Nissan Consumer Affairs Oil Cooler Response

FricFrac · 06-06-2009, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IDZRVIT

Yes, I too would like the dealer to replace all those parts that wear out too soon from off road use e.g. brakes, rotors, tires, oil, filters, etc. Where do you draw the line? Nissan and all other car manufacturer's have drawn the line at the point where beyond normal use is defined as off road use and will not be covered under warranty (if you're found out or the computer recorded data that would indicate off road use at the time of failure).

As for false advertising, the coolers were installed for the test cars because the test cars were to be used/abused on the track by the automotive journalsits. Just the same as some of the guys in here who track/race their cars and have installed coolers. It's a no brainer. Hyundai advertises their Genisis Coupe by drifting it around a closed course track. Using the same logic for advertising, should the GC owners expect their tires to last the same milage as they would under normal use? Or how about a newly licensed driver who goes to the track to do some drifting with his new, as advertised, GC and kills himself in turn one? Do his loved ones have a right to sue because the car should drift as advertised?

I too hope to get a free oil cooler from Nissan if it is proven whatever it is the group is trying to prove - potential for engine failure or false advertising or ??? Good luck - you'll need it.

I suspect there is a little disclaimer on the comercial about being a profesional driver and don't try drifting at home.... there was no disclaimer about the oil cooler supplied for the media

Most people won't have issue with the cooler. It will be the same people who actually get the 18MPG in the city and 28MPG on the highway in this car. It is actually possible to get these numbers but the car is basically a garage queen.

Personally my main frustration is that Nissan provide the car to the media with the cooler. They did this to boost sales of the car by showing what the car was capable of WITH THE COOLER. Its a work around to prevent the car from going into "safety mode". They obviously knew there was an issue or they would never have added a cooler in the first place. What's the difference in supplying a cooler as opposed to supplying stickier tires or modifying the ECU or removing the catalytic converters for better performance? Nothing - they are all cheating or deciving to increase sales and its not OK.

This has nothing to do with getting a free oil cooler. Most people could care less and have no need for it - the same as they have no need for a 3.7l engine that makes 332HP or 60-0 in just over 100 feet or 0.98 lateral G. The people who bought the car as a pen1s extension don't care if their pen1s is oil cooled.

Most people are willing to pay for the oil cooler and installation but they want to make sure Nissan won't try to pull some stunt and make an illogical statement like the oil cooler causing a problem rather than preventing one.

semtex · 06-06-2009, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FricFrac

I suspect there is a little disclaimer on the comercial about being a profesional driver and don't try drifting at home.... there was no disclaimer about the oil cooler supplied for the media

Most people won't have issue with the cooler. It will be the same people who actually get the 18MPG in the city and 28MPG on the highway in this car. It is actually possible to get these numbers but the car is basically a garage queen.

Personally my main frustration is that Nissan provide the car to the media with the cooler. They did this to boost sales of the car by showing what the car was capable of WITH THE COOLER. Its a work around to prevent the car from going into "safety mode". They obviously knew there was an issue or they would never have added a cooler in the first place. What's the difference in supplying a cooler as opposed to supplying stickier tires or modifying the ECU or removing the catalytic converters for better performance? Nothing - they are all cheating or deciving to increase sales and its not OK.

This has nothing to do with getting a free oil cooler. Most people could care less and have no need for it - the same as they have no need for a 3.7l engine that makes 332HP or 60-0 in just over 100 feet or 0.98 lateral G. The people who bought the car as a pen1s extension don't care if their pen1s is oil cooled.

Most people are willing to pay for the oil cooler and installation but they want to make sure Nissan won't try to pull some stunt and make an illogical statement like the oil cooler causing a problem rather than preventing one.

Very well said, and I agree 100%. I, personally, have not had an oil temp problem thus far. It's the feeling that I've been had by deceptive advertising that is getting under my skin. But I can get over that. Here's what I find harder to get over. I have no quarrel with buying my own oil cooler. In fact, I already have -- it's sitting in the garage ready to be installed the next time I do an oil change. But the idea that as soon as I install it my warranty is void doesn't sit very well with me. That's the pill I'm finding tougher to swallow.

frost · 06-06-2009, 08:36 PM

^ doesn't that seem like it will work in reverse however, when those of us in warm weather are sending our cars back under state lemon laws? I mean, I'm a little rusty, but I believe if it overheats 4 times without it being fixed, it would be considered a lemon here.

VCuomo · 06-06-2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frost

^ doesn't that seem like it will work in reverse however, when those of us in warm weather are sending our cars back under state lemon laws? I mean, I'm a little rusty, but I believe if it overheats 4 times without it being fixed, it would be considered a lemon here.

In CA, as you state, Nissan gets 4 tries to fix the problem and then the car can be declared a lemon. But, that's for failures under "normal use", not track use.

antennahead · 06-06-2009, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frost

^ doesn't that seem like it will work in reverse however, when those of us in warm weather are sending our cars back under state lemon laws? I mean, I'm a little rusty, but I believe if it overheats 4 times without it being fixed, it would be considered a lemon here.

There is a lot of debate here about "tracking" the car and Nissan not being interested in lowering temps for that/versus warranty, etc. I can see that argument. However, there are many here in warm climates that are hitting 260 with minimal effort already. Is Nissan going to step up to the plate and say that improvements in metalurgy and lubricants will now allow these temps with no longterm effects on the engine? I guess as an earlier poster stated, someone needs an independant authority to do some testing on this and report some results.......... maybe that dude from 370.com that posts here quite often?

John

grahfz · 06-07-2009, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antennahead

There is a lot of debate here about "tracking" the car and Nissan not being interested in lowering temps for that/versus warranty, etc. I can see that argument. However, there are many here in warm climates that are hitting 260 with minimal effort already. Is Nissan going to step up to the plate and say that improvements in metalurgy and lubricants will now allow these temps with no longterm effects on the engine? I guess as an earlier poster stated, someone needs an independant authority to do some testing on this and report some results.......... maybe that dude from 370.com that posts here quite often?

John

Doesn't oil break down ~300? I seem to remember somebody hitting that with a vg30 and tossing rods.

travisjb · 06-06-2009, 10:37 PM

FYI on our oil temp survey Oil Temp Survey ... we have ~80 reporting in, with 29 experiencing oil temps above 260F (~1 out of 3), and 95+% saying they want action from Nissan to remedy the situation

IDZRVIT · 06-07-2009, 10:09 AM

Will someone who is a professional registered mechanical engineer step up to the plate and give their expert opinion on the lubricating properties of todays oils and materials engineering and whether or not the oil will break down on temps below 280 resulting in component failure?

Are the pistons of this engine cooled by oil? If so, would not the oil dripping back to the base pan be hotter than any other part of the engine being cooled by the oil and returning to the base pan as well as the oil scraped from the cylinder walls? If this is the case, the oil cooling the pistons/cylinder walls will be significantly hotter as the top of the pistons/cylinder walls are in direct contact with the extreme temperatures from combustion. Is the oil temperature sensor in the base pan? I would suggest then that highest oil temperatures will be in the base pan and not necessarily in the valve train or bottom end. If so, the oil then is cooled somewhat on its way to the engine's critical components such as the bearings and cam lobes? What might one expect the oil temp to be in these ares of the engine?

Wally · 06-07-2009, 01:41 PM

On the PR campaign, we had 500+ people this weeekend at the track for a track day as well as a Concorso sponsored by Ruf Porsche, I had the only 370z at the track which I parked in front of the paddack to ensure that questions would be asked and made myself available when I was not instructing on the track. I can not tell you the number of people that asked how I liked the car and I think you all know what the answer was.

It was very ironic that Nissan or the reviewers have picked to compare the 370 against the caymans the biggiest difference 370z sat on the paddack while a countless number of cayman's hit the track. (without any problems)

So I quess you really get what you pay for, $60,000 + a real manufacture that supports there product.

$32,000 + a nissan that can not even enter the the game

$80,000 + (GTR) a nissan that is capable but its daddy wont let it out to play.

FricFrac · 06-07-2009, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

On the PR campaign, we had 500+ people this weeekend at the track for a track day as well as a Concorso sponsored by Ruf Porsche, I had the only 370z at the track which I parked in front of the paddack to ensure that questions would be asked and made myself available when I was not instructing on the track. I can not tell you the number of people that asked how I liked the car and I think you all know what the answer was.

It was very ironic that Nissan or the reviewers have picked to compare the 370 against the caymans the biggiest difference 370z sat on the paddack while a countless number of cayman's hit the track. (without any problems)

So I quess you really get what you pay for, $60,000 + a real manufacture that supports there product.

$32,000 + a nissan that can not even enter the the game

$80,000 + (GTR) a nissan that is capable but its daddy wont let it out to play.

I think I'd personally go for the $32K 370Z and another $400 for an oil cooler then buy a second 370Z as a garage queen or for spare parts for the same price as the Cayman....

matt2112 · 06-10-2009, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FricFrac

I think I'd personally go for the $32K 370Z and another $400 for an oil cooler then buy a second 370Z as a garage queen or for spare parts for the same price as the Cayman....

hahahhahahahaaaaa

excellent point! it's actually sad that this is true... for the price of one cayman s, you can buy two 370s; void the warranty on one by installing an oil cooler which, as i understand it, will eliminate the limp mode issue and allow you to track the hell out of it, and then buy a second for daily driving where, as i understand it, the limp mode issue isn't an issue at all.

so there you have it: one cayman s, or two 370s with essentially the same result (in the sense that you can track your car if you wish).

this is, however, only a valid argument insofar as the 370z v. cayman point of view is concerned, but a valid (and quite funny) point nonetheless!

+rep to fricfrac for being the first to mention the "2 for 1"

SoCal 370Z · 06-07-2009, 01:50 PM

Wally,

We have to be fair about matters, as Porsche Cayman's are not without their similar issues: Smoke'em if you Got'em - Petition to Porsche

Believe me, and for different reasons than most here, I think our oil cooler issues sucks the big one, but we have to be equitable in our problem comparison.

alan93rsa · 06-07-2009, 04:10 PM

Quote:

It was very ironic that Nissan or the reviewers have picked to compare the 370 against the caymans the biggiest difference 370z sat on the paddack while a countless number of cayman's hit the track. (without any problems)

So I quess you really get what you pay for, $60,000 + a real manufacture that supports there product.

$32,000 + a nissan that can not even enter the the game

I had to take a $4500 hit on the Z after 3 months to switch to a new 08 Cayman S plus the price difference and it was worth every penny.

LiquidZ · 06-07-2009, 04:46 PM

This thread makes me sad.

(//o)

IDZRVIT · 06-07-2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

This thread makes me sad.

On the contrary, I find it very entertaining. ModShack hit the nail on the head. Why are folks in here who don't own a Z bashing it and other sports cars? I challenge the martyrs to identify the PERFECT sports car currently available for a similar price? Then they can go hang out in that forum group and priase the hell out of it!

06-06-2009, 10:37 PM	#7 (permalink)
travisjb A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: GSO Posts: 2,803 Drives: VIR Rep Power: 189	FYI on our oil temp survey Oil Temp Survey ... we have ~80 reporting in, with 29 experiencing oil temps above 260F (~1 out of 3), and 95+% saying they want action from Nissan to remedy the situation __________________ 2009 370Z #104 For Sale

06-07-2009, 01:50 PM	#12 (permalink)
SoCal 370Z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: US of A Posts: 2,842 Drives: Answers Rep Power: 34	Wally, We have to be fair about matters, as Porsche Cayman's are not without their similar issues: Smoke'em if you Got'em - Petition to Porsche Believe me, and for different reasons than most here, I think our oil cooler issues sucks the big one, but we have to be equitable in our problem comparison. __________________ ( Click to show/hide ) Why I NEVER say NO to the Panda Lou Fusz!!!

06-07-2009, 04:46 PM	#14 (permalink)
LiquidZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 1,940 Drives: Mag. Black 2009 370Z Rep Power: 705	This thread makes me sad. (//o) __________________

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06-06-2009, 08:36 PM	#3 (permalink)
frost Retired admin Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Winterfell Posts: 106,613 Drives: Your Wife Crazy Rep Power: 0	^ doesn't that seem like it will work in reverse however, when those of us in warm weather are sending our cars back under state lemon laws? I mean, I'm a little rusty, but I believe if it overheats 4 times without it being fixed, it would be considered a lemon here.

06-07-2009, 10:09 AM	#8 (permalink)
IDZRVIT A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: Halifax Posts: 1,659 Drives: '13 CTS-V, '76 Vette Rep Power: 28	Will someone who is a professional registered mechanical engineer step up to the plate and give their expert opinion on the lubricating properties of todays oils and materials engineering and whether or not the oil will break down on temps below 280 resulting in component failure? Are the pistons of this engine cooled by oil? If so, would not the oil dripping back to the base pan be hotter than any other part of the engine being cooled by the oil and returning to the base pan as well as the oil scraped from the cylinder walls? If this is the case, the oil cooling the pistons/cylinder walls will be significantly hotter as the top of the pistons/cylinder walls are in direct contact with the extreme temperatures from combustion. Is the oil temperature sensor in the base pan? I would suggest then that highest oil temperatures will be in the base pan and not necessarily in the valve train or bottom end. If so, the oil then is cooled somewhat on its way to the engine's critical components such as the bearings and cam lobes? What might one expect the oil temp to be in these ares of the engine?

06-07-2009, 01:41 PM	#9 (permalink)
Wally Base Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Austin Posts: 32 Drives: 370Z, Sport Package Rep Power: 17	On the PR campaign, we had 500+ people this weeekend at the track for a track day as well as a Concorso sponsored by Ruf Porsche, I had the only 370z at the track which I parked in front of the paddack to ensure that questions would be asked and made myself available when I was not instructing on the track. I can not tell you the number of people that asked how I liked the car and I think you all know what the answer was. It was very ironic that Nissan or the reviewers have picked to compare the 370 against the caymans the biggiest difference 370z sat on the paddack while a countless number of cayman's hit the track. (without any problems) So I quess you really get what you pay for, $60,000 + a real manufacture that supports there product. $32,000 + a nissan that can not even enter the the game $80,000 + (GTR) a nissan that is capable but its daddy wont let it out to play.