wstar's Journal

wstar · 09-19-2011, 09:10 PM

Got my brake rotor kit in from Relentless finally. Looks nice, around 21 lbs per rear and 19 lbs per front. Need to sort out the rear caliper work, etc. Probably do it tomorrow and/or wednesday, assuming a last minute trip out of town doesn't come up by then.

Equinox · 09-20-2011, 07:36 AM

you most likely will need a brake piston retracting tool. Cheap little cube that you can get at auto parts stores; because you of course are going to put on new pads with new rotors.......

wstar · 09-20-2011, 07:38 AM

Hmm I've seen those cubes before, I thought that was for removing or re-installing the actual pistons? I usually just use small c-clamps to push the pistons back in to fit new pads.

Equinox · 09-20-2011, 07:56 AM

rear brakes usually screw in because of the parking brake (in my experience). Go ahead and try the c clamp method, but if it isn't going any where, your best bet is to screw that sucker back in.

ChrisSlicks · 09-20-2011, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Equinox

rear brakes usually screw in because of the parking brake (in my experience). Go ahead and try the c clamp method, but if it isn't going any where, your best bet is to screw that sucker back in.

No screwing on these. Straight up pistons with separate e-brake shoes built into hub assembly. With fixed calipers it is tough to use a c-clamp, usually I just use an old pad to gently lever the piston back. Of course as you push one back another one wants to come out so it is like a game of wackamole.

wstar · 09-20-2011, 08:19 AM

Yeah I've swapped pads on these brakes twice before so far (oem -> hps, and hps -> hps), and I've managed with the C-clamps. I also use boards to help too, which I guess is similar to your "old pad" idea. e.g. I put a section of 3/4-inch think board I have laying around inside the caliper and then c-clamp that to the outside of the caliper until I get them both pushed in.

Equinox · 09-20-2011, 08:45 AM

good to know, thanks guys.

wstar · 09-25-2011, 10:53 PM

Just got done with my big weekend of brakes work:

1) Put the Relentless 2-piece rotors on all 4 corners (along with their rear caliper expansion kit for the thicker rear rotors, which means taking the rear rotors completely apart and introducing lots of air into the system in the process).

2) A very thorough bleed of all the fluid: ran 2L of cheap Prestone stuff from autozone through just to clean out air bubbles and old fluid/moisture, around the 4 corners 2x over. Then flushed that with fresh RBF600 to past the obvious color change at all 4 corners.

3) Installed Carbotech XP8 pads all around.

4) Bedded it all in together.

The Carbotechs seem to bed in fine, and no real noise so far, so I may just keep using them as street pads, at least until they start getting noisy on me.

The Relentless kit seem to function fine so far. Both the rotors and the caliper expansion kit seem quite high quality. The rears are considerably thicker than stock, and at all 4 corners it's obvious they've got a better cooling vane setup in the interior (that and they're slotted to boot).

The only technical gripe I have is about the weights. The fronts are as advertised and talked about elsewhere on the board: ~19lbs per rotor, vs 29lbs for the stock ones I took off, so there's 20 lbs of unsprung rotating weight gone from the front of the car.

However, at least in my personal case, the "lightweight" 2-piece rear rotors are actually heavier than the stock ones I took off, by 1.8lbs per rotor. I checked and double-checked and triple-checked. Relentless claims roughly 3-4 lbs lighter on the rear rotors, and other installers seem to have confirmed this. Scott@RA claims I'm the first person to report having lighter stock rotors than his 2-piece ones. It's not an insignificant difference though, or just some minor measurement error. "3-4 lbs lighter" vs 1.8 lbs heavier is a net of ~5-6 lbs difference from expectations, which is in the ballpark of ~25% of the weight of the objects we're talking about. I repeatedly measured both of my RA ones and both of my stockers. The stockers are 19.2 lbs each, and the RA's are 21 lbs flat. It's hard to imagine some Nissan variance (as in, maybe on some 2009 cars they sourced different rear sport-package rotor part numbers) accounting for such a large weight discrepancy.

I'll have to check and see if anyone else kept the actual weight numbers from their stock and RA rear rotors for comparison sometime to delve deeper into this mystery.

wstar · 09-27-2011, 02:39 PM

Brakes update after 2 full days on the street. Minor squeals during light braking at low speeds are starting to creep in. It's not all that bad though so far, not enough to make me want to swap in a street pad for regular use anyways.

I imagine it will be a while before I fully understand the squeal, but so far the evidence seems to point to the idea that it's very dependent on how you treat the brakes. Basically if you're light on them on the street like a normal driver, it seems to de-bed them a little (remove some of the good xfer layer) and make them noisy. Doing a light rebedding seems to quiet them down for a while (and by light, I mean really just 4-5 good hard stops from ~50-55mph down to 10mph, fairly closely spaced together).

As I've always done, I'm careful to time it out so that I can let off the brakes and roll the last foot or two to a stop without them, to avoid burning them into one spot on the rotor (with a little parking brake help when necc). That alone probably avoids a lot of rotor and pad problems for me.

Time will tell if I can sustain a pattern of occasional partial re-bedding to keep them relatively quiet on the street between track days, or if I'll eventually give up and use a street pad to avoid noise.

The braking performance is awesome though, they're very grabby

wstar · 09-27-2011, 02:47 PM

Oh one other totally random technical note on our cars, maybe someone will Google this in a time of need someday:

Idle Air Volume Learning

The service manual details the pre-requisites for this, as well as the steps to accomplish it without any special tools (e.g. Consult-III), on pages EC-18 through EC-20. It's a good thing to do when you've made significant breathing changes (intake/exhaust work, etc), after changing the idle speeds via UpRev, or just anytime after a full ECU reset as well. I assume we all already know this. I've done it several times in the past without issue.

Yesterday after having my battery disconnected for an extended period, and fixing a minor intake problem (I had a leak between my filters and throttle plates, someone didn't fully hook up one of my PCV intake hoses properly last time they were in there...

), I tried to do Idle Air Volume Learning again like before.

For the life of me, I couldn't get it to work. I kept repeating the Service Manual's sequence over and over (the gas pedal timing, etc), but never got the blinking SES light that indicates you've done it all right.

I finally figured out the problem after a while, randomly: Having my PLX Kiwi Bluetooth adapter hooked up to the OBD-II port was preventing it. I wasn't even running any diagnostic software, I just had the adapter hooked up and powered on. Disconnected it and the procedure worked on the very next try.

My wild guess is that if it senses a CAN-capable device hooked to the OBD-II port, the "manual" procedures for things like Idle Air Volume Learning are disabled because it assumes you've got Consult-III available or something. Who knows. Bottom line: disconnect your OBD-II adapters before doing this procedure or it will never work.

Equinox · 09-27-2011, 05:49 PM

nice gremlin find.

wstar · 10-16-2011, 10:01 AM

Linking this here for visibility: done sorting out a good UpRev throttle map: Smooth Throttle for UpRev

Another random note: my PC680 battery is finally failing. It finally crossed some line, and now I really only get a few good starts over a few days before it really needs charging with a good charger to top it off again (and even the good starts are little iffy). It was a good long run, but it's time to replace it. A new battery and some new electrical hardware (for better connectivity than the hackish first job) are ordered to arrive early next week, will post part#'s and pics after the install.

wstar · 10-21-2011, 01:25 PM

Re-relocated my battery yesterday and today. I put most of the info back in the DIY battery relocate thread, over here: DIY: Battery Relo

wstar · 10-24-2011, 03:37 PM

Replaced (with OEM stuff) the factory front spoilers (all 3: the little ones in front of the wheels and the big one on the lower front edge of the bumper). They've gotten pretty torn up over the past couple of years, to the point where I think their aerodynamics are compromised.

I had been putting off replacing the main one because I didn't want to deal with the riveting. Turns out the new OEM replacements come with bolts instead (don't ask me why they ever put rivets on what's clearly a wear item). Just had to cut off the rivets on the old piece and then enlarge the holes in the bumper very slightly (1/4 inch drill bit).

Also, I installed Z-speed's aluminum under-tray. I had been wanting one forever, but I knew my old 1-inch oil pan spacer wouldn't fit under it. Figured I'd give it a shot with the new AM Performance oil pan.

The good results:

It fits the oil pan fine (the drain bolt just barely touches the undercover)
It looks like it would give better cooling to the pan (and seemed to during one test drive today vs normal behavior)
Probably better front underside aero, but who knows without testing
Seems stronger against possible underside damage.

The so-so results:

The Al is thick enough that this mod actually adds roughly 2.5 lbs to the front of the car vs the non-Nismo plastic undercover. All things considered I'm ok with that tradeoff, especially being so down low and spread out wide.
Z-speed and Z1 both warn about incompatibility with extended oil pans, but I found a new incompatibility: Hotchkis front sway bars. The Hotchkis bushings stick out about 1/8" (maybe less) more than the pan technically allows for, and then on top of that they have grease fitting nipples on the bottom that really get in the way. I worked around the grease fittings by cutting holes in the undertray with a 1-inch hole saw to let them peep through, and then the tray just barely stretches over the bushings themselves and bolts on securely. It's a little scary having those grease nipples sticking out, they're gonna get killed if I ever bottom out the front of the car. But on the other hand they're just grease fittings for swaybar bushings, it's not a catastrophic problem if that happens.
With the AM Performance oil pan Z-speed's little oil change door is useless, and one of the two bolts for it hits the pan to boot. I just removed the offending door bolt for now, and later I'm going to remove the other and weld the door shut so it can't rattle. I'm pretty used to removing the whole tray for oil changes anyways.

I expected all of these sorts of issues given how many unusual mods my car has, so the fact that it's on the car and usable was a good overall result for me, just things to keep in mind for others.

wstar · 12-08-2011, 08:41 PM

Today I swapped in Carbotech's Bobcat-series street brake pads (taking off my XP8s), to see if they'd cut down on the cold/low-speed squealing. I mainly chose them out of fear of Carbotech's statement that their pads should only be mixed with their own other pads on the same rotor without scrubbing/prepping the rotor surface when changing and re-bedding completely. I figure I'll try to follow the mfg's recommendations and save some labor.

Pad swap was easy of course thanks to the nice design of the Akebonos. I bedded them per Carbotech's directions. I still get a little bit of a squeal in the <5mph range coming to a stop, but it's not anywhere near as loud or frequent as the XP8's, totally livable on the street. Given that it sounds so similar to a muted version of some of my worst XP8 squeals, I wouldn't be surprised if the cause was leftover XP8 material on the rotor that hasn't been abraded/replaced by the Bobcat pads yet, so it may fade completely in a few days.

My stock pads and my Hawk HPS's never made a peep though, so while it's not a big deal if it doesn't, it be nice if this little squeal went away.

As far as pad performance goes, it's definitely a big step down from XP8. I've gotten used to the quick bite on the XP8's, and this is back to feeling more like my old HPS's. Still, it's plenty good enough for a street pad, and seems a bit more consistent and fade-resistant than OEM/HPS I've had on the car in the past. My XP8's still have plenty of material on them, so they're boxed up for the next track event, which looks like it will be the weekend of Jan 21-22 back at MSR Houston again, hopefully in the opposite direction from the last few times out.

09-19-2011, 09:10 PM	#1 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	Got my brake rotor kit in from Relentless finally. Looks nice, around 21 lbs per rear and 19 lbs per front. Need to sort out the rear caliper work, etc. Probably do it tomorrow and/or wednesday, assuming a last minute trip out of town doesn't come up by then. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

09-20-2011, 07:36 AM	#2 (permalink)
Equinox Track Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Beaumont, TX Posts: 685 Drives: 06 Porsche Carrera S Rep Power: 19	you most likely will need a brake piston retracting tool. Cheap little cube that you can get at auto parts stores; because you of course are going to put on new pads with new rotors....... __________________ Check out my Albums '13 Subaru WRX STi \| '06 Porsche 911 Carrera S (SOLD) \| '96 Mazda RX-7 6.0L V8 RHD (SOLD) \| '09 Nissan Nismo #0058 (SOLD)

09-20-2011, 07:38 AM	#3 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	Hmm I've seen those cubes before, I thought that was for removing or re-installing the actual pistons? I usually just use small c-clamps to push the pistons back in to fit new pads. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

09-20-2011, 07:56 AM	#4 (permalink)
Equinox Track Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Beaumont, TX Posts: 685 Drives: 06 Porsche Carrera S Rep Power: 19	rear brakes usually screw in because of the parking brake (in my experience). Go ahead and try the c clamp method, but if it isn't going any where, your best bet is to screw that sucker back in. __________________ Check out my Albums '13 Subaru WRX STi \| '06 Porsche 911 Carrera S (SOLD) \| '96 Mazda RX-7 6.0L V8 RHD (SOLD) \| '09 Nissan Nismo #0058 (SOLD) Last edited by Equinox; 09-20-2011 at 07:58 AM.

09-20-2011, 08:19 AM	#6 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	Yeah I've swapped pads on these brakes twice before so far (oem -> hps, and hps -> hps), and I've managed with the C-clamps. I also use boards to help too, which I guess is similar to your "old pad" idea. e.g. I put a section of 3/4-inch think board I have laying around inside the caliper and then c-clamp that to the outside of the caliper until I get them both pushed in. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

09-20-2011, 08:45 AM	#7 (permalink)
Equinox Track Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Beaumont, TX Posts: 685 Drives: 06 Porsche Carrera S Rep Power: 19	good to know, thanks guys. __________________ Check out my Albums '13 Subaru WRX STi \| '06 Porsche 911 Carrera S (SOLD) \| '96 Mazda RX-7 6.0L V8 RHD (SOLD) \| '09 Nissan Nismo #0058 (SOLD)

09-25-2011, 10:53 PM	#8 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	Just got done with my big weekend of brakes work: 1) Put the Relentless 2-piece rotors on all 4 corners (along with their rear caliper expansion kit for the thicker rear rotors, which means taking the rear rotors completely apart and introducing lots of air into the system in the process). 2) A very thorough bleed of all the fluid: ran 2L of cheap Prestone stuff from autozone through just to clean out air bubbles and old fluid/moisture, around the 4 corners 2x over. Then flushed that with fresh RBF600 to past the obvious color change at all 4 corners. 3) Installed Carbotech XP8 pads all around. 4) Bedded it all in together. The Carbotechs seem to bed in fine, and no real noise so far, so I may just keep using them as street pads, at least until they start getting noisy on me. The Relentless kit seem to function fine so far. Both the rotors and the caliper expansion kit seem quite high quality. The rears are considerably thicker than stock, and at all 4 corners it's obvious they've got a better cooling vane setup in the interior (that and they're slotted to boot). The only technical gripe I have is about the weights. The fronts are as advertised and talked about elsewhere on the board: ~19lbs per rotor, vs 29lbs for the stock ones I took off, so there's 20 lbs of unsprung rotating weight gone from the front of the car. However, at least in my personal case, the "lightweight" 2-piece rear rotors are actually heavier than the stock ones I took off, by 1.8lbs per rotor. I checked and double-checked and triple-checked. Relentless claims roughly 3-4 lbs lighter on the rear rotors, and other installers seem to have confirmed this. Scott@RA claims I'm the first person to report having lighter stock rotors than his 2-piece ones. It's not an insignificant difference though, or just some minor measurement error. "3-4 lbs lighter" vs 1.8 lbs heavier is a net of ~5-6 lbs difference from expectations, which is in the ballpark of ~25% of the weight of the objects we're talking about. I repeatedly measured both of my RA ones and both of my stockers. The stockers are 19.2 lbs each, and the RA's are 21 lbs flat. It's hard to imagine some Nissan variance (as in, maybe on some 2009 cars they sourced different rear sport-package rotor part numbers) accounting for such a large weight discrepancy. I'll have to check and see if anyone else kept the actual weight numbers from their stock and RA rear rotors for comparison sometime to delve deeper into this mystery. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

09-27-2011, 02:39 PM	#9 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	Brakes update after 2 full days on the street. Minor squeals during light braking at low speeds are starting to creep in. It's not all that bad though so far, not enough to make me want to swap in a street pad for regular use anyways. I imagine it will be a while before I fully understand the squeal, but so far the evidence seems to point to the idea that it's very dependent on how you treat the brakes. Basically if you're light on them on the street like a normal driver, it seems to de-bed them a little (remove some of the good xfer layer) and make them noisy. Doing a light rebedding seems to quiet them down for a while (and by light, I mean really just 4-5 good hard stops from ~50-55mph down to 10mph, fairly closely spaced together). As I've always done, I'm careful to time it out so that I can let off the brakes and roll the last foot or two to a stop without them, to avoid burning them into one spot on the rotor (with a little parking brake help when necc). That alone probably avoids a lot of rotor and pad problems for me. Time will tell if I can sustain a pattern of occasional partial re-bedding to keep them relatively quiet on the street between track days, or if I'll eventually give up and use a street pad to avoid noise. The braking performance is awesome though, they're very grabby __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

09-27-2011, 02:47 PM	#10 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	Oh one other totally random technical note on our cars, maybe someone will Google this in a time of need someday: Idle Air Volume Learning The service manual details the pre-requisites for this, as well as the steps to accomplish it without any special tools (e.g. Consult-III), on pages EC-18 through EC-20. It's a good thing to do when you've made significant breathing changes (intake/exhaust work, etc), after changing the idle speeds via UpRev, or just anytime after a full ECU reset as well. I assume we all already know this. I've done it several times in the past without issue. Yesterday after having my battery disconnected for an extended period, and fixing a minor intake problem (I had a leak between my filters and throttle plates, someone didn't fully hook up one of my PCV intake hoses properly last time they were in there... ), I tried to do Idle Air Volume Learning again like before. For the life of me, I couldn't get it to work. I kept repeating the Service Manual's sequence over and over (the gas pedal timing, etc), but never got the blinking SES light that indicates you've done it all right. I finally figured out the problem after a while, randomly: Having my PLX Kiwi Bluetooth adapter hooked up to the OBD-II port was preventing it. I wasn't even running any diagnostic software, I just had the adapter hooked up and powered on. Disconnected it and the procedure worked on the very next try. My wild guess is that if it senses a CAN-capable device hooked to the OBD-II port, the "manual" procedures for things like Idle Air Volume Learning are disabled because it assumes you've got Consult-III available or something. Who knows. Bottom line: disconnect your OBD-II adapters before doing this procedure or it will never work. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

09-27-2011, 05:49 PM	#11 (permalink)
Equinox Track Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Beaumont, TX Posts: 685 Drives: 06 Porsche Carrera S Rep Power: 19	nice gremlin find. __________________ Check out my Albums '13 Subaru WRX STi \| '06 Porsche 911 Carrera S (SOLD) \| '96 Mazda RX-7 6.0L V8 RHD (SOLD) \| '09 Nissan Nismo #0058 (SOLD)

10-16-2011, 10:01 AM	#12 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	Linking this here for visibility: done sorting out a good UpRev throttle map: Smooth Throttle for UpRev Another random note: my PC680 battery is finally failing. It finally crossed some line, and now I really only get a few good starts over a few days before it really needs charging with a good charger to top it off again (and even the good starts are little iffy). It was a good long run, but it's time to replace it. A new battery and some new electrical hardware (for better connectivity than the hackish first job) are ordered to arrive early next week, will post part#'s and pics after the install. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

10-21-2011, 01:25 PM	#13 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	Re-relocated my battery yesterday and today. I put most of the info back in the DIY battery relocate thread, over here: DIY: Battery Relo __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

10-24-2011, 03:37 PM	#14 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	Replaced (with OEM stuff) the factory front spoilers (all 3: the little ones in front of the wheels and the big one on the lower front edge of the bumper). They've gotten pretty torn up over the past couple of years, to the point where I think their aerodynamics are compromised. I had been putting off replacing the main one because I didn't want to deal with the riveting. Turns out the new OEM replacements come with bolts instead (don't ask me why they ever put rivets on what's clearly a wear item). Just had to cut off the rivets on the old piece and then enlarge the holes in the bumper very slightly (1/4 inch drill bit). Also, I installed Z-speed's aluminum under-tray. I had been wanting one forever, but I knew my old 1-inch oil pan spacer wouldn't fit under it. Figured I'd give it a shot with the new AM Performance oil pan. The good results: It fits the oil pan fine (the drain bolt just barely touches the undercover) It looks like it would give better cooling to the pan (and seemed to during one test drive today vs normal behavior) Probably better front underside aero, but who knows without testing Seems stronger against possible underside damage. The so-so results: The Al is thick enough that this mod actually adds roughly 2.5 lbs to the front of the car vs the non-Nismo plastic undercover. All things considered I'm ok with that tradeoff, especially being so down low and spread out wide. Z-speed and Z1 both warn about incompatibility with extended oil pans, but I found a new incompatibility: Hotchkis front sway bars. The Hotchkis bushings stick out about 1/8" (maybe less) more than the pan technically allows for, and then on top of that they have grease fitting nipples on the bottom that really get in the way. I worked around the grease fittings by cutting holes in the undertray with a 1-inch hole saw to let them peep through, and then the tray just barely stretches over the bushings themselves and bolts on securely. It's a little scary having those grease nipples sticking out, they're gonna get killed if I ever bottom out the front of the car. But on the other hand they're just grease fittings for swaybar bushings, it's not a catastrophic problem if that happens. With the AM Performance oil pan Z-speed's little oil change door is useless, and one of the two bolts for it hits the pan to boot. I just removed the offending door bolt for now, and later I'm going to remove the other and weld the door shut so it can't rattle. I'm pretty used to removing the whole tray for oil changes anyways. I expected all of these sorts of issues given how many unusual mods my car has, so the fact that it's on the car and usable was a good overall result for me, just things to keep in mind for others. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details Last edited by wstar; 10-24-2011 at 04:00 PM.

12-08-2011, 08:41 PM	#15 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	Today I swapped in Carbotech's Bobcat-series street brake pads (taking off my XP8s), to see if they'd cut down on the cold/low-speed squealing. I mainly chose them out of fear of Carbotech's statement that their pads should only be mixed with their own other pads on the same rotor without scrubbing/prepping the rotor surface when changing and re-bedding completely. I figure I'll try to follow the mfg's recommendations and save some labor. Pad swap was easy of course thanks to the nice design of the Akebonos. I bedded them per Carbotech's directions. I still get a little bit of a squeal in the <5mph range coming to a stop, but it's not anywhere near as loud or frequent as the XP8's, totally livable on the street. Given that it sounds so similar to a muted version of some of my worst XP8 squeals, I wouldn't be surprised if the cause was leftover XP8 material on the rotor that hasn't been abraded/replaced by the Bobcat pads yet, so it may fade completely in a few days. My stock pads and my Hawk HPS's never made a peep though, so while it's not a big deal if it doesn't, it be nice if this little squeal went away. As far as pad performance goes, it's definitely a big step down from XP8. I've gotten used to the quick bite on the XP8's, and this is back to feeling more like my old HPS's. Still, it's plenty good enough for a street pad, and seems a bit more consistent and fade-resistant than OEM/HPS I've had on the car in the past. My XP8's still have plenty of material on them, so they're boxed up for the next track event, which looks like it will be the weekend of Jan 21-22 back at MSR Houston again, hopefully in the opposite direction from the last few times out. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details Last edited by wstar; 12-08-2011 at 08:44 PM.

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