RJ MFG Supercharger kit Feeler...

bullitt5897 · 03-03-2017, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

I wasn't going to amuse that comment to derail the thread but since we went here... Ill just put down the complete facts so it is out there.

The stillen kit is more difficult to make power and will max out. The PD blower will make that power out of the box and sounds like it can make into the 600's with some additional cooling and fuel mods for more money.

Stillen kit = $6500 new
A2A w/ Tial = $1700
Ecutek and Map sensor = $400
Si trim = $400
9psi pulley = $120
Return kit = $750

Total = Just under $10k

RJM kit = Just under $10k
+
Hood = $?
Shipping for hood = $?
Paint hood = $400 to $700
Look of hood = ?

If I had a choice I would go with the PD blower....once it is proven.

Why? Power capability of up to 600+whp (tbd) and because I have had both systems and I prefer how the PD performs over a centri blower. However, some people like the linear power band of a centri. Also, some people like others to know they are supercharged. The centri with that Tial will for sure let people around you know. Others get annoyed by it.

Personally, the whine of a PD blower under WOT is what does it for me though.

I understand where you are coming from. But lets break this down... Not to be combative but to critically look at the argument.

Stillen kit = $6500 new *This is the tuner kit and thus only comes as a bare minimum. This isn't an apples to apples comparison. More accurately would be to compare turn key to turn key kits Stillen starting at $7100 on sale from $8200
A2A w/ Tial = $1700
Ecutek and Map sensor = $400 *More like $450 after all said and done just for parts... Now you have to factor in a retune ~$800-$1000 for a decent tuner
Si trim = $400 *For the Si trim now you have to factor in labor... so there is a couple more hundred dollars added.
9psi pulley = $120
Return kit = $750 *now you have to ditch the fuel system from the stillen kit to upgrade to one that will handle 500+whp... That means bigger injectors and return system... More than $1000+

Total = Just under $10k * A realistic total would be well into the $12k+ range... And a hacked up kit to make it do what they promised from the get go!

RJM kit = for sake of argument $9,999.00 MSRP *Turn Key! no changes needed no upgrades needed... simplicity in its finest.

OPTIONAL:
Hood = ~$600 (FRP) Optional yeah you can buy the hood or cut the factory one...
Shipping for hood = ~$180
Paint hood = $400 to $700
Look of hood = I am doing the design so it isn't going to be half assed or ugly. If I wouldn't put it on my car you can be sure I wont send it to molds...

Here are some other things you guys haven't taken into account...
-Cost of manufacturing. (I can tell you the RJM kit costs probably double if not more than the stillen kit to make.)
-Quality components: stillen uses cast parts where as RJM is all billet. Also the water pump alone for the RJM kit costs $500 and has a life of over 3400+ hours!!! It will last longer than the water pump in your motor! think about that... The guys at RJM want the kit to last longer than your car!
-Ease of installation RJM wants the everyday DIY guy to be able to install this in his garage.
-As you mentioned Scalability. Yes they could have built a cheaper kit. but that leaves you in the same situation as GAMMA and STILLEN buying all these parts to make them do what they advertised to do. RJM are a bunch of VQ owners they know what you guys want and I can tell you the difference between stage 1 and stage 2 is not much $$$... They built this kit for you to grow into not have to replace everything...

I know this because I am on their development calls and meetings. I am often the voice of the forums and if you guys bring something up it is most definitely heard in the development meetings. They have them every week... Yes the hood is a concern and they have been 3D printing like mad men to mock everything up. They have talked about adjustable motor mounts or new motor mounts but that goes down the slippery slope of adding more cost overall... Because now the every day guy cant install it in his garage... Honestly from all the input they have taken plus the preliminary flow testing you guys are going to be pleasantly surprised.

TopgunZ · 03-06-2017, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

I understand where you are coming from. But lets break this down... Not to be combative but to critically look at the argument.

Stillen kit = $6500 new *This is the tuner kit and thus only comes as a bare minimum. This isn't an apples to apples comparison. More accurately would be to compare turn key to turn key kits Stillen starting at $7100 on sale from $8200
A2A w/ Tial = $1700
Ecutek and Map sensor = $400 *More like $450 after all said and done just for parts... Now you have to factor in a retune ~$800-$1000 for a decent tuner
Si trim = $400 *For the Si trim now you have to factor in labor... so there is a couple more hundred dollars added.
9psi pulley = $120
Return kit = $750 *now you have to ditch the fuel system from the stillen kit to upgrade to one that will handle 500+whp... That means bigger injectors and return system... More than $1000+

Total = Just under $10k * A realistic total would be well into the $12k+ range... And a hacked up kit to make it do what they promised from the get go!

RJM kit = for sake of argument $9,999.00 MSRP *Turn Key! no changes needed no upgrades needed... simplicity in its finest.

OPTIONAL:
Hood = ~$600 (FRP) Optional yeah you can buy the hood or cut the factory one...
Shipping for hood = ~$180
Paint hood = $400 to $700
Look of hood = I am doing the design so it isn't going to be half assed or ugly. If I wouldn't put it on my car you can be sure I wont send it to molds...

Here are some other things you guys haven't taken into account...
-Cost of manufacturing. (I can tell you the RJM kit costs probably double if not more than the stillen kit to make.)
-Quality components: stillen uses cast parts where as RJM is all billet. Also the water pump alone for the RJM kit costs $500 and has a life of over 3400+ hours!!! It will last longer than the water pump in your motor! think about that... The guys at RJM want the kit to last longer than your car!
-Ease of installation RJM wants the everyday DIY guy to be able to install this in his garage.
-As you mentioned Scalability. Yes they could have built a cheaper kit. but that leaves you in the same situation as GAMMA and STILLEN buying all these parts to make them do what they advertised to do. RJM are a bunch of VQ owners they know what you guys want and I can tell you the difference between stage 1 and stage 2 is not much $$$... They built this kit for you to grow into not have to replace everything...

I know this because I am on their development calls and meetings. I am often the voice of the forums and if you guys bring something up it is most definitely heard in the development meetings. They have them every week... Yes the hood is a concern and they have been 3D printing like mad men to mock everything up. They have talked about adjustable motor mounts or new motor mounts but that goes down the slippery slope of adding more cost overall... Because now the every day guy cant install it in his garage... Honestly from all the input they have taken plus the preliminary flow testing you guys are going to be pleasantly surprised.

Are you saying you dont have to tune the RJM kit? So you dont have to add your $800 to $1000 to it? and come on, $800 to $1000 for a tune? Who does your tuning, Jesus himself?

Jayhovah · 03-06-2017, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

Are you saying you dont have to tune the RJM kit? So you dont have to add your $800 to $1000 to it? and come on, $800 to $1000 for a tune? Who does your tuning, Jesus himself?

I spent 850 on my tune at JTRAN - but that included an Ecutek license.

milkcow500 · 03-06-2017, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

Are you saying you dont have to tune the RJM kit? So you dont have to add your $800 to $1000 to it? and come on, $800 to $1000 for a tune? Who does your tuning, Jesus himself?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

I understand where you are coming from. But lets break this down... Not to be combative but to critically look at the argument.

Stillen kit = $6500 new *This is the tuner kit and thus only comes as a bare minimum. This isn't an apples to apples comparison. More accurately would be to compare turn key to turn key kits Stillen starting at $7100 on sale from $8200
A2A w/ Tial = $1700
Ecutek and Map sensor = $400 *More like $450 after all said and done just for parts... Now you have to factor in a retune ~$800-$1000 for a decent tuner
Si trim = $400 *For the Si trim now you have to factor in labor... so there is a couple more hundred dollars added.
9psi pulley = $120
Return kit = $750 *now you have to ditch the fuel system from the stillen kit to upgrade to one that will handle 500+whp... That means bigger injectors and return system... More than $1000+

Total = Just under $10k * A realistic total would be well into the $12k+ range... And a hacked up kit to make it do what they promised from the get go!

RJM kit = for sake of argument $9,999.00 MSRP *Turn Key! no changes needed no upgrades needed... simplicity in its finest.

OPTIONAL:
Hood = ~$600 (FRP) Optional yeah you can buy the hood or cut the factory one...
Shipping for hood = ~$180
Paint hood = $400 to $700
Look of hood = I am doing the design so it isn't going to be half assed or ugly. If I wouldn't put it on my car you can be sure I wont send it to molds...

Here are some other things you guys haven't taken into account...
-Cost of manufacturing. (I can tell you the RJM kit costs probably double if not more than the stillen kit to make.)
-Quality components: stillen uses cast parts where as RJM is all billet. Also the water pump alone for the RJM kit costs $500 and has a life of over 3400+ hours!!! It will last longer than the water pump in your motor! think about that... The guys at RJM want the kit to last longer than your car!
-Ease of installation RJM wants the everyday DIY guy to be able to install this in his garage.
-As you mentioned Scalability. Yes they could have built a cheaper kit. but that leaves you in the same situation as GAMMA and STILLEN buying all these parts to make them do what they advertised to do. RJM are a bunch of VQ owners they know what you guys want and I can tell you the difference between stage 1 and stage 2 is not much $$$... They built this kit for you to grow into not have to replace everything...

I know this because I am on their development calls and meetings. I am often the voice of the forums and if you guys bring something up it is most definitely heard in the development meetings. They have them every week... Yes the hood is a concern and they have been 3D printing like mad men to mock everything up. They have talked about adjustable motor mounts or new motor mounts but that goes down the slippery slope of adding more cost overall... Because now the every day guy cant install it in his garage... Honestly from all the input they have taken plus the preliminary flow testing you guys are going to be pleasantly surprised.

Road tune - ~300
Dyno tune - ~500
Flex fuel tune - ~800

You can actually grab a brand new stillen kit for under their asking price if you make a few calls (~5500).

You can also do what the Q50 guys are doing and hit 500whp on the stock kit with just upgraded injectors, frozen boost upgrade, and air filter replacement.

BP kit is still bae though, but no love for 7at.

TopgunZ · 03-06-2017, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkcow500

Road tune - ~300
Dyno tune - ~500
Flex fuel tune - ~800

You can actually grab a brand new stillen kit for under their asking price if you make a few calls (~5500).

You can also do what the Q50 guys are doing and hit 500whp on the stock kit with just upgraded injectors, frozen boost upgrade, and air filter replacement.

BP kit is still bae though, but no love for 7at.

I wonder if the Q50 guys are going to chime in here in about a year when they fry their piston rings or worse. Do any Q50 guys track their sedans? Then less...

Is there even one guy measuring his IAT's after the intercooler (if you can call it that) in the manifold?

Anyways...back on topic.

milkcow500 · 03-06-2017, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

I wonder if the Q50 guys are going to chime in here in about a year when they fry their piston rings or worse. Do any Q50 guys track their sedans? Then less...

Is there even one guy measuring his IAT's after the plenum?

Anyways...back on topic.

Haha I wonder that as well. Eric is still running no filter @575whp and only had a head gasket issue so far in 50k miles. Not sure how many of those miles were at that power level though, but the q50 guys are crazy

TopgunZ · 03-06-2017, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkcow500

Haha I wonder that as well. Eric is still running no filter @575whp and only had a head gasket issue so far in 50k miles. Not sure how many of those miles were at that power level though, but the q50 guys are crazy

Yeah, he just did this about a year ago so he maybe put on 15K miles on a low mileage car = blown head gasket. Fun... And just wait till he finds out how much damage to an engine occures without a filter.

ChaseZ · 03-06-2017, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkcow500

Haha I wonder that as well. Eric is still running no filter @575whp and only had a head gasket issue so far in 50k miles. Not sure how many of those miles were at that power level though, but the q50 guys are crazy

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

Yeah, he just did this about a year ago so he maybe put on 15K miles on a low mileage car = blown head gasket. Fun... And just wait till he finds out how much damage to an engine occures without a filter.

If that's the one I'm thinking of he was at 525whp with a filter for tracking it. Sounds like the same one to me anyhow.

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