My 6MT vs Auto driving impression. Opinions please

VCuomo · 04-30-2012, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

^ But again, that's just adaptability to current environmental/driving parameters, not a long-term "learning the style of the user". The patent is describing in detail loosely the same stuff that I wrote a couple posts above.

Absolutely - I think you and I are making the same point. I linked to the patent to give some "official" proof of that (plus someone else in this thread was asking about documentation).

sonic370 · 04-30-2012, 05:51 PM

Red head or Blondes it's all about choice's...
With the 370 imho it's a win-win either way.....
when people stop and stare and rubber neck you
on the highway i doubt if they are thinking " i wonder if that's a auto or manual"

wstar · 04-30-2012, 02:36 PM

The self-tuning just remembers previous best-fit data, that's all. If you factory-reset the ECU, for example, it has to go back to baseline and then figure out the best spark timing numbers to use given your fuel quality, air density, ambient/coolant temps, etc based on sensor feedback. Once it homes in on the correct values though, you can shut the car off and start it back up the next day and it will be much closer to optimal right off the bat (well, assuming you didn't ship it to another continent with different weather while it was shut off

). Reset the ECU and you're back to square one again.

But people get confused about this. They know the ECU is somewhat adaptable, and they see some effects where hard-vs-soft driving styles lead to a semi-persistent effect when you switch drivers for a few minutes, etc. They start thinking the ECU can really "learn" your driving style, as if it has some internal parameter that goes from 0-100 and measures "how aggressive this dude likes to run the car". It doesn't, AFAIK. It's just adapting to current conditions, and it will re-adapt within minutes if you change the conditions drastically.

cossie1600 · 04-30-2012, 02:39 PM

It just changes the shift points, not anything special. I didnt wantto say anything to ruin some bubbles.....

RiCharlie · 04-30-2012, 03:57 PM

okay everyone..here is the dumbest question of the day...What is the difference ( advantage) between a full standard shift and the paddle shifters on the auto? I have the auto and when i feel like shifting myself I can do it..when I feel like taking a nap,

I put it in full auto and I am good to go..So why would I want a full manual?

ayrton88 · 04-30-2012, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiCharlie

okay everyone..here is the dumbest question of the day...What is the difference ( advantage) between a full standard shift and the paddle shifters on the auto? I have the auto and when i feel like shifting myself I can do it..when I feel like taking a nap,

I put it in full auto and I am good to go..So why would I want a full manual?

There is a huge difference. First of all, your left foot is just as important as your right in getting the car going and shifting gears. There is something satisfying about feeling the clutch start to bite while timing the accelerator perfect. I never tire of it. I just feel so much more in control taking care of all aspects of driving myself. To me it is an advantage...maybe not for everyone.
It is sad to me that so many people don't even know how to drive a stick.

Bucketlist2012 · 04-30-2012, 06:17 PM

Since this is 2012, Automatics have come a long way..

If we were talking the days of the past, you would NEVER see an automatic car on the track...The hesitation with an automatic downshifting is just madness on an older car.

The old days you would downshift an automatic coming up to a turn and then wait......................Then BOOM, it would downshift causing a compression lock up on the rear tires entering the turn....

But the newer cars have come a long way...But I understand some guys must have a manual transmission...No problem with that..

As far as testing the Mercedes, you must test the AMG model to really get the feel...You don't care that it is an automatic...The cars are just crazy fun...

But I am new to the 370Z, and cannot wait to really test the paddles...

I would never buy an automatic older sports car..Now that would suck..

wstar · 04-30-2012, 08:01 PM

We have to have this debate at least once a year month week on this forum anyways lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ayrton88

There is a huge difference. First of all, your left foot is just as important as your right in getting the car going and shifting gears. There is something satisfying about feeling the clutch start to bite while timing the accelerator perfect. I never tire of it. I just feel so much more in control taking care of all aspects of driving myself. To me it is an advantage...maybe not for everyone.
It is sad to me that so many people don't even know how to drive a stick.

I drove a stick for a long time, I know how to work one. I just like this better, at this point in time. I've got 99 other problems to focus on with my driving, and a clutch ain't one

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucketlist2012

Since this is 2012, Automatics have come a long way..

If we were talking the days of the past, you would NEVER see an automatic car on the track...The hesitation with an automatic downshifting is just madness on an older car.

The old days you would downshift an automatic coming up to a turn and then wait......................Then BOOM, it would downshift causing a compression lock up on the rear tires entering the turn....

But the newer cars have come a long way...But I understand some guys must have a manual transmission...No problem with that..

As far as testing the Mercedes, you must test the AMG model to really get the feel...You don't care that it is an automatic...The cars are just crazy fun...

But I am new to the 370Z, and cannot wait to really test the paddles...

I would never buy an automatic older sports car..Now that would suck..

For reference, a couple laps in a 2009 7AT 370Z (all in 3rd and 4th on this track). The 7AT is perfectly track-capable. Far more so than I am yet, in any case. You'll hear some upshift hesistations in the video. That's me shifting late and bouncing into the throttle rev-limiter. User error

Bucketlist2012 · 04-30-2012, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

We have to have this debate at least once a year month week on this forum anyways lol.

I drove a stick for a long time, I know how to work one. I just like this better, at this point in time. I've got 99 other problems to focus on with my driving, and a clutch ain't one

.

For reference, a couple laps in a 2009 7AT 370Z (all in 3rd and 4th on this track). The 7AT is perfectly track-capable. Far more so than I am yet, in any case. You'll hear some upshift hesistations in the video. That's me shifting late and bouncing into the throttle rev-limiter. User error

Very Nice....yes the new Automatics have come a long way...I love it..

wdkwang · 04-30-2012, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

We have to have this debate at least once a year month week on this forum anyways lol.

I drove a stick for a long time, I know how to work one. I just like this better, at this point in time. I've got 99 other problems to focus on with my driving, and a clutch ain't one

.

For reference, a couple laps in a 2009 7AT 370Z (all in 3rd and 4th on this track). The 7AT is perfectly track-capable. Far more so than I am yet, in any case. You'll hear some upshift hesistations in the video. That's me shifting late and bouncing into the throttle rev-limiter. User error

hey wstar, what software/device did you use to get that tach/speedo info on the side

wstar · 04-30-2012, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdkwang

hey wstar, what software/device did you use to get that tach/speedo info on the side

The basic details are outlined here: wstar's Journal

It's an Android phone on a window mount (a crappy one, hence all the extra shake), and the software on the phone is "aLapRecorder HD", which uses the internal camera and then pulls 5Hz D-GPS + OBD-II sensors over bluetooth, etc. Then post-processing in RaceRender2.

Jsolo · 04-30-2012, 09:12 PM

In a track environment, driving a well shifting auto is indeed easier and lets you focus on other aspects such as improving your line, entry/brake points, etc. Unless you can heel/toe well, this would be an added challenge on the track (or stay in one or two gears all the time).

On the street, things don't happen quite as fast. In fact, things happen far too slowly, so driving an MT does make for more exciting travels.

UNKNOWN_370 · 04-30-2012, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jsolo

In a track environment, driving a well shifting auto is indeed easier and lets you focus on other aspects such as improving your line, entry/brake points, etc. Unless you can heel/toe well, this would be an added challenge on the track (or stay in one or two gears all the time).

On the street, things don't happen quite as fast. In fact, things happen far too slowly, so driving an MT does make for more exciting travels.

Well said.

ayrton88 · 05-01-2012, 08:28 AM

I agree that for street driving, which is 90% of what I do, the manual is more exciting. For everyday driving, I find the automatic terribly boring. Even when stuck in traffic I prefer the stick...at least it gives you something to do.

11Thumper · 05-01-2012, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ayrton88

Even when stuck in traffic I prefer the stick...at least it gives you something to do.

I just tell my lady to wear a short skirt so I can rub her...leg. AT all the way! lol

04-30-2012, 02:36 PM	#3 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3596	The self-tuning just remembers previous best-fit data, that's all. If you factory-reset the ECU, for example, it has to go back to baseline and then figure out the best spark timing numbers to use given your fuel quality, air density, ambient/coolant temps, etc based on sensor feedback. Once it homes in on the correct values though, you can shut the car off and start it back up the next day and it will be much closer to optimal right off the bat (well, assuming you didn't ship it to another continent with different weather while it was shut off ). Reset the ECU and you're back to square one again. But people get confused about this. They know the ECU is somewhat adaptable, and they see some effects where hard-vs-soft driving styles lead to a semi-persistent effect when you switch drivers for a few minutes, etc. They start thinking the ECU can really "learn" your driving style, as if it has some internal parameter that goes from 0-100 and measures "how aggressive this dude likes to run the car". It doesn't, AFAIK. It's just adapting to current conditions, and it will re-adapt within minutes if you change the conditions drastically. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

04-30-2012, 06:17 PM	#7 (permalink)
Bucketlist2012 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Northern California Posts: 1,424 Drives: 370Z Touring/Sport Rep Power: 18	Since this is 2012, Automatics have come a long way.. If we were talking the days of the past, you would NEVER see an automatic car on the track...The hesitation with an automatic downshifting is just madness on an older car. The old days you would downshift an automatic coming up to a turn and then wait......................Then BOOM, it would downshift causing a compression lock up on the rear tires entering the turn.... But the newer cars have come a long way...But I understand some guys must have a manual transmission...No problem with that.. As far as testing the Mercedes, you must test the AMG model to really get the feel...You don't care that it is an automatic...The cars are just crazy fun... But I am new to the 370Z, and cannot wait to really test the paddles... I would never buy an automatic older sports car..Now that would suck.. __________________ 2009 Sport/Touring 370Z 1971 Z/28 with coil overs, rushforth's, willwoods, Hotchkis. 4 speed GMC Sierra1500

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04-30-2012, 05:51 PM	#2 (permalink)
sonic370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: Orange Texas Posts: 1,574 Drives: 09 370Z Sports PGK Rep Power: 20	Red head or Blondes it's all about choice's... With the 370 imho it's a win-win either way..... when people stop and stare and rubber neck you on the highway i doubt if they are thinking " i wonder if that's a auto or manual"

04-30-2012, 02:39 PM	#4 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 32	It just changes the shift points, not anything special. I didnt wantto say anything to ruin some bubbles.....

04-30-2012, 03:57 PM	#5 (permalink)
RiCharlie Track Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Johnston RI Posts: 857 Drives: 370 Touring Spt A/t Rep Power: 17	okay everyone..here is the dumbest question of the day...What is the difference ( advantage) between a full standard shift and the paddle shifters on the auto? I have the auto and when i feel like shifting myself I can do it..when I feel like taking a nap, I put it in full auto and I am good to go..So why would I want a full manual?

04-30-2012, 09:12 PM	#12 (permalink)
Jsolo Track Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: chicago Posts: 783 Drives: '12 G37 6MT Rep Power: 16	In a track environment, driving a well shifting auto is indeed easier and lets you focus on other aspects such as improving your line, entry/brake points, etc. Unless you can heel/toe well, this would be an added challenge on the track (or stay in one or two gears all the time). On the street, things don't happen quite as fast. In fact, things happen far too slowly, so driving an MT does make for more exciting travels.

05-01-2012, 08:28 AM	#14 (permalink)
ayrton88 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Chicago Posts: 397 Drives: 2010 Nissan 370Z Rep Power: 16	I agree that for street driving, which is 90% of what I do, the manual is more exciting. For everyday driving, I find the automatic terribly boring. Even when stuck in traffic I prefer the stick...at least it gives you something to do.