Nissan Consumer Affairs Oil Cooler Response

matt2112 · 06-10-2009, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FricFrac

I think I'd personally go for the $32K 370Z and another $400 for an oil cooler then buy a second 370Z as a garage queen or for spare parts for the same price as the Cayman....

hahahhahahahaaaaa

excellent point! it's actually sad that this is true... for the price of one cayman s, you can buy two 370s; void the warranty on one by installing an oil cooler which, as i understand it, will eliminate the limp mode issue and allow you to track the hell out of it, and then buy a second for daily driving where, as i understand it, the limp mode issue isn't an issue at all.

so there you have it: one cayman s, or two 370s with essentially the same result (in the sense that you can track your car if you wish).

this is, however, only a valid argument insofar as the 370z v. cayman point of view is concerned, but a valid (and quite funny) point nonetheless!

+rep to fricfrac for being the first to mention the "2 for 1"

blackbird · 06-10-2009, 08:09 PM

I'm in favor of bugging NISMO to putting their Oil Cooler up for sale. I believe hat this is the oil cooler on the Auto magazine road tests.

Wally · 06-11-2009, 07:54 AM

Filed complaints with BBB and the attorney generals office not that I really expect anything to happen, but I encourage everyone to take a little time and do the same. We need to make sure our voices are heard and not back down. Whether you need the oil cooler or not just based on principal we should have received the vehicle that was in the reviews or at the very least have the opportunity to purchase these parts without affecting the warranty.

It is interesting that Nissan will sell performance parts to the street crowd through the Nismo-S (parts that will not void warranties) brand and fault the owners who are responsible and want to take our car to the track where performance driving is taught and exercised in a very safe manner. So If read between the lines here I would say that Nissan is encouraging street racing and speeding out on public highways and back roads. (not that any of us would engage in such activity) Seems irresponsible to me.

kannibul · 06-11-2009, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

The problem with the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is that you may still have a long, drawn-out battle to finally get things to work in your favor. Nissan can deny your warranty claim on any grounds they choose, and then you're stuck fighting the denial in court. I've heard from my dealer that they've submitted warranty claims to Nissan that have been refused by corporate on the grounds that an aftermarket part was 'connected' to the component that failed. With that rationale, the oil cooler is connected to the entire car (and certainly the engine), so your warranty is in jeopardy until you fight it out in court.

If we were able to set up a class-action suit, the attorney fees should be covered by Nissan should the ruling be in our favor. We'd have to strike a deal with a law firm or pay a retainer up front to get the ball rolling though. If it went the class-action route, we might as well go for broke and try to make Nissan install the coolers for free.

Install the coolers for free as part of a recall.

TheWeatherman · 06-11-2009, 08:11 AM

Man, why not just ask for the oil cooler to be released. My friends, there are WAY worse things happening to a lot of other car brands that some of you would probably then have a heart attack over. I just found out a ton of the new turbocharged Subarus are blowing out their main engine bearings. (Within the first 4,000 miles of ownership.) They need brand new motors and the cars are gone for a couple of weeks. (They're handling it very well on their forums.) DFI German cars are having severe carbon problems because of design flaws that are just inherent. All we need is an oil cooler for a racetrack? I'll take our "problem." I'm just scratching the surface of problems with other companies.

kannibul · 06-11-2009, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by butters167

While I was at work this morning I decided to read my warranty book again. It clearly states in Nissan's own writing something is not covered if it is directly resulting from misuse, alteration, non-approved parts, etc. So they admit in the warranty book that it must be proven that the action or part in question caused the problem for the problem not to be covered. Of course the actual cooler or what ever other part won't be covered unless it is Nissan approved.

With that said this is the reason I always keep my stock parts. If a serious warranty issue occurs I can always put the factory parts back on the affected area or remove the questionable part before taking it in.

I do agree with 6MT in the fact that until someone actually has a serious problem resulting from the high oil temps., there really isn't any legal ground to stand on with this issue. While I'm not a civil lawyer, I have spent plenty of hours in court as a police officer dealing with the legal system and the principle is the same. A precedent must be set before it can be challenged. If someone actually has oil temp related damage and Nissan drags their heels on it then we have something to go on.

Either way we shouldn't have to deal with this issue in the first place. Nissan should quit being a

and retro fit every 370z with an oil cooler.

My bet:

Nissan's position on it could be that the car does not require a better oil cooler, that "limp-mode" is there to protect the engine in the event that it is from "misuse".

Nissan could say that changing the oil cooler indicates extensive misuse...

spearfish25 · 06-11-2009, 02:32 PM

Not changing. Installing. The car doesn't have an oil cooler.

nicknick · 06-11-2009, 08:23 PM

Sounds about right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IDZRVIT

Nissan says/implies you can run all day with an oil temp of 279.9999999….. Above that, the car goes into limp mode. Because it’s Nissan’s warranty, they’d rather save money by protecting the engine from damage by going into limp mode than replace a damaged engine under their warranty. Lubricant technology has advanced and will always advance with improved properties of oils. Bearing materials improve also. Engine technology improves. Point is, this is not 1969 but 2009. Engines of today are not like the engines of yesteryear. Closer tolerances, improved reliability, advances in materials technology, coatings, better lubricants, etc.
So, for those still concerned about the oil temps I suggest this. Pony up a few hundred dollars each and hire a consultant such as South West Research or other firm that is internationally recognized in testing automotive lubricants. Pay for their expert opinions on your temp issue, offer up one of your cars for testing or whatever they recommend in order to present a qualified technical report on your issue. This will resolve your issue either in favour or not if the 260-280 temp is indeed a concern and that it will, beyond a doubt, cause catastrophic engine failure or premature failure of other components related to lubrication. Without concrete facts you have nothing to offer up to Nissan or the courts – law or public opinion.
Should the consultant agree with your temp issue, then present the facts to Nissan and demand that owners have their cars retrofitted with a suitable oil cooler. If Nissan doesn’t respond favourably, send the report to all the car mags, Society of Automotive Engineers and anyone else who has influence in the automotive industry. If Nissan still resists, class action suit to retrofit oil coolers.
In conclusion, get your FACTS first and then formulate the way ahead.

nicknick · 06-11-2009, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sardis

It's lame to bash, but I don't think people should be flamed for being on the fence. The gauge did not stop climbing past 260 on my test drive, and I do track. If Nissan handled the situation like BMW and fixed the issue and retroactively addressed the earlier buyers, I am sure nobody would complain having one of these put on by Nissan

For the sake of their reputation(that is mostly what BMW have) just retrofit oil coolers on sold Zeds and factory install them on new Zed's. If Nissan has to increase price by approx $300, then so be it. Nissan do not "further"? tarnish your good name/products.

rmorrow · 06-21-2010, 09:56 PM

To prevail with any claim that a product is defective, you must prove that a product did not conform to an "ordinary" buyer's expectation, and/or that the product was not fit for a buyers specific use. Under Common Law, you must prove a breach in either Merchantability (former), or Fitness For a Particular Purpose (latter).
I can state definitively that Nissan would have a big problem on their hands if the 370Z has oil temperature problems when driven in everyday conditions, in a manner that a reasonable, prudent person would drive it. Reasonable and prudent does not include tracking the car, with extreme speeds for prolonged periods of time in a manner that would not be expected by most owners. There is a significant difference between "spirited" driving on public roadways and dogging the hell out of the Z in track conditions. Most of us are not going to run our Z's at 75 mph in 4th or 5th gear for prolonged periods of time, or rev the engine to 6,000 rpms or higher for long periods of time or frequently. Nissan has never represented that the car can or should be driven on a racetrack. The fact that certain organizations have had access to a modified Z (oil coolers) on test tracks does not infer that a consumer can take their car and put it through the same operating conditions at the track. I do not see any indication that Nissan is guilty of unfair or deceptive trade practices. I only have about 700 miles on my 2010 370Z, so I am still in break-in mode, keeping the RPM's under 4,000 just as indicated in the Owners Manual. I drove my car for over an hour in Houston's heat last week...96 degrees and high humidity, and I had stop and go traffic and some wide open driving on the freeway where I got the car up to about 85 mph for a short period of time. The highest oil temp I hit was about 230 degrees. I will say that the engine gets really hot...hotter than any engine that I have ever seen, even after short periods of driving. This has not translated to oil temps over 230, and certainly not anywhere close to limp mode. If there is an oil temp problem that would be actionable with Nissan, it would have to result from a widespread problem during normal operating conditions. This is a sports car...this is not a race car. My 2 cents worth.

SkyZ · 06-21-2010, 11:11 PM

not sure what to think of all this but all u guys taking action i applaud you. If this results in a better covered/better built or better anything car then your efforts will not be in vain

wolf41779 · 06-22-2010, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmorrow

To prevail with any claim that a product is defective, you must prove that a product did not conform to an "ordinary" buyer's expectation, and/or that the product was not fit for a buyers specific use. Under Common Law, you must prove a breach in either Merchantability (former), or Fitness For a Particular Purpose (latter).
I can state definitively that Nissan would have a big problem on their hands if the 370Z has oil temperature problems when driven in everyday conditions, in a manner that a reasonable, prudent person would drive it. Reasonable and prudent does not include tracking the car, with extreme speeds for prolonged periods of time in a manner that would not be expected by most owners. There is a significant difference between "spirited" driving on public roadways and dogging the hell out of the Z in track conditions. Most of us are not going to run our Z's at 75 mph in 4th or 5th gear for prolonged periods of time, or rev the engine to 6,000 rpms or higher for long periods of time or frequently. Nissan has never represented that the car can or should be driven on a racetrack. The fact that certain organizations have had access to a modified Z (oil coolers) on test tracks does not infer that a consumer can take their car and put it through the same operating conditions at the track. I do not see any indication that Nissan is guilty of unfair or deceptive trade practices. I only have about 700 miles on my 2010 370Z, so I am still in break-in mode, keeping the RPM's under 4,000 just as indicated in the Owners Manual. I drove my car for over an hour in Houston's heat last week...96 degrees and high humidity, and I had stop and go traffic and some wide open driving on the freeway where I got the car up to about 85 mph for a short period of time. The highest oil temp I hit was about 230 degrees. I will say that the engine gets really hot...hotter than any engine that I have ever seen, even after short periods of driving. This has not translated to oil temps over 230, and certainly not anywhere close to limp mode. If there is an oil temp problem that would be actionable with Nissan, it would have to result from a widespread problem during normal operating conditions. This is a sports car...this is not a race car. My 2 cents worth.

Amen my friend!

Elia Cid · 06-22-2010, 08:03 AM

Hi All,
As a passionate new 370Z owner and after reading numerous treads and postings on these issues I felt obliged to say a few words on this heated issue! “lol”

At the core of this debate is the meaning or the words "sports car" and what is the intended use of a “sports car.”
Certainly, the insurance companies don’t seem to have any doubts on the meaning of a sports car and how these cars will be driven when they provide the insurance on a higher rate.

The issue here, in my opinion, is how the Z cars are sold and promoted! On one hand Nissan says the Z cars were designed and built to directly compete against great sport cars like the Porsche’s Cayman and Boxer sports cars, and on the other hand they say there is no need for an oil cooler and will not warranty the car if you drive it any other way than "normal" day to day driving!

This is certainly a contradiction. The apparent loophole used by Nissan, is that it will only warranty the Z for normal every day use, not for spirited driving, furthermore, it is not obliged to fix any overheating issues resulting from such type of driving!
In essence Nissan suggest that there is no issue if you drive the car normally and views track driving as forfeiting the warranty.
The real issue for me is not so much “tracking the car” type of driving or competition driving that concerns me, but I find it odd that it doesn’t even provide an oil cooler for their Nismo car that is designed and sold for the street version of a track car!

Most intake and exhaust models increases power as well as heat. This begs the question, are these items a wise investment under these circumstance?
This is a a company that won’t even acknowledge that it has a heating issue and therefore many dealers may be tempted to deny warranties as a result of the intake and exhaust additions.

In my opinion, Nissan's biggest missteps have been....

Selling and promoting a rocket and then only providing a horse and buggy warranty coverage.
Voiding the warranty for anything other than normal driving!
Misinforming customers.
Making statements like if they had included oil coolers, the car would have been more expensive and out of reach for many consumers.
How about letting the market and the costumers decide what they can afford instead of just quietly omitting a really needed item in the car.
Why not cut back on the eight speaker and two woofers or something not as important as an oil cooler!
Deceiving their loyal customers by adding oil cooling kits to their press cars for reviews and not including these oil coolers to its loyal consumers.
Oil coolers are essential to what seems to me is a hot running car that is prone to running at the very edge of overheating under the normal driving conditions.
Nissan is already aware of the potential problem, but turns a blind eye to it by not ordering an immediate recall.
Not informing new buyers of the potential heating issues; where Nissan stands on the oil coolers thereby, giving consumers a choice to look elsewhere!

For now I will reframe from going any further with this. I will be driving up to Lockport, New York with my new 370Z, which is a 5 hour, 600 mile drive from my home. I previously made this ride with an Infiniti G350 xS, sedan without any heating issues. I will not exceed the posted speed limits nor push the car hard!
I am hoping I have no issues since I truly feel Nissan does offers a great product at a good value. I would be greatly disappointed if the car doesn't perfrom to its expectations.

That being said, thanks for reading my rant. It is only out of concern since I do enjoy driving my 370Z car!
If I should have any issues on my trip , I will post exactly what happens and take appropriate actions to get the matter resolved!

Please let me know your thoughts and opinions on this topic .

Thanks ,

Alex

xfrgtr · 06-22-2010, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmorrow

To prevail with any claim that a product is defective, you must prove that a product did not conform to an "ordinary" buyer's expectation, and/or that the product was not fit for a buyers specific use. Under Common Law, you must prove a breach in either Merchantability (former), or Fitness For a Particular Purpose (latter).
I can state definitively that Nissan would have a big problem on their hands if the 370Z has oil temperature problems when driven in everyday conditions, in a manner that a reasonable, prudent person would drive it. Reasonable and prudent does not include tracking the car, with extreme speeds for prolonged periods of time in a manner that would not be expected by most owners. There is a significant difference between "spirited" driving on public roadways and dogging the hell out of the Z in track conditions. Most of us are not going to run our Z's at 75 mph in 4th or 5th gear for prolonged periods of time, or rev the engine to 6,000 rpms or higher for long periods of time or frequently. Nissan has never represented that the car can or should be driven on a racetrack. The fact that certain organizations have had access to a modified Z (oil coolers) on test tracks does not infer that a consumer can take their car and put it through the same operating conditions at the track. I do not see any indication that Nissan is guilty of unfair or deceptive trade practices. I only have about 700 miles on my 2010 370Z, so I am still in break-in mode, keeping the RPM's under 4,000 just as indicated in the Owners Manual. I drove my car for over an hour in Houston's heat last week...96 degrees and high humidity, and I had stop and go traffic and some wide open driving on the freeway where I got the car up to about 85 mph for a short period of time. The highest oil temp I hit was about 230 degrees. I will say that the engine gets really hot...hotter than any engine that I have ever seen, even after short periods of driving. This has not translated to oil temps over 230, and certainly not anywhere close to limp mode. If there is an oil temp problem that would be actionable with Nissan, it would have to result from a widespread problem during normal operating conditions. This is a sports car...this is not a race car. My 2 cents worth.

Modshack · 06-22-2010, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elia Cid

Please let me know your thoughts and opinions on this topic .

Your paranoia and gross misstatement of facts will likely prevent you from ever enjoying this car...... Good luck ..

06-10-2009, 08:09 PM	#122 (permalink)
blackbird Base Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Nashua NH Posts: 178 Drives: 09 370Z BLk GTM TT Rep Power: 16	Nismo I'm in favor of bugging NISMO to putting their Oil Cooler up for sale. I believe hat this is the oil cooler on the Auto magazine road tests.

06-22-2010, 08:03 AM	#133 (permalink)
Elia Cid Base Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: East Stroudsburg , PA Posts: 188 Drives: 08 G35 xS , 010 370Z Rep Power: 15	The 370Z and issues concerning overheating and oil cooler kits! Hi All, As a passionate new 370Z owner and after reading numerous treads and postings on these issues I felt obliged to say a few words on this heated issue! “lol” At the core of this debate is the meaning or the words "sports car" and what is the intended use of a “sports car.” Certainly, the insurance companies don’t seem to have any doubts on the meaning of a sports car and how these cars will be driven when they provide the insurance on a higher rate. The issue here, in my opinion, is how the Z cars are sold and promoted! On one hand Nissan says the Z cars were designed and built to directly compete against great sport cars like the Porsche’s Cayman and Boxer sports cars, and on the other hand they say there is no need for an oil cooler and will not warranty the car if you drive it any other way than "normal" day to day driving! This is certainly a contradiction. The apparent loophole used by Nissan, is that it will only warranty the Z for normal every day use, not for spirited driving, furthermore, it is not obliged to fix any overheating issues resulting from such type of driving! In essence Nissan suggest that there is no issue if you drive the car normally and views track driving as forfeiting the warranty. The real issue for me is not so much “tracking the car” type of driving or competition driving that concerns me, but I find it odd that it doesn’t even provide an oil cooler for their Nismo car that is designed and sold for the street version of a track car! Most intake and exhaust models increases power as well as heat. This begs the question, are these items a wise investment under these circumstance? This is a a company that won’t even acknowledge that it has a heating issue and therefore many dealers may be tempted to deny warranties as a result of the intake and exhaust additions. In my opinion, Nissan's biggest missteps have been.... Selling and promoting a rocket and then only providing a horse and buggy warranty coverage. Voiding the warranty for anything other than normal driving! Misinforming customers. Making statements like if they had included oil coolers, the car would have been more expensive and out of reach for many consumers. How about letting the market and the costumers decide what they can afford instead of just quietly omitting a really needed item in the car. Why not cut back on the eight speaker and two woofers or something not as important as an oil cooler! Deceiving their loyal customers by adding oil cooling kits to their press cars for reviews and not including these oil coolers to its loyal consumers. Oil coolers are essential to what seems to me is a hot running car that is prone to running at the very edge of overheating under the normal driving conditions. Nissan is already aware of the potential problem, but turns a blind eye to it by not ordering an immediate recall. Not informing new buyers of the potential heating issues; where Nissan stands on the oil coolers thereby, giving consumers a choice to look elsewhere! For now I will reframe from going any further with this. I will be driving up to Lockport, New York with my new 370Z, which is a 5 hour, 600 mile drive from my home. I previously made this ride with an Infiniti G350 xS, sedan without any heating issues. I will not exceed the posted speed limits nor push the car hard! I am hoping I have no issues since I truly feel Nissan does offers a great product at a good value. I would be greatly disappointed if the car doesn't perfrom to its expectations. That being said, thanks for reading my rant. It is only out of concern since I do enjoy driving my 370Z car! If I should have any issues on my trip , I will post exactly what happens and take appropriate actions to get the matter resolved! Please let me know your thoughts and opinions on this topic . Thanks , Alex __________________ Stillen G3-CAI , CBE , Grounding kit // Berk HFC // Eibach Sway Bars // Rear Spoiler // Kick Plates // Fog Light // Escort 9500ix-Shifters ZR4 // Gentex-51A // Next: Stillen 25 row Oil Cooler , Crank Pulley // O.Z. Botticelli III // KW-V3 Last edited by Elia Cid; 06-22-2010 at 08:39 AM.

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06-11-2009, 07:54 AM	#123 (permalink)
Wally Base Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Austin Posts: 32 Drives: 370Z, Sport Package Rep Power: 16	Filed complaints with BBB and the attorney generals office not that I really expect anything to happen, but I encourage everyone to take a little time and do the same. We need to make sure our voices are heard and not back down. Whether you need the oil cooler or not just based on principal we should have received the vehicle that was in the reviews or at the very least have the opportunity to purchase these parts without affecting the warranty. It is interesting that Nissan will sell performance parts to the street crowd through the Nismo-S (parts that will not void warranties) brand and fault the owners who are responsible and want to take our car to the track where performance driving is taught and exercised in a very safe manner. So If read between the lines here I would say that Nissan is encouraging street racing and speeding out on public highways and back roads. (not that any of us would engage in such activity) Seems irresponsible to me.

06-11-2009, 08:11 AM	#125 (permalink)
TheWeatherman Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 265 Drives: 2009 370Z 6MTw/Sport Rep Power: 16	Man, why not just ask for the oil cooler to be released. My friends, there are WAY worse things happening to a lot of other car brands that some of you would probably then have a heart attack over. I just found out a ton of the new turbocharged Subarus are blowing out their main engine bearings. (Within the first 4,000 miles of ownership.) They need brand new motors and the cars are gone for a couple of weeks. (They're handling it very well on their forums.) DFI German cars are having severe carbon problems because of design flaws that are just inherent. All we need is an oil cooler for a racetrack? I'll take our "problem." I'm just scratching the surface of problems with other companies.

06-11-2009, 02:32 PM	#127 (permalink)
spearfish25 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 4,117 Drives: to work Rep Power: 1856	Not changing. Installing. The car doesn't have an oil cooler.

06-21-2010, 09:56 PM	#130 (permalink)
rmorrow Base Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Houston Posts: 79 Drives: 2010 370z Sports MT Rep Power: 15	To prevail with any claim that a product is defective, you must prove that a product did not conform to an "ordinary" buyer's expectation, and/or that the product was not fit for a buyers specific use. Under Common Law, you must prove a breach in either Merchantability (former), or Fitness For a Particular Purpose (latter). I can state definitively that Nissan would have a big problem on their hands if the 370Z has oil temperature problems when driven in everyday conditions, in a manner that a reasonable, prudent person would drive it. Reasonable and prudent does not include tracking the car, with extreme speeds for prolonged periods of time in a manner that would not be expected by most owners. There is a significant difference between "spirited" driving on public roadways and dogging the hell out of the Z in track conditions. Most of us are not going to run our Z's at 75 mph in 4th or 5th gear for prolonged periods of time, or rev the engine to 6,000 rpms or higher for long periods of time or frequently. Nissan has never represented that the car can or should be driven on a racetrack. The fact that certain organizations have had access to a modified Z (oil coolers) on test tracks does not infer that a consumer can take their car and put it through the same operating conditions at the track. I do not see any indication that Nissan is guilty of unfair or deceptive trade practices. I only have about 700 miles on my 2010 370Z, so I am still in break-in mode, keeping the RPM's under 4,000 just as indicated in the Owners Manual. I drove my car for over an hour in Houston's heat last week...96 degrees and high humidity, and I had stop and go traffic and some wide open driving on the freeway where I got the car up to about 85 mph for a short period of time. The highest oil temp I hit was about 230 degrees. I will say that the engine gets really hot...hotter than any engine that I have ever seen, even after short periods of driving. This has not translated to oil temps over 230, and certainly not anywhere close to limp mode. If there is an oil temp problem that would be actionable with Nissan, it would have to result from a widespread problem during normal operating conditions. This is a sports car...this is not a race car. My 2 cents worth.

06-21-2010, 11:11 PM	#131 (permalink)
SkyZ Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Canada Posts: 382 Drives: 09 370z PG M6 Rep Power: 15	not sure what to think of all this but all u guys taking action i applaud you. If this results in a better covered/better built or better anything car then your efforts will not be in vain