Fast Intentions Stage 2 TT build by MA-Motorsports.

Spooler · 09-03-2022, 03:02 PM

I have known for quite some time about Chris Forsburg's stuggles with the VQ. It's not new to me. When I lifted the heads and torched my first motor Brian and I had a discussion about it. Brian and Chris are tight since MA was the home shop for him when he was based on the east coast. I tried the Mazworx engine and it held for a little bit until I got greedy with the HP. My Mazworx motor is not toast, it just needs the headgaskets replaced. I can drive it around and it won't overheat. It still holds boost without pushing water if I keep the boost turned down. I have a few other issues I am working on right now I need to fix. I'll leave it at that.

gbrettin · 09-07-2022, 10:35 AM

SteveVQ · 09-07-2022, 01:41 PM

I feel the VHR VQ's sweet spot for power and reliability is around 750whp to 800whp, that's after being full built as well.

If you want more and want to be reliable I think a VR38 swap is the way to go or obviously a nasty boosted v8.

If I keep the Z and don't go to a 2023 Supra with a 6MT when they release, the VR38 swap will probably be the route I'll take.

Last I heard used VR38's are only around $10k now (correct me if wrong) and even in stock form the VR38 can take more power than even a built VQ.

If and when I start chasing big power for the Z, the VR would be my goto.

phunk · 09-07-2022, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveVQ

Last I heard used VR38's are only around $10k now (correct me if wrong) and even in stock form the VR38 can take more power than even a built VQ.

I think they will run more than that cost wise.. Nissan has been skyrocketing the price of VR38 parts the last year, which should be driving up the used engine prices too since less people will just build all new ones now. They can handle around 825-850rwhp stock but not forever... mine lasted about 2 years like that in my GTR before bending a rod. Though the GTR will load the engine up much more often with the AWD, and perhaps in a Z it may go a lot longer.

Spooler · 09-07-2022, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveVQ

I feel the VHR VQ's sweet spot for power and reliability is around 750whp to 800whp, that's after being full built as well.

If you want more and want to be reliable I think a VR38 swap is the way to go or obviously a nasty boosted v8.

If I keep the Z and don't go to a 2023 Supra with a 6MT when they release, the VR38 swap will probably be the route I'll take.

Last I heard used VR38's are only around $10k now (correct me if wrong) and even in stock form the VR38 can take more power than even a built VQ.

If and when I start chasing big power for the Z, the VR would be my goto.

Last I checked a VR38 junkyard longblock was 14-17k for a good one. The motors can't be bored so if it is fubar, a new block will be needed.

Spooler · 09-07-2022, 02:43 PM

I am still not sure what I am going to do yet. If a VR38 was only 10k I would have already had one sitting at MA.

SteveVQ · 09-07-2022, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spooler

I am still not sure what I am going to do yet. If a VR38 was only 10k I would have already had one sitting at MA.

Hate to say it bro. But, you have one of the best platforms for power and speed in your garage already. You already know you would have an absolute monster if you dumped the money into "that" instead.

Still, I totally get wanting to have something very fast that was never intended to be very fast. Plus, like you mentioned months ago, nothing drives like a Z and it's true the Z is one of the best drivers car out there. It's a shame Nissan took a motor out of the parts bin to stuff inside it.

If only Nissan designed an all new VQVHR with a closed deck back in 2009, it would be a different ball game altogether for our platform right now.

Seems like a VR38 is the only way to meet your hp/reliability goals.

Spooler · 09-07-2022, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveVQ

Hate to say it bro. But, you have one of the best platforms for power and speed in your garage already. You already know you would have an absolute monster if you dumped the money into "that" instead.

Still, I totally get wanting to have something very fast that was never intended to be very fast. Plus, like you mentioned months ago, nothing drives like a Z and it's true the Z is one of the best drivers car out there. It's a shame Nissan took a motor out of the parts bin to stuff inside it.

If only Nissan designed an all new VQVHR with a closed deck back in 2009, it would be a different ball game altogether for our platform right now.

Seems like a VR38 is the only way to meet your hp/reliability goals.

A twin turbo LS is damn tempting.

Oh yeah, that is my wife's car. I am not allowed to touch it via upgrades. She likes it just the way it is. I am fine with that.

Spooler · 09-08-2022, 01:45 PM

I think I am going to optimze the hell out my car to run 22psi of boost or lower. Install a dry sump so I can track the car if I want and not have to worry about oil temps. I am too far in to change directions.

Spooler · 09-14-2022, 08:03 PM

The wife is pissed about me even considering putting a VQ back in my car. She says I would blow it up again. End of story. She is right. So, No more VQ. Wait and see which way I go.

cv129 · 09-15-2022, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spooler

The wife is pissed about me even considering putting a VQ back in my car. She says I would blow it up again. End of story. She is right. So, No more VQ. Wait and see which way I go.

“You are not going to be happy unless you are going Mach 2 with your hair on fire”

Your will never be at peace if you feel like you’ve settled for a lower goal, especially when it’s because a shop not delivering.

If you can truly be ok with 800whp, pls by all mean save the money. But if there remains an itch, you will end up scratching it….

Good luck sir

hell of a car either way

Note: Lol we talk about 800whp like it’s some kind of unloved step child here

Spooler · 09-15-2022, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cv129

“You are not going to be happy unless you are going Mach 2 with your hair on fire”

Your will never be at peace if you feel like you’ve settled for a lower goal, especially when it’s because a shop not delivering.

If you can truly be ok with 800whp, pls by all mean save the money. But if there remains an itch, you will end up scratching it….

Good luck sir

hell of a car either way

Note: Lol we talk about 800whp like it’s some kind of unloved step child here

We just can't make it reliable with the VQ. I could try again but the odds of failing again are against me. Why waste the money only to have the heads lift again. SOHO motor, that's a hell no. Only way I would even consider installing one is if they gave it to me for free and Nick dang sure wouldn't tune it. My current tune is trash.

cv129 · 09-15-2022, 09:30 AM

Going your definition of “VROOM VROOM” does start “VR”….haha.

SeeThruHead · 09-15-2022, 11:13 AM

is 1000hp really worth it. So much trouble. So much money. Always worrying the engine is going to pop it's gasket.

And at the end of the day can the car even best a 500hp GT3 or Viper ACR X on the track...

Just doesn't seem worth it. Doesn't even seem like it would be fun to drive either...

DaveZ03 · 09-15-2022, 11:35 AM

Despite best efforts and big budgets, at that power level, you are always gonna break something and go back to the drawing board. Further complicating the matter is you are forcing air into an engine that wasn't designed with FI in mind, and that wasn't anything special to begin with. Sure it can take some FI, but once you go over a certain power level, unsurprisingly and despite best efforts, things are gonna start to break and the car will be less and less reliable. I'm sorry to say Spooler, but this attempt to make this engine reliable at anything close to your power goals was a long shot, and you went deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole with potential solutions. It would have been great if you actually discovered a "secret" to making this engine reliable and I commend you for that effort, but the money you have sunk into this to get here ($140k as you mentioned earlier in this thread) is an unfortunate casualty of war. Where you go from here is up to you honestly, but for what it's worth, my advice would be to turn it down and just enjoy what you have. Sometimes less is more.

09-07-2022, 01:41 PM	#3 (permalink)
SteveVQ Base Member Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Florida Posts: 221 Drives: '23 Camaro 1SS 6MT Rep Power: 52839	I feel the VHR VQ's sweet spot for power and reliability is around 750whp to 800whp, that's after being full built as well. If you want more and want to be reliable I think a VR38 swap is the way to go or obviously a nasty boosted v8. If I keep the Z and don't go to a 2023 Supra with a 6MT when they release, the VR38 swap will probably be the route I'll take. Last I heard used VR38's are only around $10k now (correct me if wrong) and even in stock form the VR38 can take more power than even a built VQ. If and when I start chasing big power for the Z, the VR would be my goto. __________________ '23 Camaro 1SS 6MT '19 Camaro 1SS 6MT (Totaled by Red Light Runner) '13 370Z Sport/Touring 6MT 328whp (Sold) Last edited by SteveVQ; 09-07-2022 at 01:43 PM.

09-15-2022, 09:30 AM	#13 (permalink)
cv129 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,262 Drives: 09 Nismo, 16 Nismo Rep Power: 163995	Going your definition of “VROOM VROOM” does start “VR”….haha. __________________ Setrab \| RE-71 \| SPL \| JRZ \| Nismo \| ARK \| Whiteline \| RacingBrake \| CJM Oil Pan \| Ti shield

09-15-2022, 11:13 AM	#14 (permalink)
SeeThruHead Track Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Toronto Posts: 716 Drives: Red '18 Sport Manual Rep Power: 23498	is 1000hp really worth it. So much trouble. So much money. Always worrying the engine is going to pop it's gasket. And at the end of the day can the car even best a 500hp GT3 or Viper ACR X on the track... Just doesn't seem worth it. Doesn't even seem like it would be fun to drive either... __________________ My Build thread STH Build Plan Thread Images too big fix here

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09-03-2022, 03:02 PM	#1 (permalink)
Spooler A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Ga Posts: 14,000 Drives: 2013 Nismo 370z Rep Power: 2684393	I have known for quite some time about Chris Forsburg's stuggles with the VQ. It's not new to me. When I lifted the heads and torched my first motor Brian and I had a discussion about it. Brian and Chris are tight since MA was the home shop for him when he was based on the east coast. I tried the Mazworx engine and it held for a little bit until I got greedy with the HP. My Mazworx motor is not toast, it just needs the headgaskets replaced. I can drive it around and it won't overheat. It still holds boost without pushing water if I keep the boost turned down. I have a few other issues I am working on right now I need to fix. I'll leave it at that.

09-07-2022, 10:35 AM	#2 (permalink)
gbrettin A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Portage, MI Posts: 2,295 Drives: Tricycle Rep Power: 589151

09-07-2022, 02:43 PM	#6 (permalink)
Spooler A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Ga Posts: 14,000 Drives: 2013 Nismo 370z Rep Power: 2684393	I am still not sure what I am going to do yet. If a VR38 was only 10k I would have already had one sitting at MA.

09-08-2022, 01:45 PM	#9 (permalink)
Spooler A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Ga Posts: 14,000 Drives: 2013 Nismo 370z Rep Power: 2684393	I think I am going to optimze the hell out my car to run 22psi of boost or lower. Install a dry sump so I can track the car if I want and not have to worry about oil temps. I am too far in to change directions.

09-14-2022, 08:03 PM	#10 (permalink)
Spooler A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Ga Posts: 14,000 Drives: 2013 Nismo 370z Rep Power: 2684393	The wife is pissed about me even considering putting a VQ back in my car. She says I would blow it up again. End of story. She is right. So, No more VQ. Wait and see which way I go.

09-15-2022, 11:35 AM	#15 (permalink)
DaveZ03 Base Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Kentucky Posts: 235 Drives: '11 FairladyZ Rep Power: 51860	Despite best efforts and big budgets, at that power level, you are always gonna break something and go back to the drawing board. Further complicating the matter is you are forcing air into an engine that wasn't designed with FI in mind, and that wasn't anything special to begin with. Sure it can take some FI, but once you go over a certain power level, unsurprisingly and despite best efforts, things are gonna start to break and the car will be less and less reliable. I'm sorry to say Spooler, but this attempt to make this engine reliable at anything close to your power goals was a long shot, and you went deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole with potential solutions. It would have been great if you actually discovered a "secret" to making this engine reliable and I commend you for that effort, but the money you have sunk into this to get here ($140k as you mentioned earlier in this thread) is an unfortunate casualty of war. Where you go from here is up to you honestly, but for what it's worth, my advice would be to turn it down and just enjoy what you have. Sometimes less is more.