Custom ported and CNC throttle bodies, upper and lower manifolds by Synergy Composite

mishuko · 12-04-2014, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m3chhawk

No the test is invalid because you have no control. You've tested multiple cars, on multiple dynos, on multiple days, with multiple mod iterations, and you are trying measure improvements that are within the experimental error of temperature and humidity.

Get the car setup with whatever "cheap" exhaust you would like and then all in the same day, without unstrapping the car from the dyno.
Dyno chart 1) Baseline it.
Dyno chart 2) Tune it to whatever level the tuner feels comfortable with. A combination of fuel points, timing, etc..
Dyno chart 3) Bolt your mods on. Base line it.
Dyno chart 4) Tune it to the exact same level of aggressiveness as dyno chart 2.

The differences in 2 and 4 are the impact of the mods. If the mods allow you to run more fuel or timing without knocking? Great! Want to change the exhaust again? Or add an electronic fan in the intake? Or a flux capacitor? Cool, but you have to start at dyno chart 1 again.

But until you do this or something similarly scientific, you don't have ****.

very well said on how to take a more scientifically acceptable methodology. i mean if i ran a tune on my car i'd like to dyno before/after to see the differences for AF ratios, wtq/whp, etc... plus i can actually change my sticker to reflect that +hp that happened

NeverBoneStck · 12-03-2014, 02:56 PM

So did I miss something? Is he scamming people with his parts or is a bunch of guys on here hating because they don't like his attitude?? How could anyone compare this to the GTM turbos thread is beyond me.. Did he ask for money up front??

mishuko · 12-03-2014, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeverBoneStck

So did I miss something? Is he scamming people with his parts or is a bunch of guys on here hating because they don't like his attitude?? How could anyone compare this to the GTM turbos thread is beyond me.. Did he ask for money up front??

the issue is false advertising because everyone here is wanting to see an acceptable methodology to how he is achieving these 'claimed' numbers. I say claimed because there is not solid proof.

don't get the wrong idea, this forum is one large family and we all look out for each other. we do NOT want to have another GTM incident (ie scam) to happen to our brothers and sisters hence us being very scrutinizing and critical.

there may be some previous conflicts between the OP and other users but the whole point i am going to reiterate.

We are just looking for solid proof of the results not some anecdotal evidnce.

NeverBoneStck · 12-03-2014, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mishuko

the issue is false advertising because everyone here is wanting to see an acceptable methodology to how he is achieving these 'claimed' numbers. I say claimed because there is not solid proof.

don't get the wrong idea, this forum is one large family and we all look out for each other. we do NOT want to have another GTM incident (ie scam) to happen to our brothers and sisters hence us being very scrutinizing and critical.

there may be some previous conflicts between the OP and other users but the whole point i am going to reiterate.

We are just looking for solid proof of the results not some anecdotal evidnce.

I hear ya.. Seems like he was doing fine until he became a sponsor. I am also waiting for the dynos for each one of these modified parts. Just looks like this thread is turning into s witch hunt...

secondnissan · 12-04-2014, 12:56 AM

How do some of you think his gains are tied to the tune when you have to retune. The car was knocking, not because of his parts , but because more air equals lean equals knock. Z1 even says you MUST retune with their manifold. If you don't like the guy that's fine , but at least he's thinking outside the box here instead of following the herd. These cars have been out for 6 years now and how often does someone try something new let alone dyno it and fess up when the gains aren't as good as he thought. Let him try with test pipes and a proper tune.

SlowZ · 12-04-2014, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by secondnissan

How do some of you think his gains are tied to the tune when you have to retune. The car was knocking, not because of his parts , but because more air equals lean equals knock. Z1 even says you MUST retune with their manifold. If you don't like the guy that's fine , but at least he's thinking outside the box here instead of following the herd. These cars have been out for 6 years now and how often does someone try something new let alone dyno it and fess up when the gains aren't as good as he thought. Let him try with test pipes and a proper tune.

I agree. This platform is basically shìt in terms of performance NA mods. That's why I went with a huge shot of nitrous and now I'm doing a BP kit. I commend him for thinking outside the box. Oh well if doesn't make that much power but there are also people putting full top secret/amuse/arc stuff on and are gaining the same if not less power than wayyyy cheaper stuff available.

mishuko · 12-04-2014, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlowZ

You think 320whp is "fast?!?!?"
Well i mean I guess you don't really have many options being a 7AT.
I'm not going to get into a pissing match about that so I'll stop pointless that here

hmm... anything over 300 hp is pretty beefy IMHO. there are diminishing returns though... if i had a 500whp tt monster z how much of that 500 ponies is actually useable/practicle for street use?

it's all about your application. some need it, some want it, some rather not.

i personally like NA engines characteristics so back on topic of... i look to squeeze every last ounce out via bolt ons and any other 'serious' mods that may come after the 'easy' gains are achieved.

synolimit · 12-04-2014, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m3chhawk

No the test is invalid because you have no control. You've tested multiple cars, on multiple dynos, on multiple days, with multiple mod iterations, and you are trying measure improvements that are within the experimental error of temperature and humidity.

Get the car setup with whatever "cheap" exhaust you would like and then all in the same day, without unstrapping the car from the dyno.
Dyno chart 1) Baseline it.
Dyno chart 2) Tune it to whatever level the tuner feels comfortable with. A combination of fuel points, timing, etc..
Dyno chart 3) Bolt your mods on. Base line it.
Dyno chart 4) Tune it to the exact same level of aggressiveness as dyno chart 2.

The differences in 2 and 4 are the impact of the mods. If the mods allow you to run more fuel or timing without knocking? Great! Want to change the exhaust again? Or add an electronic fan in the intake? Or a flux capacitor? Cool, but you have to start at dyno chart 1 again.

But until you do this or something similarly scientific, you don't have ****.

Lol no I haven't! I tested one car, on the 30th, period! THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WE DID AND WHAT I SAID WE'D/DID DO!!! The lack of reading posts is insane in here

He showed up
We strapped him down
We tuned like you said
We installed parts
Car knocked
We pulled a few degrees
We finished tuning ported parts

Car made 319 vs 313 and 260 vs 255. Car picked up 11hp down low and nothing mid range.

Owners buying test pipes and coming back.
We'll put his OEM stuff back on and base run.
We'll tune like you said
Put our stuff back on
Try to dyno as is
Finish tune and see increase.

synolimit · 12-04-2014, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m3chhawk

If this is exactly what you did, can I see said dyno charts with AFR's, temp, and humidity? That's all anyone is asking for..............................

How about fuel tables from UpRev? You added more air with porting and it starting knocking. What fuel compensation was made?

Yes 100%! But like I've said already a dozen times, I have no signal but on a mountain side hunting from 12/1-12/7. I asked the wife to text me pics if she can find them. She sent me mine from a week ago. Give her credit! All I have is the very first run and the very last in STD. I want to only show the parts graph and in the proper SAE that again I've already said! Correction doesn't really matter but me only having the 20/20 gain from the start of the day till the end of the day does no one any good!

That's the tuners call to post that. I'm not sure what was done but from days beginning till days end we targeted and achieved pretty much 12.5 the whole time. All I know 100% is the cars timing is WAY down vs what mine and others are. This again doesn't affect all you as the car still made good power but something's up!

If I'd of known better about the owners 08 80,000 miles g37 7at with HFCs id of never picked him as a test car. I wanted a 6mt catless but I'm committed to him now.

synolimit · 12-04-2014, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exsanity

I look forward to seeing the results.

Lol well I haven't lied to you. It's not going to be a huge shocker as I've already told everyone where and how the car made power. If someone told me they were African American I wouldn't ask for a pic. I get you all want to see it but I have a pretty photographic memory I'm tying to help with as I'm not home.

Again, run 13 after all tuned stock intake parts-313hp 255tq SAE.
After ported parts with tune run 20- 319hp 260tq SAE after about an hour with swap.
11hp from start to 4500
Zero from 4500-6500
6hp from 6500-7800

Run 2 stock base- 299hp 240tq SAE
Run 20 ported plus tune- 319hp 260tq SAE
20/20 overall

Can't be more exact than that.

jrb55gh · 12-28-2014, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott@Synergy

That's the tuners call to post that. I'm not sure what was done but from days beginning till days end we targeted and achieved pretty much 12.5 the whole time. All I know 100% is the cars timing is WAY down vs what mine and others are. This again doesn't affect all you as the car still made good power but something's up!

If I'd of known better about the owners 08 80,000 miles g37 7at with HFCs id of never picked him as a test car. I wanted a 6mt catless but I'm committed to him now.

I read your whole thread. Getting verifiable results to prove your concept with minimal investment is a tough assignment. But you did it. Thanks for all seeing it through to a usable conclusion.

I compared your 23 degree timing with the datalog on my stock 2013 7AT with ECUtek tune and noticed that my max timing at full throttle is 29 degrees. That timing does not knock on my stock 370 with clean combustion chambers. The reduced 23 degree timing required for your 80k mile test vehicle may be the result of deposits in the combustion chamber causing hot spots and/or raising the compression ratio.

Somewhere in the thread you mentioned verifying flow through the manifolds on a flow bench. That is a great idea. Some cylinders may be receiving more flow than others, running leaner and knocking. If you can adjust the porting to make the flow equal to all cylinders, you may be able to crank in more timing and unlock more power.

Zoren 370 · 12-29-2014, 06:39 AM

Sub

synolimit · 12-29-2014, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrb55gh

I read your whole thread. Getting verifiable results to prove your concept with minimal investment is a tough assignment. But you did it. Thanks for all seeing it through to a usable conclusion.

I compared your 23 degree timing with the datalog on my stock 2013 7AT with ECUtek tune and noticed that my max timing at full throttle is 29 degrees. That timing does not knock on my stock 370 with clean combustion chambers. The reduced 23 degree timing required for your 80k mile test vehicle may be the result of deposits in the combustion chamber causing hot spots and/or raising the compression ratio.

Somewhere in the thread you mentioned verifying flow through the manifolds on a flow bench. That is a great idea. Some cylinders may be receiving more flow than others, running leaner and knocking. If you can adjust the porting to make the flow equal to all cylinders, you may be able to crank in more timing and unlock more power.

That's a good point. If I'd of known more about the testers car I wouldn't have picked him. To much away from what I wanted.

The flow bench testing is done. I'll find out all of the info soon and maybe have Shawn chime in and talk about it.

Rusty · 12-04-2014, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPenvy

too bad you never take the Z anywhere or i'd say come up for some lol

i'll be out Saturday for my yearly "harvest"

Going out west next year for some elk. My two sons and grandson each got an elk this year.

synolimit · 12-04-2014, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njobe89

for someone that claims to have limited reception... you sure don't have a problem posting here and posting pics 0.o

My tree stand and hill are couple thousand feet up. I hunt from sun up till sun down minus lunch. It also takes a good few minutes to open pages and navigate screens. I'm in my truck now parked on a hill side doing all this and wife just sent pics of just the parts added with tune.

PS that deer was shot 20 feet from my stand. Hence the ability.

Loading pics now. May take a min.

12-03-2014, 02:56 PM	#2 (permalink)
NeverBoneStck A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Beaverton, Or Posts: 1,110 Drives: 2008 G37 S Rep Power: 18	So did I miss something? Is he scamming people with his parts or is a bunch of guys on here hating because they don't like his attitude?? How could anyone compare this to the GTM turbos thread is beyond me.. Did he ask for money up front?? __________________ Juiced! That is all you need to know !!

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12-04-2014, 12:56 AM	#5 (permalink)
secondnissan Base Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: chicago burbs Posts: 70 Drives: 10 370z 7at Rep Power: 15	How do some of you think his gains are tied to the tune when you have to retune. The car was knocking, not because of his parts , but because more air equals lean equals knock. Z1 even says you MUST retune with their manifold. If you don't like the guy that's fine , but at least he's thinking outside the box here instead of following the herd. These cars have been out for 6 years now and how often does someone try something new let alone dyno it and fess up when the gains aren't as good as he thought. Let him try with test pipes and a proper tune.

12-29-2014, 06:39 AM	#12 (permalink)
Zoren 370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: FL Posts: 11,018 Drives: 11 Nissan 370 M6 Rep Power: 1913654	Sub