C8 mid-engine corvette. GM loves their people.

ZCanadian · 10-23-2019, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRiZO

I like "slow" sports cars. It's more fun to be able to drive a car than to have to baby the car everywhere. Or, it's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow. I think the Z balances that line pretty well.

M iata
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Having seen Miatas pass Caymans on track, I completely agree with your comments.

Driving a slow car fast is an accomplishment. Learning to do that is an education. Skills that you can transfer to more powerful vehicles as your career progresses

Driving a fast car fast is inevitable, and proves nothing about the capability of the driver. In fact, horsepower can do a lot to hide driver mistakes (it can also do a lot to cause small mistakes to become big crashes as countless YouTube videos will attest).

If you can wring everything out of Miata first, then you're going to be both safe and blisteringly fast in something with greater power (even despite its extra weight). Yeah, the Corvette, or Camaro, or GTR will blast down the straight way quicker, but "straights are for fast cars, corners are for fast drivers", and a (good, like the MX5) lightweight sports car with someone capable behind the wheel, can typically make up tons of time in the corners. So, it all depends on the track. If you spend time on the Nurburgring, forget it. My home track, OTOH, is a perfect example of one where low horsepower cars well driven can equal some much more powerful metal.

It's also more fun to go through all of the gears on the street (typical of a "slow car"), than to be limited to third or lower by speeds and traffic even on the highway. I have friends with 458's and MacLarens who cannot legally ever get above 3rd gear!

The fact that Rob Wilson has used a Vauxall Astra for years to teach more than half of the drivers on the Formula 1 grid how to go faster, is all the proof that I need to confirm this thesis!

UNKNOWN_370 · 10-23-2019, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZCanadian

Having seen Miatas pass Caymans on track, I completely agree with your comments.

Driving a slow car fast is an accomplishment. Learning to do that is an education. Skills that you can transfer to more powerful vehicles as your career progresses

Driving a fast car fast is inevitable, and proves nothing about the capability of the driver. In fact, horsepower can do a lot to hide driver mistakes (it can also do a lot to cause small mistakes to become big crashes as countless YouTube videos will attest).

If you can wring everything out of Miata first, then you're going to be both safe and blisteringly fast in something with greater power (even despite its extra weight). Yeah, the Corvette, or Camaro, or GTR will blast down the straight way quicker, but "straights are for fast cars, corners are for fast drivers", and a (good, like the MX5) lightweight sports car with someone capable behind the wheel, can typically make up tons of time in the corners. So, it all depends on the track. If you spend time on the Nurburgring, forget it. My home track, OTOH, is a perfect example of one where low horsepower cars well driven can equal some much more powerful metal.

It's also more fun to go through all of the gears on the street (typical of a "slow car"), than to be limited to third or lower by speeds and traffic even on the highway. I have friends with 458's and MacLarens who cannot legally ever get above 3rd gear!

The fact that Rob Williams has used a Vauxall Astra for years to teach more than half of the drivers on the Formula 1 grid how to go faster, is all the proof that I need to confirm this thesis!

Real drivers can make anything turn a corner hard and fast. Most people dont like the camaro cuz though it has high g's, its limited view and ultra wide body hamper your confidence.
In my case, when I felt I was dealing with a superior platform. I decided to overcome my own perceived limitations and master its size. Driving my little Z had no real effort for me to drive it hard. I fixed that with the suspension setup and my skills took over.

My camaro, it took two flat tires replacing my right front rim and cracking my underbody shield to confidently hit corners and realize where my right front end was in really tight angles where a car that size shouldnt be.

But since I can feel that suspension is so great I can make that car do little car acrobatics. I learned my cars geometry with hard lessons on a complex track n dead roads But I'm rewarded for it.

The game, is the game. Pick the tool thats best FOR YOU you need to play it. Being the best is just pushing yourself to be that and making the adjustments you have to take to make yourself a better driver! If miata's make you feel like you will be a better driver? Do it!!
But theres more than one way to skin a cat.
Ricky Bobby did it with a cougar in his backseat.

UNKNOWN_370 · 10-23-2019, 07:03 PM

https://www.motor1.com/news/378121/2...est-exclusive/

Analysis as to why MT's dyno is wrong .
Makes sense... but I do know the current gen engines are underrated by about 24hp on average. So I wouldnt be surprised if the vette has more power, though these numbers seem high.

Edit: I am inaccurate a little.

The automatics underrated average is about 16hp, the manuals are higher to about 24hp.

FL 4Motion · 10-24-2019, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

Real drivers can make anything turn a corner hard and fast. Most people dont like the camaro cuz though it has high g's, its limited view and ultra wide body hamper your confidence.
In my case, when I felt I was dealing with a superior platform. I decided to overcome my own perceived limitations and master its size. Driving my little Z had no real effort for me to drive it hard. I fixed that with the suspension setup and my skills took over.

My camaro, it took two flat tires replacing my right front rim and cracking my underbody shield to confidently hit corners and realize where my right front end was in really tight angles where a car that size shouldnt be.

But since I can feel that suspension is so great I can make that car do little car acrobatics. I learned my cars geometry with hard lessons on a complex track n dead roads But I'm rewarded for it.

The game, is the game. Pick the tool thats best FOR YOU you need to play it. Being the best is just pushing yourself to be that and making the adjustments you have to take to make yourself a better driver! If miata's make you feel like you will be a better driver? Do it!!
But theres more than one way to skin a cat.
Ricky Bobby did it with a cougar in his backseat.

It’s not about a Miata making you feel like a better driver, it’s that getting professional instruction in a low hp front engine rwd mt car WILL make you a better driver bc you will improve car control, have more time to understand and correct inputs and learn how to drive smooth and carry speed thru the corners. You’ll also learn how to brake which is equally important.

Spend a couple years, (yes, I said years), doing hpde regularly and then come back and revisit this post, I guarantee you’ll have changed your mind.

ZCanadian · 10-24-2019, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FL 4Motion

It’s not about a Miata making you feel like a better driver, it’s that getting professional instruction in a low hp front engine rwd mt car WILL make you a better driver bc you will improve car control, have more time to understand and correct inputs and learn how to drive smooth and carry speed thru the corners. You’ll also learn how to brake which is equally important.

Spend a couple years, (yes, I said years), doing hpde regularly and then come back and revisit this post, I guarantee you’ll have changed your mind.

100% this.

Even after several years of HPDE days and ride-alongs on the track with experienced drivers, I am truly only just realizing how much I still have to to learn about driving fast. And I've had my license for many, many decades.

Hotrodz · 10-24-2019, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZCanadian

100% this.

Even after several years of HPDE days and ride-alongs on the track with experienced drivers, I am truly only just realizing how much I still have to to learn about driving fast. And I've had my license for many, many decades.

Gonna jump on this bandwagon as I went from participating in HPDE with my boosted Z to a Miata. I am approaching one year in the Miata and I was ten seconds faster at the track I did my first event at last week. Between track time and instruction my confidence and skills have increased. The real deal in learning how to drive a slow car fast is being able to drive the car at its limit once your skills have improved accordingly. In a fast car learning becomes slower once you hit a certain point because pushing a fast car to the limit can be extremely dangerous. I am confident that when I get back into my boosted Z I will be slow but way faster than I was when my motor let go.

What I have witnessed is one of my favorite NASA instructor do (he races spec miata) is jump in the car (Corvette Corvette z06) of another experienced instructor and drive it 3 to 4 seconds faster without pushing it in his mind lol!

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Rusty · 10-24-2019, 08:16 PM

Nothing kills your ego faster then having a car with 150 hp less than you past you in the turns. I hate those fricking Miata's. Pass them down the straights, only to see them pass you in the turns.

I had a ride in one driven by a guy that runs the spec series. He was on the gas sooner, on the brakes much later. It was a learning experience.

10-23-2019, 07:03 PM	#3 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14859	https://www.motor1.com/news/378121/2...est-exclusive/ Analysis as to why MT's dyno is wrong . Makes sense... but I do know the current gen engines are underrated by about 24hp on average. So I wouldnt be surprised if the vette has more power, though these numbers seem high. Edit: I am inaccurate a little. The automatics underrated average is about 16hp, the manuals are higher to about 24hp. __________________ Favorite Quote. "I'm not gonna kill you... I'm just gonna Bash Your Face In" Jack Nicholson-"The Shining". 1980 Last edited by UNKNOWN_370; 10-23-2019 at 07:32 PM.

10-24-2019, 08:16 PM	#7 (permalink)
Rusty Ronin Samurai - Assassin Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 69 Posts: 35,502 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684439	Nothing kills your ego faster then having a car with 150 hp less than you past you in the turns. I hate those fricking Miata's. Pass them down the straights, only to see them pass you in the turns. I had a ride in one driven by a guy that runs the spec series. He was on the gas sooner, on the brakes much later. It was a learning experience. __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

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