2011 Mustang 5.0 Turbo

Sibze · 08-09-2010, 02:27 PM

Sibze · 08-09-2010, 02:39 PM

Hey mrcardio, what are you wearing?

mrcardio · 08-09-2010, 03:05 PM

BRE Nissan 370Z & Datsun 240Z - Car News - RoadandTrack.com

"The BRE Tribute car is a Nissan 370Z built by Stillen essentially to the SCCA’s T2 class rules. As such, it’s not overly tweaked. It has a gutted interior and a cage, plus race seats and belts. The car started out as a 2009 Touring Sport model, to which Nismo bodywork, wheels and shocks were added, the last teamed with Eibach springs that lower the car a bit. Stillen anti-roll bars are fitted to the car front and rear, and the 4-cam 3.7-liter V-6 is untouched internally. It is, however, stripped of its catalytic converter and fitted with a Stillen cat-back exhaust, a reflashed ECU, a Nissan Motorsports oil cooler, an aluminum flywheel and a heavy-duty clutch. Power is in the neighborhood of 350 bhp, and stock brakes (with braided stainless-steel lines and Hawk pads) handle stopping chores. The car also had a stock viscous limited-slip differential, although Nissan plans to fit the car with a tougher clutch-type LSD from Nissan Comp soon.

Second session in the car, with all driver aids turned off, I’m having more fun. It’s hot, over 100 degrees, and I’m keeping an eye on oil temps as I continue to be impressed with how well the new Z hides its 3300-lb. curb weight and laps with no apparent vices. It’s clearly better damped than a stock Z. Toward the end of the session, though, I notice more inside rear wheelspin on corner exit, an indicator that the limited-slip diff was not working well. Turns out that differential cooler hadn’t been installed on the car yet, and our lapping on a hot day proved too much for the diff. Our best lap of 1 min. 55.53 sec. would have been considerably better had the car been on Hoosiers and fitted with the limited-slip diff from Nismo, with a remote cooler."

phelan · 08-09-2010, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrcardio

BRE Nissan 370Z & Datsun 240Z - Car News - RoadandTrack.com

"The BRE Tribute car is a Nissan 370Z built by Stillen essentially to the SCCA’s T2 class rules. As such, it’s not overly tweaked. It has a gutted interior and a cage, plus race seats and belts. The car started out as a 2009 Touring Sport model, to which Nismo bodywork, wheels and shocks were added, the last teamed with Eibach springs that lower the car a bit. Stillen anti-roll bars are fitted to the car front and rear, and the 4-cam 3.7-liter V-6 is untouched internally. It is, however, stripped of its catalytic converter and fitted with a Stillen cat-back exhaust, a reflashed ECU, a Nissan Motorsports oil cooler, an aluminum flywheel and a heavy-duty clutch. Power is in the neighborhood of 350 bhp, and stock brakes (with braided stainless-steel lines and Hawk pads) handle stopping chores. The car also had a stock viscous limited-slip differential, although Nissan plans to fit the car with a tougher clutch-type LSD from Nissan Comp soon.

Second session in the car, with all driver aids turned off, I’m having more fun. It’s hot, over 100 degrees, and I’m keeping an eye on oil temps as I continue to be impressed with how well the new Z hides its 3300-lb. curb weight and laps with no apparent vices. It’s clearly better damped than a stock Z. Toward the end of the session, though, I notice more inside rear wheelspin on corner exit, an indicator that the limited-slip diff was not working well. Turns out that differential cooler hadn’t been installed on the car yet, and our lapping on a hot day proved too much for the diff. Our best lap of 1 min. 55.53 sec. would have been considerably better had the car been on Hoosiers and fitted with the limited-slip diff from Nismo, with a remote cooler."

That entire article refers to the BRE Tribute car that has the listed modifications. Nissan I'm sure will support the car build by providing a better than stock LSD. It is, after all, a tribute car, and I think it would serve the company well to have a good, recognizable Z like that.

However, the article says nothing about rolling that onto new model Zs on a go-forward basis. Go ahead, read it again. I'll wait.

...

Just because it's good on a race car, or a 'tribute car' as they call it, doesn't mean it's a decision Nissan will make on the regular Zs. Most drivers will NOT push the car to the limits and feel the necessity of an upgraded LSD. So why bother? People will be paying for a part that they cannot take full advantage of. The benefits of a better LSD does not quantify the additional cost required from a corporate standpoint. I will be VERY surprised if Nissan is willing to increase the Z's already hefty price to accommodate a new LSD. It's just not a practical decision to make right now.

mrcardio · 08-09-2010, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phelan

That entire article refers to the BRE Tribute car that has the listed modifications. Nissan I'm sure will support the car build by providing a better than stock LSD. It is, after all, a tribute car, and I think it would serve the company well to have a good, recognizable Z like that.

However, the article says nothing about rolling that onto new model Zs on a go-forward basis. Go ahead, read it again. I'll wait.

...

Just because it's good on a race car, or a 'tribute car' as they call it, doesn't mean it's a decision Nissan will make on the regular Zs. Most drivers will NOT push the car to the limits and feel the necessity of an upgraded LSD. So why bother? People will be paying for a part that they cannot take full advantage of. The benefits of a better LSD does not quantify the additional cost required from a corporate standpoint. I will be VERY surprised if Nissan is willing to increase the Z's already hefty price to accommodate a new LSD. It's just not a practical decision to make right now.

Okay, now it's HUGELY apparent you're terrified of the possibility of Nissan improving the 370z! Nissan and other manufactures learn through these types of experiences and new / better technologies often make their way into the production car as a result. Besides, it’s not like the Z in the article was a full blown race car or anything. The bottom line is that Nissan is aware that the current LSD is less than adequate for much more than cursing the blvd. And it's not just the LSD but several other aspects of the car that can use improvement.

Sibze · 08-09-2010, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrcardio

Okay, now it's HUGELY apparent you're terrified of the possible of Nissan improving the 370z! Nissan and other manufactures learn through these types of experiences and new / better technologies often make their way into the production car as a result. Besides, it’s not like the Z in the article was a full blown race car or anything. The bottom line is that Nissan is aware that the current LSD is less than adequate for much more than cursing the blvd.

I have nightmares about the getting better! I then wake up and scream. I also have the shakes and cold sweats

theDreamer · 08-09-2010, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrcardio

Okay, now it's HUGELY apparent you're terrified of the possible of Nissan improving the 370z! Nissan and other manufactures learn through these types of experiences and new / better technologies often make their way into the production car as a result. Besides, it’s not like the Z in the article was a full blown race car or anything. The bottom line is that Nissan is aware that the current LSD is less than adequate for much more than cursing the blvd.

You do know that Nissan also offers the car without the LSD right?
Nissan is well aware of making changes for this car. The 350z had very good brakes, but guess what? People were unhappy with the amount of noise and dust created so with the 370z they backed off on the pads and made them more "street" friendly. Same thing with a lot of other items that people wish they would upgrade from factory but Nissan over the years have come to want to please the majority not the minority. Nothing wrong with this, gives the chance for those of us who want to put better parts on our car not overpay from factory for items we do not need or want, or feel we can get better elsewhere.

mrcardio · 08-09-2010, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theDreamer

You do know that Nissan also offers the car without the LSD right?
Nissan is well aware of making changes for this car. The 350z had very good brakes, but guess what? People were unhappy with the amount of noise and dust created so with the 370z they backed off on the pads and made them more "street" friendly. Same thing with a lot of other items that people wish they would upgrade from factory but Nissan over the years have come to want to please the majority not the minority. Nothing wrong with this, gives the chance for those of us who want to put better parts on our car not overpay from factory for items we do not need or want, or feel we can get better elsewhere.

You're sort of going off on the tangent now...

The point is this - The 370z is supposedly a "sports car" right? A sports car should be as sports car does. The current viscous LSD, oil cooling unit, and to a lesser extent brake pads (not really a big deal) aren't up to sports car specs by any stretch of the imagination. Yes of course you can void your warranty and go after market but that in many ways defeats the purpose of purchasing a new car. I really want to like the car and in many ways I do but I'm hoping Nissan ups the ante and improves the weak areas even if it does cost me a bit more.

Otherwise, I'll just have to look into something else. If I wanted an automobile with boulevard cruiser spec components I'd be looking at a G37 or something. But I'm pretty confident Nissan will come through. Skid pad, braking, slalom, figure eight figures etc are one thing but being able to sustain that performance is what is much more important.

theDreamer · 08-09-2010, 03:09 PM

So I was unable to visit Fast Lane last week to check this car out, but I might get to see it soon as I have been informed of a few Mustang meets that I may attend and they might bring this car out (one event is a 1/4 mile night).

Sibze · 08-09-2010, 03:11 PM

He didn't answer my question

phelan · 08-09-2010, 03:43 PM

Good lord, think about it from a COST standpoint already. I tried to point that out to you before, and you don't listen. You must be an engineer or something because you get your head wrapped up in all the technological details, and forget there is still a FINANCIAL aspect of designing and manufacturing any type of hardware.

Do you honestly think that a race-ready LSD will make its way to the masses? It is a VERY SMALL percentage of people in the world who will push the car to its limit, no matter a Z or a Ferrari. To those people, yes, the LSD will make them very happy, and they will pony up for the additional parts. I'm sure you're one of those people who would love to see this, considering you live your life a quarter-mile at a time.

To the rest of the masses who use a car to go from point A to point B, why do they care that they get a race-ready LSD? How does it affect their drive down a crowded freeway to get to work? The simple answer is IT DOES NOT. Would you buy a part that you will never get full value for? I doubt it, and I think the average and sensible driver would do away with it if it can save them some money. Especially with the economy gone (and continuing to go) to Hell.

Fact of the matter is, Nissan has already performed a cost-benefit trade study on the Z, and has determined the car is good enough as-is to support the biggest market it possibly can, from the low-end 'looking for a nice new car with enough fast out of the box' all the way to the top 'i'm going to make 1000hp with this thing'. Also, one of the last great things the Z has going for it is its overall value for the money, and even now the original designer thinks it's too expensive already. You start putting all this excess technology the typical driver does not need, you unnecessarily drive the cost point of the car up, and alienate buyers who might have bought for a couple thousand cheaper, all the while cheapening the legacy of the Nissan Z.

Again, car manufacturers are looking to please the majority of buyers. You want specialized? Go get yourself a damn Ferrari already.

And before you even start spewing that I'm afraid of the Z getting upgraded - I'm sure the next-generation Z will have some new tech or whatnot. I understand that. I look forward to new technology in future cars. But the 370Z was JUST released in 2009. It is far too early to be shelving the design already, so I don't expect to see anything happening for another few years at the minimum. And even then I will not love my Z any less - it already brings a smile to my face everyday, I can't fathom why a few nuts and bolts would change that in the future.

chewonyou · 08-10-2010, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phelan

Good lord, think about it from a COST standpoint already. I tried to point that out to you before, and you don't listen. You must be an engineer or something because you get your head wrapped up in all the technological details, and forget there is still a FINANCIAL aspect of designing and manufacturing any type of hardware.

Do you honestly think that a race-ready LSD will make its way to the masses? It is a VERY SMALL percentage of people in the world who will push the car to its limit, no matter a Z or a Ferrari. To those people, yes, the LSD will make them very happy, and they will pony up for the additional parts. I'm sure you're one of those people who would love to see this, considering you live your life a quarter-mile at a time.

To the rest of the masses who use a car to go from point A to point B, why do they care that they get a race-ready LSD? How does it affect their drive down a crowded freeway to get to work? The simple answer is IT DOES NOT. Would you buy a part that you will never get full value for? I doubt it, and I think the average and sensible driver would do away with it if it can save them some money. Especially with the economy gone (and continuing to go) to Hell.

Fact of the matter is, Nissan has already performed a cost-benefit trade study on the Z, and has determined the car is good enough as-is to support the biggest market it possibly can, from the low-end 'looking for a nice new car with enough fast out of the box' all the way to the top 'i'm going to make 1000hp with this thing'. Also, one of the last great things the Z has going for it is its overall value for the money, and even now the original designer thinks it's too expensive already. You start putting all this excess technology the typical driver does not need, you unnecessarily drive the cost point of the car up, and alienate buyers who might have bought for a couple thousand cheaper, all the while cheapening the legacy of the Nissan Z.

Again, car manufacturers are looking to please the majority of buyers. You want specialized? Go get yourself a damn Ferrari already.

And before you even start spewing that I'm afraid of the Z getting upgraded - I'm sure the next-generation Z will have some new tech or whatnot. I understand that. I look forward to new technology in future cars. But the 370Z was JUST released in 2009. It is far too early to be shelving the design already, so I don't expect to see anything happening for another few years at the minimum. And even then I will not love my Z any less - it already brings a smile to my face everyday, I can't fathom why a few nuts and bolts would change that in the future.

Whether a car requires a redesign is not really dependent on how old the design is, it is dependent on how competitive the market is.

As for the rest of your post, if you're talking about the 370z being good enough and practical enough, how does it realistically compare to the '11 Mustang GT.

A '11 Mustang GT 6MT (HID, Security, Brembo, gears) is still cheaper than a '10 370z 6MT Sport + Touring by a long shot. It is also far more practical for everyday driving as well.

Seems like Nissan has itself boxed into a corner from it's competitors. It's going to be tough to keep the price down while at the same time introducing improvements that will make it competitive with the segment.

phelan · 08-11-2010, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chewonyou

1)Whether a car requires a redesign is not really dependent on how old the design is, it is dependent on how competitive the market is.

2)As for the rest of your post, if you're talking about the 370z being good enough and practical enough, how does it realistically compare to the '11 Mustang GT.

A '11 Mustang GT 6MT (HID, Security, Brembo, gears) is still cheaper than a '10 370z 6MT Sport + Touring by a long shot. It is also far more practical for everyday driving as well.

3Seems like Nissan has itself boxed into a corner from it's competitors. It's going to be tough to keep the price down while at the same time introducing improvements that will make it competitive with the segment.

1) All the more reason to keep the current design for a while. Let's face it, there isn't a lot of 'free money' going around, so sports cars aren't exactly flying off the lot. I think we'll have the Z34 design lasting us a few years, so Nissan recovers its .

2) Look, doing a comparison between the 370Z and the Mustang is a debate for the magazines. You can look at numbers, times, and available options all you want. Ultimately the decision you make is based on your own SUBJECTIVE opinions. What I think is important may differ from your own viewpoint, which is why I've been saying for a while that you need to sit in all the cars you're considering, take it out for a drive, and feel for yourself. This comparison stuff written by someone else is BS.

For the record I'm not trying to knock on the Mustang or anything. I realize it's a GREAT car for the price, and I think I'd be pretty happy if I had one. But in my opinion it's not a car I'm going to drive the Z back to the lot and go to the nearest sales rep to say "gimme that mustang you have in the front lot NOW".

3) Yeah, the way things stand, Nissan will have a beast of a time with the new Zs. It's always been a niche car, but now it's getting a bit...more so.

BACK TO THE MUSTANGS!

m4a1mustang · 08-09-2010, 04:11 PM

Basically the LSD viscously slips the differential in a limited fashion, so it's pretty fast. Probably adds about 20hp or so at the flywheel since it gets rid of the parasitic drag of the wheels for the most part. Couple it with some Miata doors and you'll be flying, literally.

Pharmacist · 08-09-2010, 04:51 PM

this thread has gone way off topic. can we go back to bashing mustangs?

08-09-2010, 03:05 PM	#3 (permalink)
mrcardio Base Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Central Florida Posts: 219 Drives: 08 MS3 Rep Power: 17	BRE Nissan 370Z & Datsun 240Z - Car News - RoadandTrack.com "The BRE Tribute car is a Nissan 370Z built by Stillen essentially to the SCCA’s T2 class rules. As such, it’s not overly tweaked. It has a gutted interior and a cage, plus race seats and belts. The car started out as a 2009 Touring Sport model, to which Nismo bodywork, wheels and shocks were added, the last teamed with Eibach springs that lower the car a bit. Stillen anti-roll bars are fitted to the car front and rear, and the 4-cam 3.7-liter V-6 is untouched internally. It is, however, stripped of its catalytic converter and fitted with a Stillen cat-back exhaust, a reflashed ECU, a Nissan Motorsports oil cooler, an aluminum flywheel and a heavy-duty clutch. Power is in the neighborhood of 350 bhp, and stock brakes (with braided stainless-steel lines and Hawk pads) handle stopping chores. The car also had a stock viscous limited-slip differential, although Nissan plans to fit the car with a tougher clutch-type LSD from Nissan Comp soon. Second session in the car, with all driver aids turned off, I’m having more fun. It’s hot, over 100 degrees, and I’m keeping an eye on oil temps as I continue to be impressed with how well the new Z hides its 3300-lb. curb weight and laps with no apparent vices. It’s clearly better damped than a stock Z. Toward the end of the session, though, I notice more inside rear wheelspin on corner exit, an indicator that the limited-slip diff was not working well. Turns out that differential cooler hadn’t been installed on the car yet, and our lapping on a hot day proved too much for the diff. Our best lap of 1 min. 55.53 sec. would have been considerably better had the car been on Hoosiers and fitted with the limited-slip diff from Nismo, with a remote cooler." __________________ ‹^› ‹(•¿•)› ‹^› Last edited by mrcardio; 08-09-2010 at 03:08 PM.

08-09-2010, 03:09 PM	#9 (permalink)
theDreamer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 30,879 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 4212	So I was unable to visit Fast Lane last week to check this car out, but I might get to see it soon as I have been informed of a few Mustang meets that I may attend and they might bring this car out (one event is a 1/4 mile night). __________________ theDreamer's Z // Fast Intentions // Uprev // GTM // HKS // TEIN theDreamer's Silvia // URAS // GREDDY Houston Zs // Facebook // Twitter // Instagram

08-09-2010, 03:43 PM	#11 (permalink)
phelan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: CA Age: 40 Posts: 9,513 Drives: Scoobaroo Rep Power: 3408	Good lord, think about it from a COST standpoint already. I tried to point that out to you before, and you don't listen. You must be an engineer or something because you get your head wrapped up in all the technological details, and forget there is still a FINANCIAL aspect of designing and manufacturing any type of hardware. Do you honestly think that a race-ready LSD will make its way to the masses? It is a VERY SMALL percentage of people in the world who will push the car to its limit, no matter a Z or a Ferrari. To those people, yes, the LSD will make them very happy, and they will pony up for the additional parts. I'm sure you're one of those people who would love to see this, considering you live your life a quarter-mile at a time. To the rest of the masses who use a car to go from point A to point B, why do they care that they get a race-ready LSD? How does it affect their drive down a crowded freeway to get to work? The simple answer is IT DOES NOT. Would you buy a part that you will never get full value for? I doubt it, and I think the average and sensible driver would do away with it if it can save them some money. Especially with the economy gone (and continuing to go) to Hell. Fact of the matter is, Nissan has already performed a cost-benefit trade study on the Z, and has determined the car is good enough as-is to support the biggest market it possibly can, from the low-end 'looking for a nice new car with enough fast out of the box' all the way to the top 'i'm going to make 1000hp with this thing'. Also, one of the last great things the Z has going for it is its overall value for the money, and even now the original designer thinks it's too expensive already. You start putting all this excess technology the typical driver does not need, you unnecessarily drive the cost point of the car up, and alienate buyers who might have bought for a couple thousand cheaper, all the while cheapening the legacy of the Nissan Z. Again, car manufacturers are looking to please the majority of buyers. You want specialized? Go get yourself a damn Ferrari already. And before you even start spewing that I'm afraid of the Z getting upgraded - I'm sure the next-generation Z will have some new tech or whatnot. I understand that. I look forward to new technology in future cars. But the 370Z was JUST released in 2009. It is far too early to be shelving the design already, so I don't expect to see anything happening for another few years at the minimum. And even then I will not love my Z any less - it already brings a smile to my face everyday, I can't fathom why a few nuts and bolts would change that in the future. __________________ 凛 ('Rin') - 2009 Nissan 370Z With silence comes peace. With peace comes freedom. With freedom comes silence.

08-09-2010, 04:11 PM	#14 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6964	Basically the LSD viscously slips the differential in a limited fashion, so it's pretty fast. Probably adds about 20hp or so at the flywheel since it gets rid of the parasitic drag of the wheels for the most part. Couple it with some Miata doors and you'll be flying, literally. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

08-09-2010, 04:51 PM	#15 (permalink)
Pharmacist A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 1,249 Drives: 09 370z Sport 6MT Rep Power: 20	this thread has gone way off topic. can we go back to bashing mustangs? __________________ 2009 370z Sport Touring/Nismo shift Knob/Z1 motorsports 34 row oil cooler

08-09-2010, 02:27 PM	#1 (permalink)
Sibze A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 16,202 Drives: In your way Rep Power: 65

08-09-2010, 02:39 PM	#2 (permalink)
Sibze A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 16,202 Drives: In your way Rep Power: 65	Hey mrcardio, what are you wearing?

08-09-2010, 03:11 PM	#10 (permalink)
Sibze A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 16,202 Drives: In your way Rep Power: 65	He didn't answer my question

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