Nissan Ester Oil

370Zsteve · 11-14-2009, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j.arnaldo

If you listen well to commercials, every manufacturer says THEIR product is the very best for you--whatever the product may be! Me? Just prior to having my Civilian's card expire (a benefit I had as Federal employee; I could buy at Ft. Buchanan, a military post, up until July of this year), I went ahead and purchased 6-7 cases of 5W30 Mobil 1 and stashed them in the "automotive stuff" closet! I've got enough for a couple or three-years-worth of oil changes for my wife's Pathfinder and my Z! The price per qt? $4.95, with NO excise tax on the engine honey!!!

I bought 3 cases at Costco (with a coupon) for $22/case. I think I got a better deal

370Zsteve · 11-14-2009, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FricFrac

LOL - this is pretty much the reason I haven't used Amsoil. The "followers" remind me of Amway salesmen.

+1, priceless!

370Zsteve · 11-14-2009, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VCuomo

BTW, Amway has good products... (and I'm not affiliated with them in any way)

Yeah, good AND expensive. Plus you have to keep chasing away the Amway salesman every week when he/she keeps trying to suck the life out of your wallet so he can make his "quota". (Ya, I had a friend who got sucked into Amway a few years back, what a nightmare).

370Zsteve · 11-14-2009, 08:35 AM

This thread could go on forever. Oils with added esters are good for you. End of story.

j.arnaldo · 11-14-2009, 08:38 AM

Great 370ZSteve! I'm glad for you! Any savings on an expensive product is ALRIGHT with me! Do take into consideration that, in Puerto Rico, everything's more expensive than in the continental U.S., çause of the transportation charges--even if we don't pay excise taxes on the product. Down here, a qt of Mobil 1 @ $4.95 is an incredibly low price. I saw the same oil (5W30 Mobil 1) @ $6.95+tax (6%) both at PepBoys and at Advance Auto Parts. Congrats on your great buy, dude! (As a way of comparison, the base 370Z costs $50,000 down here, get the idea of what I'm saying?!) Greetings.

370Zsteve · 11-14-2009, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j.arnaldo

Great 370ZSteve! I'm glad for you! Any savings on an expensive product is ALRIGHT with me! Do take into consideration that, in Puerto Rico, everything's more expensive than in the continental U.S., çause of the transportation charges--even if we don't pay excise taxes on the product. Down here, a qt of Mobil 1 @ $4.95 is an incredibly low price. I saw the same oil (5W30 Mobil 1) @ $6.95+tax (6%) both at PepBoys and at Advance Auto Parts. Congrats on your great buy, dude! (As a way of comparison, the base 370Z costs $50,000 down here, get the idea of what I'm saying?!) Greetings.

No Costco's in PR?

They have them all over Mexico!

j.arnaldo · 11-14-2009, 10:58 AM

Yes, we have COSTCO down here, but the 6% excise tax applies accross the board, besides the price of the oil itself hovering around $5.95-6.95; so, buying on Post was a plus for me. I guess that, once I use up the 6-7 cases, that'll be my best bet for "family size" packs, so to speak. Thanks, dude.

homeslice · 11-15-2009, 10:16 AM

AMSOIL is a true Group IV synthetic. Most oils like Mobil, Castrol, Valvoline, Quakerstate etc. that claim to be synthetic are merely Group III synthetics, which are just hydrocracked mineral oil base stocks. AMSOIL uses true Group IV PAO (poly-alpha-olefin) and Group V (ester) base stocks.

There are many oils out there that call themselves synthetic, but not all are created equal, and that's important to know. You do get what you pay for. Group III synthetic oils only use about 12% synthetic base stocks. The rest is hyrdocracked petroleum base stocks. For major oil companies who have their money in crude oil refining, the word "synthetic" is merely a marketing term. It does not mean 100%, but just that a percentage of synthetic base stock goes into their product.

The oils that are commonly mentioned are Group II and Group III synthetics with the exception of Royal Purple, which is a Group V. AMSOIL is a Group IV synthetic (PAO) but also uses Group V Ester technology. It gives you the best of Group IV and Group V synthetics. Mobil 1 is a Group III synthetic. AMSOIL is a Group IV synthetic.

In the late 1990s, Castrol started selling an oil made from Group III base oil and called it SynTec Full Synthetic. Mobil sued Castrol, asserting that this oil was not synthetic, but simply a highly refined petroleum oil, and therefore it was false advertising to call it synthetic. In 1999, Mobil lost their lawsuit. It was decided that the word "synthetic" was a marketing term and referred to properties, not to production methods or ingredients. Castrol continues to make SynTec out of Group III base oils, that is highly purified mineral oil with most all of the cockroach bits removed.

Shortly after Mobil lost their lawsuit, most oil companies started reformulating their synthetic oils to use Group III base stocks instead of PAOs or diester stocks as their primary component. Most of the "synthetic oil" you can buy today is actually mostly made of this highly-distilled and purified dino-juice called Group III oil. Group III base oils cost about half as much as the synthetics. By using a blend of mostly Group III oils and a smaller amount of "true" synthetics, the oil companies can produce a product that has some of the same properties as the "true" synthetics, and nearly the same cost as the Group III oil. AMSOIL differs from Group III oils. As a Group IV oil, it uses 100% pure synthetic base stocks. This is why you can run it for longer intervals.

Synthetic oils were originally designed for the purpose of having a very pure base oil with excellent properties. By starting from scratch and building up your oil molecules from little pieces, you can pretty much guarantee that every molecule in the oil is just like every other molecule, and therefore the properties are exactly what you designed in, not compromised by impurities. Synthetics were thus originally a reaction to the relatively poor refining processes available from about 1930 to about 1990. The original synthetics were designed for the Army Air Force in WW II. They simply could not make their high- performance turbo-charged radial engines stay alive on the available motor oils of the time.

One process for making synthetic base oils is to start with a chemical called an olefin, and make new molecules by attaching them to each other in long chains, hence "poly." The primary advantage of Poly-Alpha-Olefin "PAO" base oil is that all the molecules in the base oil are pretty much identical, so it's easy to get the base oil to behave exactly as you like. PAOs are called Group IV base oils.

These PAO base oils have an enormous advantage over mineral base oils in low temperature performance and in resistance to oxidation, which is critical in keeping the oil from forming acids.

Another type of base oil is made from refined and processed esters and is called Group V. Esters start life as fatty acids in plants and animals, which are then chemically combined into esters, diesters, and polyesters. Group V base stocks are the most expensive of all to produce. However, the esters are polar molecules and have very significant solvent properties - an ester base oil all by itself will do a very decent job of keeping your engine clean. So, people who are serious about making a superior oil will usually mix some Group V oils into their base stock.

Oils that are strictly Group V ester oils tend to be better suited for high RPM, hot running, air cooled engines. 100% ester based oils are usually more expensive than Group IV oils, and don't have the longevity of PAO (Group IV) or PAO/Ester mixes oils. Group V oils perform very well in the shorter term. They perform very well in race engines and in applications where drain intervals are factory spec or shorter, whereas Group IV oils are better suited for the long haul of extended intervals.

Whatever oil you choose, know what you are buying. Just because the jug says "synthetic" doesn't mean it is made from 100% pure synthetic base stocks.

lovethe370z · 11-16-2009, 09:28 AM

Thank you for the detailed post, Homeslice.

Which oil do you recommend for the Z?

Matt · 11-16-2009, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lovethe370z

Which oil do you recommend for the Z?

semtex · 11-16-2009, 09:40 AM

Mazola. It's made from corn, so it must be good for the environment.

370Zsteve · 11-16-2009, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

Mazola. It's made from corn, so it must be good for the environment.

ibtl, lol

Old Chuck · 11-16-2009, 11:24 AM

Homeslice,
Thanks for the great post. Have been trying to get these things together for a day or so and yours was timely. Great info that is not usually understood or information folks do not bother to learn. Thanks for putting it together.

j.arnaldo · 11-16-2009, 11:27 AM

The one on sale at PepBoys!

Modshack · 11-16-2009, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Chuck

Homeslice,
Thanks for the great post. Have been trying to get these things together for a day or so and yours was timely. Great info that is not usually understood or information folks do not bother to learn. Thanks for putting it together.

Don't give him too much credit! It's a photocopy of a re-posted repost. He does have some interest in seeing his Amsoil futures go up though....

11-14-2009, 08:35 AM	#124 (permalink)
370Zsteve A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Gold Coast CT Posts: 10,599 Drives: 2019 Corvette G.S. Rep Power: 42	This thread could go on forever. Oils with added esters are good for you. End of story. __________________ SOLD MY Z MARCH 2018 - another Core OG moves on - new ride 2019 Z Corvette Grand Sport - no mods necessary but already have eyes on HFC and intakes LOL IT NEVER ENDS.

11-16-2009, 09:28 AM	#129 (permalink)
lovethe370z Base Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: MARYLAND Posts: 182 Drives: 2010 370z Coupe Rep Power: 15	Thank you for the detailed post, Homeslice. Which oil do you recommend for the Z? __________________ 2010 370z Coupe Touring, Sport, Nav 6MT Red/Black

11-16-2009, 09:40 AM	#131 (permalink)
semtex A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Behind enemy lines Age: 53 Posts: 5,995 Drives: People to drink Rep Power: 32	Mazola. It's made from corn, so it must be good for the environment. __________________ "There are no small accidents on this circuit." -- Ayrton Senna 316.8whp & 248 ft/lbs (Dyno Dynamics) \| 319whp & 256 ft/lbs (DynoJet) (04/23/10) Stillen G3 CAI, CBE, Pulley / F.I. LTH / GTSpec Ladder Brace / Setrab Oil Cooler / UpRev-tuned by Forged Perf.

11-14-2009, 08:38 AM	#125 (permalink)
j.arnaldo Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Puerto Rico Posts: 937 Drives: Nissan 350Z, 2004 Rep Power: 0	Great 370ZSteve! I'm glad for you! Any savings on an expensive product is ALRIGHT with me! Do take into consideration that, in Puerto Rico, everything's more expensive than in the continental U.S., çause of the transportation charges--even if we don't pay excise taxes on the product. Down here, a qt of Mobil 1 @ $4.95 is an incredibly low price. I saw the same oil (5W30 Mobil 1) @ $6.95+tax (6%) both at PepBoys and at Advance Auto Parts. Congrats on your great buy, dude! (As a way of comparison, the base 370Z costs $50,000 down here, get the idea of what I'm saying?!) Greetings.

11-14-2009, 10:58 AM	#127 (permalink)
j.arnaldo Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Puerto Rico Posts: 937 Drives: Nissan 350Z, 2004 Rep Power: 0	Yes, we have COSTCO down here, but the 6% excise tax applies accross the board, besides the price of the oil itself hovering around $5.95-6.95; so, buying on Post was a plus for me. I guess that, once I use up the 6-7 cases, that'll be my best bet for "family size" packs, so to speak. Thanks, dude.

11-15-2009, 10:16 AM	#128 (permalink)
homeslice Base Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Lilburn, GA Posts: 16 Drives: 1990 300Z Rep Power: 15	AMSOIL is a true Group IV synthetic. Most oils like Mobil, Castrol, Valvoline, Quakerstate etc. that claim to be synthetic are merely Group III synthetics, which are just hydrocracked mineral oil base stocks. AMSOIL uses true Group IV PAO (poly-alpha-olefin) and Group V (ester) base stocks. There are many oils out there that call themselves synthetic, but not all are created equal, and that's important to know. You do get what you pay for. Group III synthetic oils only use about 12% synthetic base stocks. The rest is hyrdocracked petroleum base stocks. For major oil companies who have their money in crude oil refining, the word "synthetic" is merely a marketing term. It does not mean 100%, but just that a percentage of synthetic base stock goes into their product. The oils that are commonly mentioned are Group II and Group III synthetics with the exception of Royal Purple, which is a Group V. AMSOIL is a Group IV synthetic (PAO) but also uses Group V Ester technology. It gives you the best of Group IV and Group V synthetics. Mobil 1 is a Group III synthetic. AMSOIL is a Group IV synthetic. In the late 1990s, Castrol started selling an oil made from Group III base oil and called it SynTec Full Synthetic. Mobil sued Castrol, asserting that this oil was not synthetic, but simply a highly refined petroleum oil, and therefore it was false advertising to call it synthetic. In 1999, Mobil lost their lawsuit. It was decided that the word "synthetic" was a marketing term and referred to properties, not to production methods or ingredients. Castrol continues to make SynTec out of Group III base oils, that is highly purified mineral oil with most all of the cockroach bits removed. Shortly after Mobil lost their lawsuit, most oil companies started reformulating their synthetic oils to use Group III base stocks instead of PAOs or diester stocks as their primary component. Most of the "synthetic oil" you can buy today is actually mostly made of this highly-distilled and purified dino-juice called Group III oil. Group III base oils cost about half as much as the synthetics. By using a blend of mostly Group III oils and a smaller amount of "true" synthetics, the oil companies can produce a product that has some of the same properties as the "true" synthetics, and nearly the same cost as the Group III oil. AMSOIL differs from Group III oils. As a Group IV oil, it uses 100% pure synthetic base stocks. This is why you can run it for longer intervals. Synthetic oils were originally designed for the purpose of having a very pure base oil with excellent properties. By starting from scratch and building up your oil molecules from little pieces, you can pretty much guarantee that every molecule in the oil is just like every other molecule, and therefore the properties are exactly what you designed in, not compromised by impurities. Synthetics were thus originally a reaction to the relatively poor refining processes available from about 1930 to about 1990. The original synthetics were designed for the Army Air Force in WW II. They simply could not make their high- performance turbo-charged radial engines stay alive on the available motor oils of the time. One process for making synthetic base oils is to start with a chemical called an olefin, and make new molecules by attaching them to each other in long chains, hence "poly." The primary advantage of Poly-Alpha-Olefin "PAO" base oil is that all the molecules in the base oil are pretty much identical, so it's easy to get the base oil to behave exactly as you like. PAOs are called Group IV base oils. These PAO base oils have an enormous advantage over mineral base oils in low temperature performance and in resistance to oxidation, which is critical in keeping the oil from forming acids. Another type of base oil is made from refined and processed esters and is called Group V. Esters start life as fatty acids in plants and animals, which are then chemically combined into esters, diesters, and polyesters. Group V base stocks are the most expensive of all to produce. However, the esters are polar molecules and have very significant solvent properties - an ester base oil all by itself will do a very decent job of keeping your engine clean. So, people who are serious about making a superior oil will usually mix some Group V oils into their base stock. Oils that are strictly Group V ester oils tend to be better suited for high RPM, hot running, air cooled engines. 100% ester based oils are usually more expensive than Group IV oils, and don't have the longevity of PAO (Group IV) or PAO/Ester mixes oils. Group V oils perform very well in the shorter term. They perform very well in race engines and in applications where drain intervals are factory spec or shorter, whereas Group IV oils are better suited for the long haul of extended intervals. Whatever oil you choose, know what you are buying. Just because the jug says "synthetic" doesn't mean it is made from 100% pure synthetic base stocks.

11-16-2009, 11:24 AM	#133 (permalink)
Old Chuck Base Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida & SC Posts: 86 Drives: 05 Tundra& 02 Subaru Rep Power: 16	Homeslice, Thanks for the great post. Have been trying to get these things together for a day or so and yours was timely. Great info that is not usually understood or information folks do not bother to learn. Thanks for putting it together.

11-16-2009, 11:27 AM	#134 (permalink)
j.arnaldo Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Puerto Rico Posts: 937 Drives: Nissan 350Z, 2004 Rep Power: 0	The one on sale at PepBoys!