It is deception, I think..

NoLaKrewe

So since the knowledge is strong is this thread, I will ask a question.

How do you find out invoice on your specific car? What are the best days of the year to buy a car? Best says of the month? Can you negotiate on prices when ordering a car? If you can negotiate a price on ordering a car, would it be in my best interest to locate a car of my interest and bargain down from there or just order the car I want. Is the knowledge of what fellow forum members well documented in a thread here worth taking to a dealer?

I am just asking as I want a 370z Sport soon and I've seen their stickers go as high as 35 and 36. I've read members get them out the door at 29-31 and I just would like to know how.

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Jordo!

1. Getting invoice can be tricky (Edmunds and/or sites for the car who have already deduced it -- like here -- are an okay source). Someone here may have better ideas...

That in mind, even if you can find it unofficially, the dealership may dismiss the validity -- they won't dismiss the Black Book. I have watched salespersons visibly pale and sweat when they see it.

The Black Book lists official auction values that holds up in bankruptcy court and will list both MSRP and Retail. Get it.

2. Best times: End of MY (especially if a "refresh" is due) as they need to clear inventory. Holidays there are usually sales events (but find out what incentives the dealers are given -- often listed on sites like Edmunds) the "sale" to the consumer may be all bait and switch tactics. Generally if you are buying a car "out of season" (e.g., a sports car in the winter) you have more negotiation power. Taking note of how long a car has sat is good too -- its all about moving inventory for a dealership.

3. Negotiation power. If you know the actual value (or value it is likely to approach based on past MY's) from an authoritative source like the Black Book, there isn't much they can do except say no.

That said, be prepared to storm out. They will almost definitely call you back. If they don't, **** 'em. Let them sit on the car another 6 months as it slowly depreciates. Actually, go ahead and tell them that directly and firmly if you know the car has already been sitting there a while

4. Unfortunately, the only way to ensure you get EXACTLY the car you want is to walk in with a bag of money and not bother haggling. That's great if you are a Jay Leno, and have a cadre of personal shoppers, and not so great otherwise.

Even then, you will always be limited to what a given dealer can get you on short notice (i.e., trading car for car with another dealer) or has in stock. Be flexible enough in what you want to consider whether you are really getting your money's worth (a car is always a terrible, terrible investment, as almost without exception, they steadily lose value every second after they leave the factory).

By way of example, if you want a red car but can get a great deal on a silver one, how much is that color worth to you? You might wait and keep looking. You might decide silver is more to your taste, etc.

But one thing is for sure: You will not close a deal where they lose money. It won't happen. Oh, they'll grumble over how the deal is for less than they wanted, but let's be clear: Whether or not the sales team is "high-fiving" each other after you sign the paper, you can be sure they will not lose money on their deal.

So, arm yourself with as much knowledge (and grit) as possible, and be prepared to play the hardest of hardball.

On the bright side, you might not get the first car you set your eyes on, and, if so, take heart that another one you like will surely come along. Meaning, you have nothing to lose for walking out.

For them, it's their livelihood. They have to woo you, not the other way around.

5. Bring a good friend/significant other/family member who has his or her head on straight. Someone you can trust to drag you away from a bad deal if you falter.

6. Note all the other "dealer fees" and nonsense. That is PURE PROFIT on top of the rest of the PURE PROFIT they made for doing very, very, little. Be mindful of how much the price will shift as you approach "out the door" price. Tax, tags, and title costs are firm, but random dealer fees and the actual price of the car are NOT. Don't agree to a seemingly good deal where they get back the profit they "lost" via ******** fees tacked on. As you approach the final offer -- make sure you are given a clear OTD price with TTT.

I bought a car once and after negotiating a great deal (right at auction value via the Black Book) they suddenly added in another $600 in dealer fees as they drew up the bill of sale. I laughed and asked what they did for that $600? Make photocopies? Bring the car from the back of the lot to the front? They admitted it was pure profit and non-negotiable, so I said, great -- knock another $600 off the price of the car then. And after some grimacing, they did. If they didn't, I'd have walked out. Get the idea.

Happy shopping

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andyj

Great post Jordo thanks! Lots of valuable info here. Car dealers probably want your money more than they want to keep their car, so in a way the buyer has the advantage, within reason of course. With the last new car I bought, I told the dealer my price and made sure they understood that the number was "all in, out the door, including all fees". When we got to the paperwork part, I saw that they had actually lowered the price we agreed to for the car by the amount of the "processing fee", about $400, and then added to fee back in to come to the final price we had agreed to. They really loved their processing fee, I guess.

Jordo--I thought you had to be a dealer to get a subscription to Black Book-
are they available somewhere to the general public? Like you said, you can't be any better prepared than to have the same info the dealer has.

Zoren 370

Informative thread!