly what they wanted out of the 350z. And when the people got it, they shytted all over it.

Biggest mistakes:
No first yr oil cooler
No second year brake cooling for both Nismo and sport
No upgraded radio on all base models.

3 stupid things nissan neglected imho.

But as an individual machine. The car is still fun. I expect and hope improvements will make it handle more porsche like and turbo (hopefully) will give it some of that vette style torque (of course not as strong but if its stronger than the strong ATS torque in feel. I'll take it)

I love my z and hope to FI it after me and the wife get in a house. And by the third model year. I may buy the Z35, C6 camaro or Even a C7 vette? We'll see? Till then. My skill and the Z seem to go hand in hand.

I'm not needing a quieter cabin. And I'm not too shabby in the twisties and corners. I surprise my friends with more powerful cars than mine, how i could hang, sooo. I'm personally happy.

Still can't wait to see improvements happen.

Did nissan piss me off with not addressing issues appropiately. Yes to the point of borderline fury.
Did that experience make me hate my car or want to trade it. No, the Z is still far above average in performance.

I dont compare it to 420hp cars either so im even happier. Maybe i'll add one of those 420hp cars to sit next to my Z if i dont like the Z35.

Life goes on, and im still loving my Z.

JungleZ · 05-14-2013, 10:07 PM

in summary, the Ford Mustang GT 5.0 Costs less,is faster and handles almost as good as an M3 on a track. Take Notes Nissan

m4a1mustang · 05-14-2013, 10:12 PM

I drove Shado's Z06 today. Big mistake. Someone give me $50k.

05-14-2013, 02:33 PM	#168 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	You fgts should be arguing about this at ZDayZ with me. b1adesofcha0s and ZMan8 like this. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

05-14-2013, 02:37 PM	#170 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	It's so nice being here early. Got in on Sunday evening. Monday was really quiet. Today is still quiet but there are a few more Z folks here. They should really start rolling in Wednesday and Thursday. Did the Cherohala Skyway loop today. That was a lot of fun. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

05-14-2013, 02:52 PM	#173 (permalink)
b1adesofcha0s A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: MD Posts: 40,963 Drives: HypeTrain Choo Choo! Rep Power: 141	Someone trying to backup their comments with facts and logic? We can't have that nonsense in here! m4a1mustang likes this. __________________ Project: b1adeZmobile (2009 370Z) \| Uprev Tune by AAM Competition \| Berk Exhaust Project: b1adeZmobile 2.0 (2014 C7 Z51) \| Corsa Xtreme Exhaust

05-14-2013, 08:03 PM	#178 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14857	I'm just going to say this. How I feel about the Z as a performance vehicle. Do I love the overall package? Yes. Is it flawed for my expectations? Both yes and no. As an individual car, I believe the Z needs to be more. Where I disagree with most is when the comparisons from other cars come in. The only legit comparisons really are the Cayman S and Corvette. Not because of price... But because of expectations. Not that i expect the Z to be as good as the others. But meet 8 to 9/10yths of both cars expectations... Does the Z do that? Yes. So why does it need to be improved? Well, the car could have been better balanced and weighed less. The VQ37 should have been downsized this gen, but people didnt realize they wanted that till the FRS hype. So i don't fault Nissan in that either... They ga e customers exactly what they wanted out of the 350z. And when the people got it, they shytted all over it. Biggest mistakes: No first yr oil cooler No second year brake cooling for both Nismo and sport No upgraded radio on all base models. 3 stupid things nissan neglected imho. But as an individual machine. The car is still fun. I expect and hope improvements will make it handle more porsche like and turbo (hopefully) will give it some of that vette style torque (of course not as strong but if its stronger than the strong ATS torque in feel. I'll take it) I love my z and hope to FI it after me and the wife get in a house. And by the third model year. I may buy the Z35, C6 camaro or Even a C7 vette? We'll see? Till then. My skill and the Z seem to go hand in hand. I'm not needing a quieter cabin. And I'm not too shabby in the twisties and corners. I surprise my friends with more powerful cars than mine, how i could hang, sooo. I'm personally happy. Still can't wait to see improvements happen. Did nissan piss me off with not addressing issues appropiately. Yes to the point of borderline fury. Did that experience make me hate my car or want to trade it. No, the Z is still far above average in performance. I dont compare it to 420hp cars either so im even happier. Maybe i'll add one of those 420hp cars to sit next to my Z if i dont like the Z35. Life goes on, and im still loving my Z. __________________ Favorite Quote. "I'm not gonna kill you... I'm just gonna Bash Your Face In" Jack Nicholson-"The Shining". 1980

05-14-2013, 10:12 PM	#180 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	I drove Shado's Z06 today. Big mistake. Someone give me $50k. b1adesofcha0s and ZMan8 like this. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

05-14-2013, 10:07 PM	#179 (permalink)
JungleZ Banned Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: orange county,ca Posts: 652 Drives: leased base z... Rep Power: 0	in summary, the Ford Mustang GT 5.0 Costs less,is faster and handles almost as good as an M3 on a track. Take Notes Nissan

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